GUILTY LA - Jaren Lockhart, 22, New Orleans, 5 June 2012 - #6

[reedus23]

exactly!

IMO she's just trying to set up an insanity defense down the road in the event she is charged and there is some evidence that prevents her from denying she did it in the first place. To me though, that's just the thinking of someone who doesn't know better. Insanity cases are actually rarely raised and when raised are actually rarely successful. Good luck with that.

 

[Clodumbo]

Or even before that when Jaren's name was released and she never thought to stop and tell LE "Hey! I know her and me and TS were with her." I think an innocent person would have told LE that much so they can narrow their search. It would also, presumably, give LE another place to inquire if they were innocent. (i.e. We dropped her off at McDonald's...then LE could pull tape and question people at McDonald's). JMO on a very hypothetical scenario.

I am guessing that the reasons why they did not tell LE was because:
A. They are guilty of killing Jaren.
B. They did not want LE to know that TS was a fugitive sex offender.
C. They had illegal drugs in their possession at the time.
D. All of the above!

 

[Breazy]

Thinking of Jaren and TRYING to patiently wait for justice! lease:

Don't post much but read a bunch and have been following Jaren since the get go. Love reading all your thought provoking posts. :rocker:

 

[reedus23]

I am guessing that the reasons why they did not tell LE was because:
A. They are guilty of killing Jaren.
B. They did not want LE to know that TS was a fugitive sex offender.
C. They had illegal drugs in their possession at the time.
D. All of the above!

I think they're guilty of all of the above. But, I'm trying to find a legitimate reason on why MAS would not have gone to LE when she first heard of Jaren's murder. She cannot use B as an excuse because apparently she claims she didn't know about that, thus the reason those charges were dropped. It can't be C because she could have left the drugs at home and went to LE and talked to them. The only logical reason she never, at no point, went to LE and told them she was with Jaren was because of A, she was involved in killing her.

 

[reedus23]

In a way, MAS's statements that she doesn't remember anything from that night actually plays into LE's hand if you think about it. She is now locked into a story and if LE comes up with or already has more evidence about that evening/morning, MAS is in no position to refute it because she has already "gone on record" so to say that she doesn't remember anything. For example, let's say a witness says they saw MAS and TS with Jaren heading to a remote area. MAS can no longer say, no, it wasn't me because I was at my sisters. And if she does, well the more stories you tell the more it implies guilt. So really, for me, it's a win/win situation for the DA because now the only thing believable that can come out of her mouth is a confession.

 

[Clodumbo]

I think they're guilty of all of the above. But, I'm trying to find a legitimate reason on why MAS would not have gone to LE when she first heard of Jaren's murder. She cannot use B as an excuse because apparently she claims she didn't know about that, thus the reason those charges were dropped. It can't be C because she could have left the drugs at home and went to LE and talked to them. The only logical reason she never, at no point, went to LE and told them she was with Jaren was because of A, she was involved in killing her.

I had actually said "they" not she.... and at that time MAS & TS were a team.

Au contraire in regards to - B. Theydid not want LE to know that TS was a fugitive sex offender.

During the Loranger traffic stop, TS presented the officer with false identification and then ran across a field and into woods beside the road, where officers apprehended him. MAS identified TS as her husband, “Allen,” then MAS yelled to TS by calling him “David,” while he was running. Then MAS told officers that she knew TS had “a history or a warrant” in NC. I don't know why those charges were dropped. I'm guessing "Papa Sanchez" and her lawyers had something to do with her release.

 

[Clodumbo]

IMO she's just trying to set up an insanity defense down the road in the event she is charged and there is some evidence that prevents her from denying she did it in the first place. To me though, that's just the thinking of someone who doesn't know better. Insanity cases are actually rarely raised and when raised are actually rarely successful. Good luck with that.

Of course MAS can play the insanity defense.

"Sanchez and the Metairie woman became friends in May of 2011 after meeting at Louisiana Specialty Hospital where the woman said they were treated for bipolar disorder."

Source: http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-jarensuspectsmetairie-070412,0,3318481.story

MAS on the "Final Witness Show" talking about Addie Hall.

"Addie was out of her Lithium, she said there was no way she was going to be able to afford her medication. When you're bipolar, if it's untreated; it gets worse."

How did MAS know that Addie was on Lithium medication? Interesting!
She seems to know a lot about being bipolar.

 

[SwampMama]

Little Miss MAS seems to have more stories than "Grimm's Fairy Tales" only her stories aren't as believable as Grimm's.

I have been aggravated that it is taking so much time to charge her but I see that LE is giving her enough rope and time to hang herself. Her own words and stories will be what trips her up in the end.

The "I can't remember because I had food poisoning" won't fly because food poisoning doesn't cause amnesia and she was quite perky on the video with Jaren. Surely she remembers when she was at the club so what was her reason for picking up Jaren?

So just when did her "amnesia" begin?

If she is so innocent then why would she be so casually strolling the French Quarter now. Is she and TS are innocent then isn't she terrified that the "real killer" is out there and may come after her? Of course she isn't because she knows the guilty ones are her and TS.

 

[Ms. Shagwell]

"Of course MAS can play the insanity defense."

"Sanchez and the Metairie woman became friends in May of 2011 after meeting at Louisiana Specialty Hospital where the woman said they were treated for bipolar disorder."

Source: http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-jarensuspectsmetairie-070412,0,3318481.story

MAS on the "Final Witness Show" talking about Addie Hall.

"Addie was out of her Lithium, she said there was no way she was going to be able to afford her medication. When you're bipolar, if it's untreated; it gets worse."

IIRC- It has been reported on several occasions that MAS was/is bipolar and had been on medication as recently as earlier this year when she went for treatment at the same location as the woman whose house she and TS stayed at when they dyed their hair. If she is on medication for a bipolar disorder, then her memory loss might not be as unbelievable as we are suspecting. A quick Google search pointed out that Lithium treatment does have memory loss side effects. Mix in any stimulants and/or depressants, and the effects are magnified. Also, I read a couple of reports that said when a patient is in a manic or psychotic state, as when meds are not taken properly, memory loss can occur and can be a total loss if extreme.

I'm starting to wonder again, if drugs and alcohol use (whether at a private party with Jaren, MAS, and TS, as was implied by other dancers, or at a much larger gathering) resulted in Jaren possibly overdosing and MAS and TS panicking because now they were in possession of a dead body that they could not take back to NOLA. Knowing that the recent questionable death of Hillary Moulder could somehow be tied to them, or that their drug connections could put them at risk of an even greater threat from their suppliers, the two decided they would cover for each other to any extent- whether they remembered exactly what happened or not. If Jaren did OD, would a stab wound to the chest have made the rest of the horrible crime any easier to commit, by making sure she was definitely not still alive and possibly lessening blood loss during the dismembering??

I just realized I'm typing in the middle of a quote and have messed up this long post. Sorry!

 

[reedus23]

I had actually said "they" not she.... and at that time MAS & TS were a team.

Au contraire in regards to - B. Theydid not want LE to know that TS was a fugitive sex offender.

During the Loranger traffic stop, TS presented the officer with false identification and then ran across a field and into woods beside the road, where officers apprehended him. MAS identified TS as her husband, “Allen,” then MAS yelled to TS by calling him “David,” while he was running. Then MAS told officers that she knew TS had “a history or a warrant” in NC. I don't know why those charges were dropped. I'm guessing "Papa Sanchez" and her lawyers had something to do with her release.

First, I think we're on the same page. Before I try to explain what I'm saying, let me first say I don't buy a single thing MAS says.

Having said that, all I was saying is MAS really was doing herself no good by denying knowledge of the sex offender status. If she didn't know about that, then why didn't she go to LE? So by making that claim, she's eliminating a reason other than the murder for why she didn't go to LE. I don't know if that makes any sense. Like I said, I don't buy her stories. I just don't think she's as smart as she thinks she is and was showing how even her lies can be turned back and used against her even if you don't have proof of the lie itself.

Regarding the dropping of those charges, that's actually a difficult case to prove. You have to prove knowledge and that's tough. Admitting to knowledge of a history or warrants aren't enough. I have little doubt myself she knew damn well but proving it is another story.

 

[reedus23]

Of course MAS can play the insanity defense.

"Sanchez and the Metairie woman became friends in May of 2011 after meeting at Louisiana Specialty Hospital where the woman said they were treated for bipolar disorder."

Source: http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-jarensuspectsmetairie-070412,0,3318481.story

MAS on the "Final Witness Show" talking about Addie Hall.

"Addie was out of her Lithium, she said there was no way she was going to be able to afford her medication. When you're bipolar, if it's untreated; it gets worse."

How did MAS know that Addie was on Lithium medication? Interesting!
She seems to know a lot about being bipolar.

Thanks Clodumbo. And I can only hope she believes that bipolar equates to being legally insane. Rude awakening if so. Again, working on the assumption that that is true, she's not as smart as she thinks.

 

[reedus23]

"Of course MAS can play the insanity defense."

"Sanchez and the Metairie woman became friends in May of 2011 after meeting at Louisiana Specialty Hospital where the woman said they were treated for bipolar disorder."

Source: http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-jarensuspectsmetairie-070412,0,3318481.story

MAS on the "Final Witness Show" talking about Addie Hall.

"Addie was out of her Lithium, she said there was no way she was going to be able to afford her medication. When you're bipolar, if it's untreated; it gets worse."

IIRC- It has been reported on several occasions that MAS was/is bipolar and had been on medication as recently as earlier this year when she went for treatment at the same location as the woman whose house she and TS stayed at when they dyed their hair. If she is on medication for a bipolar disorder, then her memory loss might not be as unbelievable as we are suspecting. A quick Google search pointed out that Lithium treatment does have memory loss side effects. Mix in any stimulants and/or depressants, and the effects are magnified. Also, I read a couple of reports that said when a patient is in a manic or psychotic state, as when meds are not taken properly, memory loss can occur and can be a total loss if extreme.

I'm starting to wonder again, if drugs and alcohol use (whether at a private party with Jaren, MAS, and TS, as was implied by other dancers, or at a much larger gathering) resulted in Jaren possibly overdosing and MAS and TS panicking because now they were in possession of a dead body that they could not take back to NOLA. Knowing that the recent questionable death of Hillary Moulder could somehow be tied to them, or that their drug connections could put them at risk of an even greater threat from their suppliers, the two decided they would cover for each other to any extent- whether they remembered exactly what happened or not. If Jaren did OD, would a stab wound to the chest have made the rest of the horrible crime any easier to commit, by making sure she was definitely not still alive and possibly lessening blood loss during the dismembering??

I just realized I'm typing in the middle of a quote and have messed up this long post. Sorry!

Good information. Thanks. My question: It is my understanding that in some instances a medical examiner can determine if a stab wound was pre or post mortem. Would that be true in this instance? Or does the dismembering eliminate the ability to determine that or am I just flat out wrong? TIA

 

[HeinekenMan]

"Of course MAS can play the insanity defense."

"Sanchez and the Metairie woman became friends in May of 2011 after meeting at Louisiana Specialty Hospital where the woman said they were treated for bipolar disorder."

Source: http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-jarensuspectsmetairie-070412,0,3318481.story

MAS on the "Final Witness Show" talking about Addie Hall.

"Addie was out of her Lithium, she said there was no way she was going to be able to afford her medication. When you're bipolar, if it's untreated; it gets worse."

IIRC- It has been reported on several occasions that MAS was/is bipolar and had been on medication as recently as earlier this year when she went for treatment at the same location as the woman whose house she and TS stayed at when they dyed their hair. If she is on medication for a bipolar disorder, then her memory loss might not be as unbelievable as we are suspecting. A quick Google search pointed out that Lithium treatment does have memory loss side effects. Mix in any stimulants and/or depressants, and the effects are magnified. Also, I read a couple of reports that said when a patient is in a manic or psychotic state, as when meds are not taken properly, memory loss can occur and can be a total loss if extreme.

I'm starting to wonder again, if drugs and alcohol use (whether at a private party with Jaren, MAS, and TS, as was implied by other dancers, or at a much larger gathering) resulted in Jaren possibly overdosing and MAS and TS panicking because now they were in possession of a dead body that they could not take back to NOLA. Knowing that the recent questionable death of Hillary Moulder could somehow be tied to them, or that their drug connections could put them at risk of an even greater threat from their suppliers, the two decided they would cover for each other to any extent- whether they remembered exactly what happened or not. If Jaren did OD, would a stab wound to the chest have made the rest of the horrible crime any easier to commit, by making sure she was definitely not still alive and possibly lessening blood loss during the dismembering??

I just realized I'm typing in the middle of a quote and have messed up this long post. Sorry!

I don't mean to be disrespectful. But your speculation is absurd.

 

[reedus23]

I don't mean to be disrespectful. But your speculation is absurd.

What do you find absurd? I'm not familiar with medicines or bipolar disorder. Is that what you find absurd? Or are you talking about the possible connections to the other case? TIA

 

[ktgirl]

I just think if Jaren had ODed, they would have just dumped her somewhere in one piece, not go to all the trouble to dismember her and hope the current would take her body away forever. No need to cover up an OD by making it look like a murder- it may make sense to try to make a murder look like an accidental OD, but making an OD look like a murder does not make sense, even for these two & even if they were high out of their minds.

The stab wound sounds to me like someone got angry (could be for a number of reasons- Jaren fought back during a robbery or attack, jealousy, etc) and stabbed her, then went into uh-oh mode and decided to cover it up by dismembering her and putting her in the Gulf.

 

[Ms. Shagwell]

I just think if Jaren had ODed, they would have just dumped her somewhere in one piece, not go to all the trouble to dismember her and hope the current would take her body away forever. No need to cover up an OD by making it look like a murder- it may make sense to try to make a murder look like an accidental OD, but making an OD look like a murder does not make sense, even for these two & even if they were high out of their minds.

The stab wound sounds to me like someone got angry (could be for a number of reasons- Jaren fought back during a robbery or attack, jealousy, etc) and stabbed her, then went into uh-oh mode and decided to cover it up by dismembering her and putting her in the Gulf.

That's exactly why I have to wonder if something happened that doesn't match the usual scenario. MAS and TS aren't your usual suspects and obviously aren't going to do what an otherwise "rational" criminal would do.

If MAS is indeed bipolar, you have the strong possibility of drug and alcohol use and the absence of meds to worsen her mental instability on any given day.

TS,as a sex offender who could not afford to be caught in any criminal situation, would have to go to extremes to cover his identity and involvement if ever linked to any crime.

Both must have known that others (who knew them well) had seen them leave with Jaren from Temptations, which is why I really doubt any of this was premeditated.

Jaren seemed to be battling her own drug dependencies and was baited into accepting an invite that promised a nice amount of money in exchange for her company.

The three went somewhere together, and at some point Jaren was stabbed presumably in the chest. Although I also think that the stab wound may have resulted from her refusal to play along or in self-defense in a situation that turned drug-ugly, I still can't rule out that something else (like the OD situation I proposed earlier) could have set these two off in a panic. I just don't see this playing out like the some of the other murder and dismembering cases have.

Could the two, one being manic or psychotic and the other a sex offender in high panic mode, have thought that the only way out of bringing home Jaren's body or dumping it somewhere it might be found, was to do what MAS remembered her "friend" Zack doing to her other "friend" Addie. It definitely could have.

As for the Hillary Moulder connection. She was found dead of an apparent overdose in March in a French Quarter apartment. Jaren and Hillary were friends and Hillary was from the MS Gulf Coast. Her last address was in the Waveland area, not too far from where Jaren's remains were first discovered on the Bay St. Louis beach. I would have to think that TS may have known Hillary and may have been aware of the questions about her death having been a drug-related murder. Bringing home another dancer who had OD'd-if there is any possibility that's what happened to Jaren- would not do anything for his already damaged record.

My thoughts and typing were a bit rushed on my last post when I realized I had typed inside a quote and had no idea how to undo anything on my tablet:banghead::banghead: I didn't intend to sound as absurd as the scenario I think these two lunatics (who dyed their hair blue and red-orange in disguise) have gotten themselves into. Sorry if that was the impressionlease:

 

[reedus23]

That's exactly why I have to wonder if something happened that doesn't match the usual scenario. MAS and TS aren't your usual suspects and obviously aren't going to do what an otherwise "rational" criminal would do.

If MAS is indeed bipolar, you have the strong possibility of drug and alcohol use and the absence of meds to worsen her mental instability on any given day.

TS,as a sex offender who could not afford to be caught in any criminal situation, would have to go to extremes to cover his identity and involvement if ever linked to any crime.

Both must have known that others (who knew them well) had seen them leave with Jaren from Temptations, which is why I really doubt any of this was premeditated.

SBM...I have no doubt whatsoever that Jaren's murder was premeditated in the legal sense. If what you mean when you say not premeditated that it wasn't planned out before going and getting Jaren that evening, I'm not sure either way. But even if they didn't plan it before picking her up, the murder can still be and IMO is premeditated as long as they thought about it before they killed her no matter for how short of a time.

 

[2LuckyDogs]

Just a few thoughts after reading some recent posts:

1. MAS claims she does not remember leaving Temptations but intoxicated or not she remembered where she parked her car.

2. MAS remembered she needed to report to work but was too sick to stay. Curious to know if that excuse was food poison.

3. Insanity plea IMO means admitting guilt and does not mean no jail time. It means being locked up in a psychiatric ward and maybe a lesser sentence. But that would be after a battery of evaluations that would prove or disprove her claim of insanity. Jurors are usually skeptical of this plea.

4. MAS's long term memory is still intact as she recently posted about fun times when she was a senior in high school.

5. Maybe her memory loss is a defense mechanism. Maybe her inability to recall certain aspects she participated in is a case of dissociative amnesia. Geez! Even PB recalled every detail.............

6. Maybe MAS met a speech therapist during her stint as a CNA that could help her recall and strengthening her short term memory.


The only thing that will produce symptoms of food poison is from all the "CROW" MAS will be eating when the TRUTH is revealed.

 

[bessie]

Yep. Food poisoning was the excuse she usedcto leave work. I posted that here early on in the case. A tidbit I received from a HIGHLY reliable source.

 

[typically-a-reader]

Yep. Food poisoning was the excuse she usedcto leave work. I posted that here early on in the case. A tidbit I received from a HIGHLY reliable source.

She is a liar. She is literally hanging onto this food poisoning lie for her life.

What about TS? What does HE recall from that night??