Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

[Hello_Kitty]

Well that would totally blow their possible defence strategy out of the water wouldn't it? He claimed not to have known Tori's family (including JG). He mentioned the rumours about them but didn't know them. He only knew of Tori from a friend.

If he knew Tori then we have motive right there and I seriously doubt the defence would even go there, IMO.

If that's a possible scenario then JG will be testifying?

 

[Sillybilly]

IMO, the media has Jim Smyth's interview with TLM mixed up with the polygraph. Smyth is a detective, and I highly doubt he would administer the polygraph. Unless the video shows her hooked up to the machine with Smyth at the controls, I think this could be mis-information.

JMO

ETA: Scroll down in chrono to May 19 (sorry, am on laptop without a mouse, so can't do a cut & paste):

http://www.canada.com/news/Chronology+events+Tori+Stafford+murder/3953425/story.html

 

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~

I was trying to show that she had lied during the polygraph so that should not really be a factor in determining which story to believe.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7767001&postcount=570

Hope this explains it better.

Right - I understood that. What I'm trying to say is maybe that is not the part of the poly she passed, kwim? If she would have passed that portion of the test, the investigators would not have continued to question her (maybe). Just because she was asked those questions and she responded, does not mean she passed the poly on those particular questions. Passing the poly doesn't necessarily mean she passed every question asked whether she was lying or not.

Without knowing which questions she passed, it is hard to put much weight on the poly.

Salem

 

[swedie]

Dear Victoria, three years have gone by since you were so tragically taken from this earth precious little one. Sick people stole and broke your body, but they could not break your soul. You are a beautiful sweet Angel now, giving those who love you dearly the strength to carry on. Justice is coming precious tiny one. Never ever will you be forgotten. Our Canadian Angel. <3 xoxo

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkjPTA1P7lU"]In Memory of Tori Stafford | From Mystery To Tragedy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[swedie]

If that's a possible scenario then JG will be testifying?

I don't believe JG will be taking the stand as it has been reported he has been seen in the courtroom with TM. HTH.

 

[Ardy]

I have as much skepticism about the defense "drug debt and unknowing dupe" theory, as I have with accepting TLM's statements about not knowing TM had a daughter, and that VS went with a stranger because she said she had the same breed of dog as VS.

So.........I await in hopes of evidence that would support either theory.

I must say though..........and this is purely my opinion.........if there were some really incriminating evidence against MR that is to come, I wonder why he wouldn't have plead guilty to avoid the public notoriety that his trial has brought down on him.....JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

I stand corrected ... Jim Smyth is with the behavioural sciences and analysis services, AND polygraph unit of the OPP.

Time for silly's nap ... again

 

[Alethea Dice]

~Respectfully snipped~

Right - I understood that. What I'm trying to say is maybe that is not the part of the poly she passed, kwim? If she would have passed that portion of the test, the investigators would not have continued to question her (maybe). Just because she was asked those questions and she responded, does not mean she passed the poly on those particular questions. Passing the poly doesn't necessarily mean she passed every question asked whether she was lying or not.

Without knowing which questions she passed, it is hard to put much weight on the poly.

Salem

Okay, I see what you're saying. I'm not sure how the tests work - whether you have to answer so many of the questions right in order to pass or what the numbers would be. Do we even know if she really passed the test? I recall TLM saying that she did, but I didn't see anything about whether they even asked Det. Smyth if she passed. My impression from the court tweets was that they continued to question her after her polygraph and that is when she finally confessed - she didn't confess during the polygraph. According to the tweets that I posted, she was still denying all involvement during the polygraph.

JMO

 

[swedie]

TLM and MR are the only 2 people accused..........but I think quite a few people were "involved" in the overall LE investigation.

The list of initials is long and keeps growing............JMO

May I ask who else's initials have come up as being involved besides TLM, MR? That information might be really helpful to some of us here. TIA

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Rest in peace sweet little girl. I'm sure you are watching over your family on this day.

 

[Tahorn]

The one issue I have with TLM story is the dramatics of their relationship. hooking up a few times in a car and once in a motel does not establish the control he needed over TLM to kidnap a child for him to rape and murder ... And the trust she would not tell someone what she had witnessed after he dropped her off a few blocks from her home ...

Check out the link below

http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/deadly-women-female-sociopaths.html

In no way do I believe he is completely innocent, I just do not think he is the mastermind TLM claims him to be ...

 

[Ardy]

May I ask who else's initials have come up as being involved besides TLM, MR? That information might be really helpful to some of us here. TIA

I would have no way of knowing who LE included in their investigation, beyond the witnesses that have already testified.

Certainly I think the records of BA's phone may be of interest.

 

[swedie]

I have as much skepticism about the defense "drug debt and unknowing dupe" theory, as I have with accepting TLM's statements about not knowing TM had a daughter, and that VS went with a stranger because she said she had the same breed of dog as VS.

So.........I await in hopes of evidence that would support either theory.

I must say though..........and this is purely my opinion.........if there were some really incriminating evidence against MR that is to come, I wonder why he wouldn't have plead guilty to avoid the public notoriety that his trial has brought down on him.....JMO

I asked this question once also and I got the answer "because he can". But when I really pondered it over in my mind, it became clear to me MR feels he has nothing to lose only possibly something to gain...freedom. Also it is my strong opinion is he is not paying for his trial, the taxpayers are so what the heck. It's quite possible MR is enjoying his four days a week in court instead of sitting in a 8X10' cell. Maybe he's enjoying reading his name in the daily papers; makes him feel special knowing he's a celebrity. I hope he is enjoying this time out because if he is found guilty, 25 years is a heck of a long time to be staring at the same four walls and the bars that confine him 23 hours a day.:yuck::cow:

 

[swedie]

Okay, I see what you're saying. I'm not sure how the tests work - whether you have to answer so many of the questions right in order to pass or what the numbers would be. Do we even know if she really passed the test? I recall TLM saying that she did, but I didn't see anything about whether they even asked Det. Smyth if she passed. My impression from the court tweets was that they continued to question her after her polygraph and that is when she finally confessed - she didn't confess during the polygraph. According to the tweets that I posted, she was still denying all involvement during the polygraph.

JMO

Hey AD in case you missed my post a few back, oh and SillyBillys too, can you posts a link to the information about the polygraph test TLM took? I cannot find it in the MSM. TIA.

 

[Tahorn]

I asked this question once also and I got the answer "because he can". But when I really pondered it over in my mind, it became clear to me MR feels he has nothing to lose only possibly something to gain...freedom. Also it is my strong opinion is he is not paying for his trial, the taxpayers are so what the heck. It's quite possible MR is enjoying his four days a week in court instead of sitting in a 8X10' cell. Maybe he's enjoying reading his name in the daily papers; makes him feel special knowing he's a celebrity. I hope he is enjoying this time out because if he is found guilty, 25 years is a heck of a long time to be staring at the same four walls and the bars that confine him 23 hours a day.:yuck::cow:

He deserves to go to prison for life just for leaving VS battered and broken body under a pile off rocks all the while knowing her loved ones and the entire nation suffered. That in itself is torture ... worse then water boarding.

However if he did not kidnap and rape that poor little girl then he should have the right to tell his story if only clear his name of the rape. A Life sentence as a child rapist in prison is not something he would look forward too but well deserved if he is.

 

[swedie]

I would have no way of knowing who LE included in their investigation, beyond the witnesses that have already testified.

Certainly I think the records of BA's phone may be of interest.

Oh I see you don't know then that there is anyone else involved? So you are assuming more people are involved when you said this?

The list of initials is long and keeps growing............JMO


I thought I had missed some key people involved in this case besides TLM and MR, that's why I was asking. To the best of my recollection, LE have maintained just after TLM's and MR's arrest they have the two people responsible and they believed no one else was involved. HTH :moo:

 

[Ardy]

The one issue I have with TLM story is the dramatics of their relationship. hooking up a few times in a car and once in a motel does establish the control he needed over TLM to kidnap a child for him to rape and murder ... And the trust she would not tell someone what she had witnessed after he dropped her off a few blocks from her home ...

Check out the link below

http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/deadly-women-female-sociopaths.html

Wow...........that is scary stuff.

I also find it hard to believe that MR could have easily manipulated a sociopath such as TLM. The sociopath is the one doing the manipulating.

If we believe TLM's testimony, we have to wonder how MR would know he could comfortably discuss with TLM the kidnapping and rape of a child.

IF he gained that level of comfort in such a short period of time, by having knowledge of TLM's criminal past, her letter writings or journal entries, the question then arises if he would trust a person with such a past that he was aware of, with information on a crime that could end his freedom in a heartbeat.

He would always be looking over his shoulder, subject to blackmail, and never knowing if or when TLM would get into criminal trouble and be willing to exchange the information for a lesser sentence.

I just don't get know..................

 

[Tahorn]

Wow...........that is scary stuff.

I also find it hard to believe that MR could have easily manipulated a sociopath such as TLM. The sociopath is the one doing the manipulating.

If we believe TLM's testimony, we have to wonder how MR would know he could comfortably discuss with TLM the kidnapping and rape of a child.

IF he gained that level of comfort in such a short period of time, by having knowledge of TLM's criminal past, her letter writings or journal entries, the question then arises if he would trust a person with such a past that he was aware of, with information on a crime that could end his freedom in a heartbeat.

He would always be looking over his shoulder, subject to blackmail, and never knowing if or when TLM would get into criminal trouble and be willing to exchange the information for a lesser sentence.

I just don't get know..................

I have to wonder if she felt it necessary to find a way to gain control over him. Her mother was sick and very soon she was most likely going to be left alone once she died. MR had a car and treated her nice ... but from her experience that was going to last very long unless she found a way to manipulate him.

Giving him VS as a sexual gift or involving him in her plan of revenge would be the control she needed. Everything is about her and what she wants ...

 

[swedie]

Wow...........that is scary stuff.

I also find it hard to believe that MR could have easily manipulated a sociopath such as TLM. The sociopath is the one doing the manipulating.

If we believe TLM's testimony, we have to wonder how MR would know he could comfortably discuss with TLM the kidnapping and rape of a child.

IF he gained that level of comfort in such a short period of time, by having knowledge of TLM's criminal past, her letter writings or journal entries, the question then arises if he would trust a person with such a past that he was aware of, with information on a crime that could end his freedom in a heartbeat.

He would always be looking over his shoulder, subject to blackmail, and never knowing if or when TLM would get into criminal trouble and be willing to exchange the information for a lesser sentence.

I just don't get know..................

The fact MR picked TLM up at a pizza shop, asked her to go for a drive and had sex with her in his car within mere hours of meeting her hopefully answers your part I bolded above. Plus the fact MR was the "engine" who drove TLM around to homes of single women and discussed breaking into them and tying people up. Sounds like he was the instigator/manipulator who needed his warped sexual fantasies fulfilled.

Moving on to next bolded part, MR was stupid enough to think he would never get caught. Now that he has been caught, he's blaming it all on TLM. MR knew exactly what he was getting into when he met TLM. I still go back to my suspicion MR knew of TLM long before he picked her up at the pizza shop. I presume a drug friend of a drug friend of a drug friend is how MR found out about TLM and her bad ways. HTH and :moo:

 

[Ardy]

I have to wonder if she felt it necessary to find a way to gain control over him. Her mother was sick and very soon she was most likely going to be left alone once she died. MR had a car and treated her nice ... but from her experience that was going to last very long unless she found a way to manipulate him.

Giving him VS as a sexual gift or involving him in her plan of revenge would be the control she needed. Everything is about her and what she wants ...

Very good observation.

Under that scenario, in her own mind she could forever bind them together with a terrible deed they did together.

The defense theory looks a lot more plausible under that light, if MR had refused the offer and rebuffed TLM.

That could have enraged her and led to the final events.....gained by more manipulation of the situation.

After that, maybe she wanted to make him pay for rejecting her.