MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #18

[Linda7NJ]

For all you know, everyone else could have intentionally ignored him and left KR to ‘discover’ the body.

We all have different eyes with different fields of vision and even different color perception. They were all in different seats in a car with different angles and perspectives. I saw a screech owl on my evening walk last night that my partner did not initially see. Does this mean I planted the owl or knew of its existence? No.

But we’ve all seen the field of vision from the police dash cam video. Seeing him was impossible

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

If I dropped someone off and watched them walk in the door…I would assume they were too intoxicated & crashed on the sofa there.
That’s logical.
Karen immediately blamed a snow plow and decided he was dead.

Yes, because as she had explained, JOK had NEVER not come home before when the kids were there.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I am thinking Karen was interrogating John who’s the girl that Jenn mentioned lived nearby…and an argument ensued.

For all we know, JOK was yelling at KR for texting things to that other cop. I know it's hard to not automatically assume the worst of her because she is "arrogant"

 

[kuromiiiilove]

If I dropped someone off and watched them walk in the door…I would assume they were too intoxicated & crashed on the sofa there.
That’s logical.
Karen immediately blamed a snow plow and decided he was dead.

Again, your whole argument is based on vibes/what you think Karen should have thought or done. She could just trend anxious and tend to catastrophize. It’s not criminal. And again, certainly not a viable reason to convict her.

 

[rescuemom]

If your theory is true, everyone in the house is lying including Julie Nagel. Also in the "frenzy", they remembered to take out the broken Waterfall glass and put it near JO. Instead of staging JO on the lawn, why didn't they just claim there was a fight and JO fell and hit his head ? Would have been easy to say JO came in the house looking for a fight with BH, got aggressive, the dog responded and someone pushed JO in self defense to the floor causing the head injury.

I believe many participated but didn't think of everything it would take to frame someone else. I have no idea why the waterfall glass even matters. Why draw attention to the actual crime scene where evidence is apparent and many people might be involved and stories to be believed when you could place a body outside in plenty of time to freeze to death with few questions asked. All JMO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

If JO were in the house and was bludgeoned, someone moved him to the front yard by the flagpole. If that were the case, were they not afraid of being seen moving the body ?

Maybe the reason that the ring doorbell video across the street from the Alberts was conveniently erased or deleted by ...wait...another former/current cop. The actions of several people immediately and following that night screams of a cover up.

My question is for who??? My guess is Higgins or one of the younger basement crowd already partying at the Albert house whose life that night changed forever.

Also, I'd like to know the layout of the Albert house particularly the distance and ambiant lighting from the door KO entered and the doorway to the basement. Just for instance, if the outer door opens into foyer with a short hallway leading to the back of the house to maybe the kitchen/family room like many colonial houses do, is the basement door off of that hallway??? If many were congregated in the kitchen/family room JO may have slipped into the house with no one in kitchen/family room seeing him., IMO

Yes, the basement door is off the foyer next to the half bath, and the house is a closed floor plan traditional colonial. The young people were in the kitchen/dining area and easily could have missed someone coming in the front door and heading straight down to the basement. Zillow has realtor photos.

We should keep in mind that absolutely no one in or around the house saw John's body on the lawn after Karen was supposed to have left him there to die. And that's quite a few people, not including any unrelated passing traffic. It was late and snowing but Fairview is a fairly busy double yellow lined road. The three in the car that pulled up behind her saw her alone in the car with no John in or around her car. All of the guests that walked by the phantom body claimed they were either looking at the ground or the sky as they walked by. Matt McCabe's headlights (he drove right by the "body on the lawn") should have illuminated the area near the flagpole, but nope, the four occupants in his car saw nothing.
Lucky the plow guy should have seen a body as well. He testified he was in the biggest of all the plow trucks with high level lights and didn't see anyone on the lawn. On one of his passes he did see an SUV parked on the street (a no-no after 1 am in the winter in Canton) blocking his view of the area where John was later found. The speculation is that was either an Albert vehicle or Caitlin (sp?) Albert's boyfriend's car. (The Alberts had told police their daughter had left much earlier in the evening but we found out at trial this was a lie and her boyfriend came to pick her in the middle of the night.)

My guess is (and the defense implied through the questioning of Lucky) that the SUV illegally parked on the street during a storm was there to block the view of anyone driving by or any camera from picking up the view of two men moving John's body from the basement bulkhead in back to the area 12 feet from the curb, tossing a shoe on the lawn to make it look like a vehicle hit John before he'd had a chance to enter the house. And of course, if Read had actually hit John, the person who put the SUV there absolutely should have seen John's body.

The only logical conclusion from all this testimony is that John's body was placed on the lawn hours after Read left. Which would also explain why his body temp was still so high when he was found.

 

[Linda7NJ]

For all we know, JOK was yelling at KR for texting things to that other cop. I know it's hard to not automatically assume the worst of her because she is "arrogant"

Arrogant? You think she’s arrogant?
I think she lacks empathy, is manipulative, and a liar.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Arrogant? You think she’s arrogant?
I think she lacks empathy, is manipulative, and a liar.

Elliot is quoting your post upthread, where you call her arrogant. Hence the quotation marks.

 

[Derph]

Yes, the basement door is off the foyer next to the half bath, and the house is a closed floor plan traditional colonial. The young people were in the kitchen/dining area and easily could have missed someone coming in the front door and heading straight down to the basement. Zillow has realtor photos.

We should keep in mind that absolutely no one in or around the house saw John's body on the lawn after Karen was supposed to have left him there to die. And that's quite a few people, not including any unrelated passing traffic. It was late and snowing but Fairview is a fairly busy double yellow lined road. The three in the car that pulled up behind her saw her alone in the car with no John in or around her car. All of the guests that walked by the phantom body claimed they were either looking at the ground or the sky as they walked by. Matt McCabe's headlights (he drove right by the "body on the lawn") should have illuminated the area near the flagpole, but nope, the four occupants in his car saw nothing.
Lucky the plow guy should have seen a body as well. He testified he was in the biggest of all the plow trucks with high level lights and didn't see anyone on the lawn. On one of his passes he did see an SUV parked on the street (a no-no after 1 am in the winter in Canton) blocking his view of the area where John was later found. The speculation is that was either an Albert vehicle or Caitlin (sp?) Albert's boyfriend's car. (The Alberts had told police their daughter had left much earlier in the evening but we found out at trial this was a lie and her boyfriend came to pick her in the middle of the night.)

My guess is (and the defense implied through the questioning of Lucky) that the SUV illegally parked on the street during a storm was there to block the view of anyone driving by or any camera from picking up the view of two men moving John's body from the basement bulkhead in back to the area 12 feet from the curb, tossing a shoe on the lawn to make it look like a vehicle hit John before he'd had a chance to enter the house. And of course, if Read had actually hit John, the person who put the SUV there absolutely should have seen John's body.

The only logical conclusion from all this testimony is that John's body was placed on the lawn hours after Read left. Which would also explain why his body temp was still so high when he was found.

It is pretty unbelievable that absolutely no one saw JOK's body laying there in the front yard if they are telling the truth. This is the view they would have had of the yard. Those kids pulled up to the driveway and stopped by the mailbox, which is easily noticed here in this photo and not far away from where he was found. Unless another one of those magical events happened here too where all these people just happen to drive at night during a snow event without their headlights on.

 

[Sustained]

It is pretty unbelievable that absolutely no one saw JOK's body laying there in the front yard if they are telling the truth. This is the view they would have had of the yard. Those kids pulled up to the driveway and stopped by the mailbox, which is easily noticed here in this photo and not far away from where he was found. Unless another one of those magical events happened here too where all these people just happen to drive at night during a snow event without their headlights on.

View attachment 572734

Guess it would matter which way they traveled down Fairview after leaving the Alberts

 

[HarmonyE.]

Guess it would matter which way they traveled down Fairview after leaving the Alberts

We know which way they went. You should watch the trial for more information about this.

 

[Linda7NJ]

For all we know, JOK was yelling at KR for texting things to that other cop. I know it's hard to not automatically assume the worst of her because she is "arrogant"

She told the guy in the ambulance the last time she saw him they were arguing

 

[HarmonyE.]

There is zero proof JO was ever in the house and dragged/carried to the location he was found. Pure speculation.

There is no physical evidence he was hit by a vehicle and no one who should have easily seen a body on the lawn saw a body on the lawn. He died from a head injury Trooper Paul at trial could not explain. And as he wasn't hit by a vehicle, the only other option given the nature of his injuries is that he was placed on the lawn to stage a pedestrian incident. Logic 101 stuff.

 

[Linda7NJ]

There is no physical evidence he was hit by a vehicle and no one who should have easily seen a body on the lawn saw a body on the lawn. He died from a head injury Trooper Paul at trial could not explain. And as he wasn't hit by a vehicle, the only other option given the nature of his injuries is that he was placed on the lawn to stage a pedestrian incident. Logic 101 stuff.

Except There Is physical evidence …

 

[Linda7NJ]

Karen Read lost her motion to delay the trial

 

[Linda7NJ]

 

[HarmonyE.]

Will do when I have more time but you repeating this over and over is not necessary. You are welcome to ignore those of us who don't have the trial knowledge that you do.

No, thank you. If someone didn't watch the trial and doesn't know much about the case, I don't think their disinformation or fully inaccurate comments should be allowed to pass without comment. I think the full trial is still available on YouTube though.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Except There Is physical evidence …

What physical evidence? I will repeat that his cause of death is undetermined and the ME could not say with confidence that he was struck with a vehicle. It’s not even as if his body was decayed beyond the point of finding CoD. There just isn’t compelling evidence that JOK was struck OR killed by a vehicle.

I tend to trust the actual professional. Unless of course, you’re an ME who also examined his body!

 

[PamCake]

I keep reading about how nobody (except Julie Nagel's vision of a "black blob") saw anyone on the lawn outside 34 Fairview when leaving the home that night. Does it not occur to anyone that, with snow, most objects are EASIER to see, especially in the dark? This makes me think that there was NO body there until WELL after the CW's timeline. Whether he was placed there by someone from the house, or stumbled there grossly injured after leaving, I can't be sure, BUT I'm certain that if he were there, he would've been noticed, especially by the plow driver, Lucky.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What physical evidence? I will repeat that his cause of death is undetermined and the ME could not say with confidence that he was struck with a vehicle. It’s not even as if his body was decayed beyond the point of finding CoD. There just isn’t compelling evidence that JOK was struck OR killed by a vehicle.

I tend to trust the actual professional. Unless of course, you’re an ME who also examined his body!

The Medical Examiner was awful. Really awful. IMO