MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #22 Retrial

[justwannahelp]

In youtube of Maureen Hartnett it shows everything. NO blood on car. Blood on one tennis shoe. Worth watching.

Yeh now that I’ve seen pics of his face, I’m totally convinced it was a fight. He may have fallen after being knocked out and busted his head open.

Did the cops really never go in that house?!?!

 

[justwannahelp]

<unnecessary>

No Higgins did not destroy his phone they day before he was to turn it in. Higgins was never ordered to turn his phone in.

What do they mean by got rid of? Did they set them on fire?

 

[mrjitty]

There is not a single shred of evidence presented to support this.

Did you forget Karen said she SAW John cross the threshold?
Poke his head in?

IMO

In light of Wiffin's testimony, it's worth pointing out the difficulties for the defendant's doco version. in summary KR claimed she waited in the vehicle for 10 mins or so and got frustrated when the defendant did not come back. She called and he did not answer. So she left. We know she arrives home at 12.36

IMO the defendant's version was likely based on a 12.41 arrival time. The significance of the 12.36 router connection seems to have been missed by both sides (Lally famously had to change his timeline).

Wiffin's evidence is that John remained in the vehicle for a time after 12.24, and stopped moving forever shortly after exiting the vehicle.

It's also clear KR had already left 34F before she called John for the first time.

I am also intrigued that AJ appeared to say that 'they' got out of the vehicle. Does Brennan have Lexus door opening data?

But in any case, it appears the claim that the defendant waited for the victim cannot be correct. She had to have left pretty much when John got out.

 

[mrjitty]

I think Kerry and Jen behaved like pretty amazing friends to Karen. Now, did they jump to help HER that morning or were they both worried about John? I would think both.
No one had a bad word to say about her until she killed their friend and it became obvious.

IMO

The vilification of these two witnesses by TB has been insane and I hope the arm of the law catches up with him in due course. IMO.

Why would anyone be a witness if this is what happens?

 

[justwannahelp]

In light of Wiffin's testimony, it's worth pointing out the difficulties for the defendant's doco version. in summary KR claimed she waited in the vehicle for 10 mins or so and got frustrated when the defendant did not come back. She called and he did not answer. So she left. We know she arrives home at 12.36

IMO the defendant's version was likely based on a 12.41 arrival time. The significance of the 12.36 router connection seems to have been missed by both sides (Lally famously had to change his timeline).

Wiffin's evidence is that John remained in the vehicle for a time after 12.24, and stopped moving forever shortly after exiting the vehicle.

It's also clear KR had already left 34F before she called John for the first time.

I am also intrigued that AJ appeared to say that 'they' got out of the vehicle. Does Brennan have Lexus door opening data?

But in any case, it appears the claim that the defendant waited for the victim cannot be correct. She had to have left pretty much when John got out.

Interesting

 

[justwannahelp]

I’m praying that John is up in Heaven and can help his case from there. May he see to it that the truth is exposed!

 

[mrjitty]

I believe it was last week I mentioned about the carpet (link below) the defendant had been housing from 34F.

However...

• There was no carpet in the basement
• If there was any truth to the defendant having carpet from 34F, there's no doubt it would have already been swabbed for blood evidence. That would have been important evidence to clear defendant; and it is important to get the sample tested quickly. Would have shown JOK in the house, only problem, he never went into the house.
• Thats why no one on defense team talks about the "carpet"...
• Guess it makes more sense to spend the money by housing the lawyers and defendant.

New details about Karen Read case revealed in Part 2 of Vanity Fair profile

.

www.nbcboston.com

10/30/2024

The article also reveals that Read housed her lawyers, David Yannetti, Alan Jackson and Elizabeth Little, and herself in the same hotel leading up to and during her trial, at a cost of $1.2 million. She used a combination of her savings, $500,000 from her legal fund and $400,000 donated by friends and family to cover the costs.


Near the end of the piece, Miller includes a conversation from her final night with Read, saying Read talked about a temperature-controlled storage unit she's paying for to house carpeting torn from the Alberts' home after they sold it. She said she hopes to get enough money to swab the carpet at some point for blood and DNA evidence.

What would be the point saving the carpet for after you already got convicted?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I hate to ask you to link it, But I am pretty sure the dog was removed pretty quickly, like faster than you believe. Like with in a week but if not by then not more than a month. I have heard as fast as 2 dayS later on WS. imo ,

You do not have to have a link to your opinion, But yah weird place for a unruly police dog to find herself in.

Chloe, the German Shepherd mix owned by Brian and Nicole Albert, was rehomed after an incident in May 2022, where she attacked another dog and injured two women trying to intervene. This was approximately four months after John O'Keefe's death on January 29, 2022.

Brain Albert testimony T1

 

[mrjitty]

And this is just completely FALSE!!! I suggest going back to Day 12 of the 1st trial and listen to the testimony of Teri Kun. She specifically states that she didn't know where on the shirt the DNA swabs were taken from.

This was taken from Court TV's summery and Day by Day recaps. MA v. Karen Read: Killer or Cover-Up Murder Trial

" A forensic scientist with a specialty in animal DNA, says she tested two swabs from a shirt and found no canine DNA – on cross defense suggests there is no insight to the swabs given to her by the Massachusetts State Police, ie she does not know what part of the shirt the DNA came from."

The question has to be put to the correct witness. i.e the one who took the swabs.

 

[mrjitty]

It did prove he wasn’t in the house
IMO

I fear this is where the whole thing about the error bars and confidence intervals might go over the juries head unless they did stats to a highish level!

My understanding of Wiffin is John's phone was always in practical terms reporting the same GPS coords, and of course was finally recovered from close to that exact location. Therefore it is overwhelmingly likely it was always at those coords.

Of course you can cherry pick a period of low signal and claim that you can't exclude it being in the house. But that is of course not evidence it ever was in the house. Indeed the totality of evidence is clear the phone never moved after 12.32 (GPS + Battery + Apple Health)

 

[mrjitty]

On redirect, Wiffin notes that the accuracy of the GPS reporting could be impacted by the weather, and the phone being located under the body of John

Wiffin also reconfirms that in his expert opinion, the phone was always by the flagpole.

IMO, visually the black vs white circles actually confirm this. While the low confidence area includes part of the house (for 5 seconds), the high confidence area is still outside the house, and centred need the flagpole

Obviously I get where Alessi was going with this chart but it is not evidence the phone was in the house.

 

[Spectrix]

The CW's own expert states that between 12:31:56am and 12:32:16am, JOK travelled 36 steps and a distance of 25 metres.

That happens to be the exact distance between KRs Lexus and the Albert's front door at 34 Fairview Rd.

 

[Bodhi]

The vilification of these two witnesses by TB has been insane and I hope the arm of the law catches up with him in due course. IMO.

Why would anyone be a witness if this is what happens?

It's despicable. Jen and Kerry answered Karen's desperate calls in the pre-dawn darkness. They left warm, cozy beds to help her in the wee hours of the morning despite the dangerous conditions. And they did everything they could to save their friend. They've been stalked, harassed, and threatened--for years. And yet, on the witness stand they stuck to the facts. They refrained from going further than what they recalled.

It's not just the 2 early morning helpers who have been ridiculed and vilified. It's also their spouses, children, siblings, acquaintances, nieces, nephews, their nephew's friends....The list goes on and on. Anyone following the case who takes a measured approach is treated as part of the "McAlberts" conspiracy and derided as well.

Turtle Boy faces consequences for a few of his actions. But the vilification is not limited to those who actively stalk, harass, and threaten witnesses in real life. It is picked up and extended online and talk radio by others. It's tolerated in places I used to believe balanced. People who respond with glee to witness intimidation encourage those doing it in person. They become part of the witness intimidation by making it pervasive.

I have noted improvement in the tenor of discussions about this trial over last year. More objectivity. Less swarming. More tolerance of different views. It's been refreshing to see wider participation and broader viewpoints expressed. Not on the FKR sites, of course. But elsewhere.

 

[mrjitty]

Something that Brennan has done much better than Lally is that his focus on the timeline helps corroborate Jen's testimony. She can see the Lexus but where is John?

We know now from Wiffin that John was still sitting inside the Lexus with Karen for many minutes

In contrast, Karen claims she is waiting 10 mins by herself and calling John. We know that she wasn't by herself and she didn't call from in front of 34F.

These small points matter quite a lot IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Chloe has been the most elusive entity in the case . IMO. I have no answers there.
I am excited about the mold of her teeth. IF they are really that dog. She should have been collected like evidence.

The defense could have requested Chloe be produced for moulds, she was not. T-1

The defense fought to keep out moulds & measurements from Chloe. T-2

 

[HarmonyE.]

Yes, it is shocking. But it didn't start with Turtle Boy. It was engineered by Karen. She worked through an intermediary and then directly with Turtle Boy to spark a PR campaign, contrary to the judge's orders.

The prosecution has been desperately trying to prove Karen was calling the shots with TB and his alleged witness intimidation and they've failed miserably. They even tried a grand jury but couldn't get an indictment against her.

Her brother knew of TB and brought the case to his attention because the local media refused to print anything but what LE was telling them. (like the claim that LE had ring camera video of Read hitting JO. A lie, as we now know.) Sensing a good story, TB ran with it and it snowballed from there.

The CW has all of TB's and Read's devices and couldn't make a case. So it's false to claim otherwise.

 

[rrsafety]

What do they mean by got rid of? Did they set them on fire?

I believe Higgins said he drove to Cape Cod, entered a military base and dumped his phone in a dumpster. You know, the way we all get rid of our phones.

 

[rrsafety]

The defense could have requested Chloe be produced for moulds, she was not. T-1

The defense fought to keep out moulds & measurements from Chloe. T-2

My understanding is the moulds are from “a dog”. Whether that dog is actually Chloe is uncertain.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I believe Higgins said he drove to Cape Cod, entered a military base and dumped his phone in a dumpster. You know, the way we all get rid of our phones.

Correct. Karen Read trial: Brian Higgins confirms he threw phone away at military base
Also interesting - “Higgins confirmed he eventually changed his personal phone number on Sept. 29, 2022 — one day before he received a court order to preserve the phone, which Karen Read’s lawyers were seeking as evidence. Higgins testified that he learned the defense motion had been denied in October and got rid of his old phone “about two months after that,” because it was “beaten” and he’d already gotten a new one”

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I feel like I am in ground hog day with this zombie 'fact' that won't die.

No Higgins did not destroy his phone the day before he was to turn it in. Higgins was never ordered to turn his phone

But he was ordered to preserve it. And many believe he got a heads up.

“Higgins confirmed he eventually changed his personal phone number on Sept. 29, 2022 — one day before he received a court order to preserve the phone, which Karen Read’s lawyers were seeking as evidence.”

Karen Read trial: Brian Higgins confirms he threw phone away at military base

Seven witnesses took the stand Tuesday after Higgins's multi-day testimony concluded, including John O'Keefe's adolescent niece and nephew.

www.boston.com

It feels like nitpicking to say he wasn’t ordered to ‘turn in’ his phone, when the defense was seeking it as evidence in the case.