MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #23 Retrial

[Soulmagent]

It's Katie!

 

[kuromiiiilove]

If I had to answer who's experts they are, I would have to say they are the FBI's.

Yes, it’s very clear they did not have an agenda. ARCCA was hired by the Feds for trial 1. They presented their findings to both the CW and the Defense. The CW did not want to use their findings, for obvious reasons. The defense only paid them when they took them on as experts for trial 2, AFTER they had already independently concluded - and again, told the CW and the defense, that John was not struck and killed by a vehicle.

 

[mzmarymac]

She said it and she said it to JM, whom I believe is telling the truth. I think John's Mom is also telling the truth. MO After seeing KR in that doc, I can see why JM would think she's a <modsnip - namecalling> especially affter KR's messages to John. MO

Where is your actual proof that she said it to JM? Eyewitness/ear witness testimony is the most unreliable type of evidence. Say she is telling the truth. Why isn't that in earlier police reports? Why not in grand jury testimony? And is it reasonable to believe that maybe she actually misheard KR or misunderstood. It can be as simple as the difference between "I hit him. I hit him. I hit him." and "I hit him? I hit him? I hit him?"

 

[sunshineray]

My point was there would have had to be more than one hit to account for the multiple areas os marks on the arm assuming they’re from the taillight. That can’t be the case though because JOK would’ve had to remain upright the whole time for his arm to be in proximity of the taillight. This doesn’t match the CW premise of an immediate incapacitating hit

I respectfully disagree. We don't know the full details of the hit(s), the falling, if he moved around a bit badly hurt, possibly trying to get up.
AJMO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

She said it and she said it to JM, whom I believe is telling the truth. I think John's Mom is also telling the truth. MO After seeing KR in that doc, I can see why JM would think she's a <modsnip - namecalling>, especially affter KR's messages to John. MO

There is no recording, no eyewitness, and no physical evidence confirming Karen ever said “I hit him”. Only the completely uncorroborated claim of Jennifer McCabe, a witness who:
-deleted her Google searches,
-admitted to changing her timeline multiple times,
-and was central to the “2:27” controversy that the CW never fully explained.
-as well as lied to the Feds about her identity and phone calls/her location in the days after John died (she tried to deny she went to Mike Lenks on the 30th until the Feds told her they had her GPS data. She also tried to deny that she went to 34 Fairview before going to Mike Lenks, when again, they had her dead to rights as having visited Fairview for at least 4 minutes. She’s a hugely unreliable witness.

If the prosecution’s case rests on taking JM’s word at face value, despite contradictions and missing data, while ignoring the lack of forensic evidence tying Karen to John’s fatal injuries, then that’s not a strong case. MOO.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I respectfully disagree. We don't know the full details of the hit(s), the falling, if he moved around a bit badly hurt, possibly trying to get up.
AJMO

Didn't your documentary give you those facts?

 

[Derph]

It’s important to separate legal theatrics from the actual substance of testimony. The ARCCA experts weren’t “defense guys”, they’re independent forensic engineers with decades of credentials, frequently used by government agencies, including the military.

As for the sequestration claim: (1) the order was issued after the communication in question, and (2) neither the prosecution nor the judge moved to strike the expert’s testimony or question his credentials. Calling it a “big no-no” is courtroom dramatics, not disqualifying misconduct - even though Judge Cannone made some dramatic statements, there was no move to strike. Attacking expert witnesses over procedural misunderstandings while ignoring the CW’s concealment of FBI involvement and undisclosed reports is selective outrage, plain and simple.

I'm exasperated that no matter how many times it's been repeated in these threads, other websites, YouTube channels, legitimate news and mainstream media channels, newspapers, blogs, TV, and COURT ITSELF, the fact that the ARCCA experts WERE NOT HIRED BY THE DEFENSE is continually ignored!!!! What is it going to take to get people to understand this? Why are the anti-KR people so adamant in their refusal to accept this fact? Why do they continue to spread downright lies that ARCCA was hired by the Defense when time after time after time it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they didn't hire them? Ignoring this fact and continually perpetrating this lie makes one look extremely obtuse in my opinion. It was the FBI that hired ARCCA to look into this crimescene not Karen Read or her attornies. That is a fact not an opinion.

 

[Izzylizzy]

For reference.

'Karen Read trial witness lists: Who’s returning, who’s new, and who’s missing?​

Prosecutors and defense attorneys in the Karen Read case have submitted their witness lists. Here's who's on them.'​

Karen Read trial witness lists: Who’s returning, who’s new, and who’s missing?

Prosecutors and defense attorneys in the Karen Read case have submitted their witness lists. Here's who's on them.

www.boston.com

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I'm exasperated that no matter how many times it's been repeated in these threads, other websites, YouTube channels, legitimate news and mainstream media channels, newspapers, blogs, TV, and COURT ITSELF, the fact that the ARCCA experts WERE NOT HIRED BY THE DEFENSE is continually ignored!!!! What is it going to take to get people to understand this? Why are the anti-KR people so adamant in their refusal to accept this fact? Why do they continue to spread downright lies that ARCCA was hired by the Defense when time after time after time it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they didn't hire them? Ignoring this fact and continually perpetrating this lie makes one look extremely obtuse in my opinion. It was the FBI that hired ARCCA to look into this crimescene not Karen Read or her attornies. That is a fact not an opinion.

It’s infuriating. But I think it’s incredibly simple. If John was not struck by a car, then Karen did not strike him with her car. So to believe KR is guilty, they MUST discredit ARCCA. IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Jmo you might really benefit from watching this trial yourself, reading some balanced reporting where it exists or perhaps watching LYK who gives generally speaking balanced summaries and analysis. This thread is also full of factuai information about ARCCA. There are some very informative posts. Perhaps try @OldCop who posted very recently on the topic. In the meantime, apologies but your statements about ARCCA make no sense to me at all. ARCCA are highly regarded professionals in their field and were commissioned by the DOJ to do an accident reconstruction independently prior to trial X 1. These are basic facts and are not contested. They had and have no skin in the game. Moo

I have read a lot and watched, just not gavel to gavel. Well at least one of these highly regarded professionals didn't know he wasn't suppose to get filled in on other's testimony before he himself testified. I'd say tge P trying to stop their testimony coming before the jury is contesting. They obviously must have had some reason to do that, violate an order. MO

 

[jepop]

I'm exasperated that no matter how many times it's been repeated in these threads, other websites, YouTube channels, legitimate news and mainstream media channels, newspapers, blogs, TV, and COURT ITSELF, the fact that the ARCCA experts WERE NOT HIRED BY THE DEFENSE is continually ignored!!!! What is it going to take to get people to understand this? Why are the anti-KR people so adamant in their refusal to accept this fact? Why do they continue to spread downright lies that ARCCA was hired by the Defense when time after time after time it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they didn't hire them? Ignoring this fact and continually perpetrating this lie makes one look extremely obtuse in my opinion. It was the FBI that hired ARCCA to look into this crimescene not Karen Read or her attornies. That is a fact not an opinion.

I'm tired of the uninformed misinformation being posted on this thread with regards to ARCCA. It's getting old fast. Moo

 

[mzmarymac]

A conspiracy that includes multitudes of people is the fantasy, MO. What happened to John was a tragic but simple hit and run, during cold weather in poor visibility...with an angry drunk driver at the wheel. MO

Let's ask Sandra Birchmore how she feels about conspiracies involving multiple people along with people turning a blind eye, or just believing the story spoon fed to them by a very small group of people. Too bad we can't.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

A conspiracy that includes multitudes of people is the fantasy, MO. What happened to John was a tragic but simple hit and run, during cold weather in poor visibility...with an angry drunk driver at the wheel. MO

A few issues with your response:
-Occams razor. Simple does not = true in the face of complete lack of forensic evidence.
-Appeal to incredulity. Insinuating a conspiracy is too big to believe is not a refutation. It’s just unwillingness to confront what the evidence (or lack thereof) might suggest.

If your assertions were true, we’d see evidence of multiple impacts. We don’t. There’s no crush injury, no multiple blunt force trauma sites consistent with being struck repeatedly by a reversing SUV.

 

[Derph]

It’s infuriating. But I think it’s incredibly simple. If John was not struck by a car, then Karen did not strike him with her car. So to believe KR is guilty, they MUST discredit ARCCA. IMO.

I'm not even talking about what findings ARCCA presented. I'm railing against the fact that the Defense team did not hire them in the 1st trial. I see it constantly mentioned not just here, but other forums as well. It's just not true!

If one disagrees with their findings ( which I don't ) that is their right and I have no problem with that because it's an opinion and everyone is entitled to that.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Makes one rethink every piece of fact on WS we ever thunk about huh? Invest years in a hobby to know nothing.

Karen's defense team has done a great job pointing out inconsistencies and especially in trying to portray JM as the orchestrator of a coverup. JO being in that house is a central, required, part of the story because unless he did enter that house, there is no motive for Jenn to turn from soccer mom, to criminal mastermind and as luck would have it, this part of Karen's story is testable. When you test it, it fails.

The phone GPS data makes it possible for him to have been in the house when the GPS was the most inaccurate. This is absolutely true. However, only a very short time after that, when the accuracy improves, he is in the spot where they found his body and the data continues to report his location in that spot, whenever it has accuracy. There is no accurate GPS data that shows him anywhere else but in the yard where they found him. How clever must Jenn be to look on his phone and put him back in exactly that same spot so the rest of the data wouldn't be inconsistent?

But, throw all that GPS data out... Multiple eye-witnesses didn't see him inside the house, there was a steady loss of temperature in his battery as if he had been out in the cold the whole night, he was completely covered in snow with bare grass underneath him, and there was a complete lack of canine DNA on his clothing.

 

[Wishbone]

I respectfully disagree. We don't know the full details of the hit(s), the falling, if he moved around a bit badly hurt, possibly trying to get up.
AJMO

There are no details of him falling or moving around badly hurt trying to get up because he wasn't hit by a car. JMOO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Something worth revisiting re:the evolution of Katie McLaughlin’s testimony.

In the early reports and interviews, McLaughlin stated she heard Karen Read say “I hit him” at the scene, allegedly TO Jennifer McCabe. That’s already hearsay layered on emotion, but what’s more interesting is how her account expanded over time. Later, McLaughlin added that a police officer also overheard the same statement. That wasn’t in her initial account.
Now, in the second trial, she’s claiming she heard it “multiple times.” That’s a huge shift from one alleged utterance, to multiple, to suddenly including additional witnesses who never documented it themselves. None of the other first responders at the scene backed her version.

 

[Spectrix]

I respectfully disagree. We don't know the full details of the hit(s), the falling, if he moved around a bit badly hurt, possibly trying to get up.

We?
You don't know the details because you haven't watched the trial.
The blunt force trauma to the back of JOK's head was so severe that he was rendered immediately unconscious. He wasn't "moving around a bit badly hurt". He was completely incapacitated.

The only suggestion that he was hit (once, not multiple times) is from the CW, and they have been unable to explain how he didn't sustain ANY injuries consistent with an MVA, nor have they been able to explain how KR's Lexus didn't sustain any damage consistent with running into person.

 

[rescuemom]

Who's experts are those? The defense guy who violated a sequestration order by being filled in on other expert witnesses's testimony before testifying himself? That's a big no-no, but he didn't know, wasn't informed that wasn't allowed? It seems there's been a lot of games being played by the defense and their ARCCA "experts". Doesn't help with their believability and objectivity factors at all, MO. The judge even told them to stop with the nonsense, more than once IIRC?

The AARCA experts were hired by the FBI looking in to this case. IF you watched TRIAL 1 and IF you have watched TRIAL 2 so far you would be up to date and not throwing out frivolous comments.

These AARCA experts are the best of the best and have been cleared to testify again, much to the disappointment of the CW, who BTW had a choice to use them also but declined because their testimony did not and will not work for them in this sham trial. The judge....

 

[keek]

Something worth revisiting re:the evolution of Katie McLaughlin’s testimony.

In the early reports and interviews, McLaughlin stated she heard Karen Read say “I hit him” at the scene, allegedly TO Jennifer McCabe. That’s already hearsay layered on emotion, but what’s more interesting is how her account expanded over time. Later, McLaughlin added that a police officer also overheard the same statement. That wasn’t in her initial account.
Now, in the second trial, she’s claiming she heard it “multiple times.” That’s a huge shift from one alleged utterance, to multiple, to suddenly including additional witnesses who never documented it themselves. None of the other first responders at the scene backed her version.

So, right, the thing is, no POLICE OFFICER was told of this hearing I hit him, at the first trial.