MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #23 Retrial

[mzmarymac]

Yes, a tragic and simple hit (possibly more than one hit) and run, acknowledged over and over again by the driver of the vehicle. There's no wide conspiracy with this case, MO. Are there less than likeable actors involved just by being there, yeah but that doesn't mean KR didn't hit him and then fled the scene, waiting too long to go back.
AJMO

There is absolutely ZERO evidence from ANY source that she said that other than what has come out of JMs mouth. No one has testified that THEY heard the words come out of KRs mouth and none of the numerous recorded phone calls, texts, police car cams records these words. Anyone who said KR said that, heard it from JM, even poor Kerry, who ultimately had to admit her testimony was wrong. So what you are saying is that we should lock this woman up in prison for decades based on the testimony of a woman we KNOW has lied to the FBI, had numerous butt dials, deleted texts and phone calls, and has made herself the central figure in this entire investigation? Everything comes from JM, from the initial interview with Proctor saying KR is a nut job, etc... And of course, had to throw in the information about KRs medical issues just for fun. OK.
JMO

 

[sunshineray]

It’s important to separate legal theatrics from the actual substance of testimony. The ARCCA experts weren’t “defense guys”, they’re independent forensic engineers with decades of credentials, frequently used by government agencies, including the military.

As for the sequestration claim: (1) the order was issued after the communication in question, and (2) neither the prosecution nor the judge moved to strike the expert’s testimony or question his credentials. Calling it a “big no-no” is courtroom dramatics, not disqualifying misconduct - even though Judge Cannone made some dramatic statements, there was no move to strike. Attacking expert witnesses over procedural misunderstandings while ignoring the CW’s concealment of FBI involvement and undisclosed reports is selective outrage, plain and simple.

They were called by the defense and at least one violated the sequestration order, a very common concept. If ine did that, others may have also. A very bad look for their testimony being honest and accurate, MO, you obviously have your own. It's much more than theatrics, it's violating the judhe's order.

 

[Curiousobserver]

In other words, when the data had the least amount of certainty, he could have been in the house. However, when the gps data had the greatest amount of certainty, he never left the spot where they found him. This proves he was in the house. I am not sure we can have kind of serious discussion about the evidence on this thread if this is how evidence is evaluated.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I think it's definitely possible she did, yes, during her 3-point turn, MO.

But how? Like I said, why would the CW not be alleging that rather than a single strike? It’s the realm of fantasy, IMO.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

In other words, when the data had the least amount of certainty, he could have been in the house. However, when the gps data had the greatest amount of certainty, he never left the spot where they found him. This proves he was in the house. I am not sure we can have kind of serious discussion about the evidence on this thread if this is how evidence is evaluated.

No, it proves that the phone data alone is not EBARD of Karen killing him. You’re oversimplifying.

 

[LvsAMystry]

Yes, a tragic and simple hit (possibly more than one hit) and run, acknowledged over and over again by the driver of the vehicle. There's no wide conspiracy with this case, MO. Are there less than likeable actors involved just by being there, yeah but that doesn't mean KR didn't hit him and then fled the scene, waiting too long to go back.
AJMO

My point was there would have had to be more than one hit to account for the multiple areas os marks on the arm assuming they’re from the taillight. That can’t be the case though because JOK would’ve had to remain upright the whole time for his arm to be in proximity of the taillight. This doesn’t match the CW premise of an immediate incapacitating hit

 

[mzmarymac]

Question for the Guilty's: How do you feel about Lucky, the snow plow driver's" testimony that he did NOT see JOKs body on the ground when he first passed the house and the next pass he saw the Ford Edge out there? Was he lying? Mistaken? FYI - I believe he is the only person close to this case that was actually sober that morning.

 

[jepop]

Who's experts are those? The defense guy who violated a sequestration order by being filled in on other expert witnesses's testimony before testifying himself? That's a big no-no, but he didn't know, wasn't informed that wasn't allowed? It seems there's bjmo een a lot of games being played by the defense and their ARCCA "experts". Doesn't help with their believability and objectivity factors at all, MO. The judge even told them to stop with the nonsense, more than once IIRC?

Jmo you might really benefit from watching this trial yourself, reading some balanced reporting where it exists or perhaps watching LYK who gives generally speaking balanced summaries and analysis. This thread is also full of factuai information about ARCCA. There are some very informative posts. Perhaps try @OldCop who posted very recently on the topic. In the meantime, apologies but your statements about ARCCA make no sense to me at all. ARCCA are highly regarded professionals in their field and were commissioned by the DOJ to do an accident reconstruction independently prior to trial X 1. These are basic facts and are not contested. They had and have no skin in the game. Moo

 

[Soulmagent]

In other words, when the data had the least amount of certainty, he could have been in the house. However, when the gps data had the greatest amount of certainty, he never left the spot where they found him. This proves he was in the house. I am not sure we can have kind of serious discussion about the evidence on this thread if this is how evidence is evaluated.

Makes one rethink every piece of fact on WS we ever thunk about huh? Invest years in a hobby to know nothing.

 

[Spectrix]

That is not entirely true, IMO.. There was evidence of trauma (what some believe erroneously, IMO, are dog bites) on John's body. He died from exposure. There was also evidence of a broken tailight found at the scene. There's been absolutely no definitive proof/evidence that Proctor framed KR in any way, shape or form, ALL speculation.

No I've watched and read enough to know what is truth and what is concoction. She was very angry, she hit him with the vehicle probably more than once

- JOK died from a blunt force trauma to the head. Not from 'exposure'.
- There is no evidence that JOK was hit by a vehicle at all. Not even the prosecution have ever mentioned hitting him more than once.

So, you haven't watched the trial, you seem to be unaware of most of the evidence, and now you're in here with a very strong opinion that KR is guilty.

Please, go back and watch the first trial. Not a documentary, not picking and choosing an online article. Watch the witness testimonies in the actual trial. That is where the evidence can be found.

 

[jepop]

It’s important to separate legal theatrics from the actual substance of testimony. The ARCCA experts weren’t “defense guys”, they’re independent forensic engineers with decades of credentials, frequently used by government agencies, including the military.

As for the sequestration claim: (1) the order was issued after the communication in question, and (2) neither the prosecution nor the judge moved to strike the expert’s testimony or question his credentials. Calling it a “big no-no” is courtroom dramatics, not disqualifying misconduct - even though Judge Cannone made some dramatic statements, there was no move to strike. Attacking expert witnesses over procedural misunderstandings while ignoring the CW’s concealment of FBI involvement and undisclosed reports is selective outrage, plain and simple.

Thank you for this.

 

[sunshineray]

I wouldn't use this line of defense as the CW has done so much ,that I see your response and I raise you- one BH trashing a phone in a random bin on a military base. JMO.. tit4tats arent gonna win the CW this case.

That does not a conspiracy to frame make, IMO. It's irrelevant because of what KR did and said. JMO

 

[keek]

Question for the Guilty's: How do you feel about Lucky, the snow plow driver's" testimony that he did NOT see JOKs body on the ground when he first passed the house and the next pass he saw the Ford Edge out there? Was he lying? Mistaken? FYI - I believe he is the only person close to this case that was actually sober that morning.

He is not lying. saying that he saw the edge out there is not a good thing for the Alberts and prosecution. IMO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Thank you for this.

Of course. Honestly, it feels like the roles have reversed: the CW is relying on theatrics, emotional manipulation, and distractions, while the defense is the only one consistently presenting hard forensic analysis. People get so swept up in salacious details and grandstanding that they lose sight of the basics: there is NO definitive forensic evidence tying Karen to John’s injuries. None. And that matters. The defense doesn’t have to prove an alternate theory beyond a reasonable doubt. That’s the prosecution’s job. They had their shot in trial one, and they failed. All that’s needed is reasonable doubt, and the state still hasn’t cleared that bar. MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

There is absolutely ZERO evidence from ANY source that she said that other than what has come out of JMs mouth. No one has testified that THEY heard the words come out of KRs mouth and none of the numerous recorded phone calls, texts, police car cams records these words. Anyone who said KR said that, heard it from JM, even poor Kerry, who ultimately had to admit her testimony was wrong. So what you are saying is that we should lock this woman up in prison for decades based on the testimony of a woman we KNOW has lied to the FBI, had numerous butt dials, deleted texts and phone calls, and has made herself the central figure in this entire investigation? Everything comes from JM, from the initial interview with Proctor saying KR is a nut job, etc... And of course, had to throw in the information about KRs medical issues just for fun. OK.
JMO

She said it and she said it to JM, whom I believe is telling the truth. I think John's Mom is also telling the truth. MO After seeing KR in that doc, I can see why JM would think she's a <modsnip- namecalling>, especially affter KR's messages to John. MO

 

[Soulmagent]

That does not a conspiracy to frame make, IMO. It's irrelevant because of what KR did and said. JMO

Your not gonna get me to fight against your opinion.

I was merely letting you know your line of reasoning ,would not work well. And gave an example.

 

[tara83]

She said it and she said it to JM, whom I believe is telling the truth. I think John's Mom is also telling the truth. MO After seeing KR in that doc, I can see why JM would think she's a <modsnip-namecalling>, especially affter KR's messages to John. MO

So you believe J despite her being caught in lies?

 

[Wishbone]

Who's experts are those? The defense guy who violated a sequestration order by being filled in on other expert witnesses's testimony before testifying himself? That's a big no-no, but he didn't know, wasn't informed that wasn't allowed? It seems there's been a lot of games being played by the defense and their ARCCA "experts". Doesn't help with their believability and objectivity factors at all, MO. The judge even told them to stop with the nonsense, more than once IIRC?

If I had to answer who's experts they are, I would have to say they are the FBI's.

 

[sunshineray]

But how? Like I said, why would the CW not be alleging that rather than a single strike? It’s the realm of fantasy, IMO.

A conspiracy that includes multitudes of people is the fantasy, MO. What happened to John was a tragic but simple hit and run, during cold weather in poor visibility...with an angry drunk driver at the wheel. MO

 

[keek]

That does not a conspiracy to frame make, IMO. It's irrelevant because of what KR did and said. JMO

Higgins did a lot more than that. Including using another man to also manipulate his phone. All discussed at the first trial with Higgins on the stand. You need to watch the entire trial or otherwise uninformed, important technical information from experts, whose careers are just these things, are not credible input to those who have. IMO>