MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #24 Retrial

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  • #481
I notice many people in this forum quote their sources of information and link clips to what they are arguing. I haven't seen any clips or sources referenced from you. I have asked for them. It could really enhance your argument. It's liking writing an argumentative essay but backing up your point with documented references.
I have tried to link where needed and always clarify it's MO, IMO, JMO and AJMO...with redundancy. I'm by no means writing essays, just thoughts, as if I was discussing face to face.

If I've missed something you think you need linked please either ask me and I will try and clarify but If you don't want to ask you can report.
 
  • #482
The testimony of the number of times Karen called and texted John makes clear to me she believed he was with another woman. When she woke up in the morning she pieced together the events of the prior evening and realized he was dead. The night was a blur because she was in a blackout from drinking. They fought and she was in a rage and backed up and hit him whether accidentally or on purpose.

The defense has muddied the waters with all the conspiracy and dog attack theories that she will most likely not be found guilty of any charges.

MO
 
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  • #483
The testimony of the number of times Karen called and texted John makes clear to me that she believed he was with another woman. When she woke up in the morning she pieced together the events of the prior evening and realized he was dead. The night was a blur because she was in a blackout from drinking. They fought and she was in a rage and backed up and hit him whether accidentally or on purpose.

The defense has muddied the waters with all the conspiracy and dog attack theories that she will most likely not be found guilty of any charges.

MO
I still hope the added insight into KR gained this trial by the prosecution's use of her own words and demeanor, from interviews she's done, will help to clear up some of that muddy mess. MO
 
  • #484
An unlikeable women, polarized public, media appearances which was used against her.

A less-than-professional response from police, including one of them who moved the baby's clothing without first having it photographed, was followed by equally lackadaisical performances from other professionals. Professor James Cameron, the acclaimed British forensic pathologist, sternly proclaimed he could discern the print of the "bloodied" hand of a young adult on the jumpsuit. As it was later conceded, he had not tested whether the material was blood. It wasn't.

A "spray pattern" identified on the dashboard of the Chamberlains' Torana hatchback was asserted as evidence of arterial spurting from the baby as she was having her throat cut. That "spray" was not blood at all. It was bituminous sound-deadener inadvertently applied during manufacture of the vehicle. So far off were the scientific opinions that the core of the court battle was whether the "blood" contained foetal hemoglobin. Only towards the end of that trial, when a similar spray pattern was found in another Torana hatchback, did the thought arise there might not have been any blood at all, but by that time the argument had gone too far in the other direction.

I was mainly explaining my distrust of prosecution forensics and a incompetent police.
That case was 45 years years ago, a universe away from today's forensics. Leaps and bounds have been made since then, thank goodness!
 
  • #485
Is there a Timeline anywhere here?
 
  • #486
The blood was found on top of the snow....so the snow had been dug up and pushed around before the collection. And I find the close up photo of the tail light at Meadows very suspicious.
When Karen pulled out of the driveway, looked like lights were all red. No white so tail light only cracked. imo
 
  • #487
And the day starts with a side-bah, what else?

ETA: I've noticed lots of comments about KR thinking she's an attorney or acting like an attorney and why does SHE get to go the side-bahs? I have not seen this often, but Ashley Benefield, who was accused and convicted in FL of killing her husband, also participated in side-bahs. So it DOES happen, although not common if what I watch is any indication.
 
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  • #488
I find the close up photo of the tail light at Meadows very suspicious.
When Karen pulled out of the driveway, looked like lights were all red. No white so tail light only cracked. imo

You're talking about the white of an incandescent globe which is simply not applicable in this case.
The tail lights on modern cars including the Lexus LX570 have banks of red LEDs.
 
  • #489
I agree.

I didn't watch the first trial. I am trying to keep up this time. I of course can read all the comments here that pertain to the 1st trial. I see this hostility (my perception) toward Karen from some here and I don't agree with that. I think she is a victim here too EVEN IF she backed into JOK and that caused his death. She lost someone she loved.

I don't know what exactly happened to JOK, but what is clear to me is there are many people in this story that I find dishonest and this was NOT investigated correctly.

I don't get the idea that KR did anything intentionally, if she did hit him. She was drinking and driving, but JOK chose to get in a car with her as she did so and he was drunk as well. How many others were drinking at the bar that night and drove to the party? How many drank at the party and then drove home? I expect more from LEOs.

It's hard to say why people are deleting texts and calls and why stories are changing or things are remembered later that were never said before, but I think when you mix a lot of alcohol into the equation, what else do you expect? I have a hard stance on alcohol because I was hit by a drunk driver.. there is zero excuse for it. I also think many people that night likely were doing exactly what Karen did. Maybe none of them know exactly what happened to JOK, but pinning it on KR sure will take the weight off of them. People knew he was coming and never looked for him?

Honestly listening to some of the testimony and knowing the actions of some of these people just reminds me of middle school dramatics. Where are the adults here?
People knew he was coming and never looked for him —/ GREAT point! He was encouraged to come over, Jen was texting and calling him on the way over. Texting him where to park at 12:27/12:31 Then, out of the 7 (at least) people at Fairview, none of them called (and left a voicemail), looked outside, or called Karen….
Of course, there was that string of unanswered calls from JenMc 12:40/12:42/12:45 but she didn’t leave a voicemail message like ‘what happened?’ ‘Where are you?’ ‘Did you and Karen leave without me seeing?’
ODD
Something is screwy with this timeline…
And the day starts with a side-bah, what else?

ETA: I've noticed lots of comments about KR thinking she's an attorney or acting like an attorney and why does SHE get to go the side-bahs? I have not seen this often, but Ashley Benefield, who was accused and convicted in FL of killing her husband, also participated in side-bahs. So it DOES happen, although not common if what I watch is any indication.
yes, LYK has said several times that it is right of the defendant to participate in side bahs
 
  • #490
I'm looking forward to when the defense calls Brian Higgins.
I think he did a a lot of damage to the CW's case in the first trial.
Especially the 2 calls records show he got from BA at 2 am something, on the early morning of JOK's death.

BH said he never spoke with BA and of course they were those ole' butt calls.
imo


 
  • #491
I'm looking forward to when the defense calls Brian Higgins.
I think he did a a lot of damage to the CW's case in the first trial.
Especially the 2 calls he got from BA at 2 am something, on the early morning of JOK's death.
imo


Really? How so? I sorta felt bad for him. He seemed like a nice guy.
Edit - although I do agree the butt dials seem unlikely
 
  • #492
The photography leaves much to be desired.
I see the tennis shoe/has it been forensically processed in any way?Compared to the other shoe?
 
  • #493
You're talking about the white of an incandescent globe which is simply not applicable in this case.
The tail lights on modern cars including the Lexus LX570 have banks of red LEDs.
So all the light bulbs were red?
 
  • #494
Connor Keefe is up. MSP trooper.
 
  • #495
The seals on these bags had already been cut open during Trial 1 and they're making out like it's the first time opening them up. What do they do, seal the bags up again with fresh tape? Do they then mark on them the date(s) they were opened up previously for viewing? It seems like a lot of handling of these pieces. And the shoe looks very clean.
 
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  • #496
Yanetti on cross with Trooper Keefe.

Keefe testified he received Kerry Roberts and Jen McCabe’s cell phone. Yanetti is asking about JM’s phone in particular. JM signed a consent form allowing LE to conduct device extraction.

On the consent form, there is a description of the phone - an iPhone 11 with Jen’s IMEI. The form was signed by JM and Trooper Keefe. A second trooper also signed.

Yanetti: ‘With regard to the timing of the signing of that form - JM dated it 2/2/22’. Trooper Keefe did as well - 2/2/22 at 12:08PM.

So Jen had almost 5 days between John’s death and her phone being extracted. I wonder if that’s when she deleted all those calls to John?
 
  • #497
I have tried to link where needed and always clarify it's MO, IMO, JMO and AJMO...with redundancy. I'm by no means writing essays, just thoughts, as if I was discussing face to face.

If I've missed something you think you need linked please either ask me and I will try and clarify but If you don't want to ask you can report.
I think reporting is a bit like tattle telling. I'd rather see data to make your argument stronger. No need for an essay, just citing a source. I'm not a pro at it either and yes you are allowed to speak your mind here. That's what makes democracy great and encourages intellectual growth. There are two sides to every coin. Thank you for your explanation.
 
  • #498
Want to know what is sad? Even if she is found NG on all charges, you just know that his brother is still going to go after her in civil court for wrongful death.
He had better quit while he is ahead. I know he is devastated by his brother's death but go after the real culprits. She has nothing left.
He ought to partner with her in civil court to go after any and all who caused or covered up this event
 
  • #499
Really? How so? I sorta felt bad for him. He seemed like a nice guy.
Edit - although I do agree the butt dials seem unlikely
Had the ATF agent been on the up and up and not destroyed evidence I also would have had some sympathy for him over the text messages with KR that were entered as evidence and read during the 1st trial.

Nice guy or not he asked a fellow ATF agent about extracting text messages with KR under the guise
of wanting to turn them over to LE.
He drove to Otis Military Base to destroy and dump his cell phone.
imo

 
  • #500
Not understanding defense’s cross examinations of some of the witnesses - cross of Mr. Gilman, meteorologist not necessary in my opinion.

Cross of Trooper Keefe (on the stand now), so iPhone 11Pro used by JMc reveals IOS version, serial number, IMEI, okay, moving on…
Nice point though made by defense that KerR and JMc both willingly gave their phone info up to LE with no issue.

We shall see...
opinion all mine
 
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