MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #25 Retrial

[HarmonyE.]

Not sure I buy any theory at this point but backing the idea that if an altercation happened it happened outside.

1) Jen Mccabe testimony included a line to the effect that people inside had nothing to do with what happened outside. It sounded odd when she said it.
2) John's shoe has undone. Cars don't untie shoes, they might take a shoe of, but they don't untie laces Prosecution has highlighted when was fastidious about taking his shoes off in a house. It could be viewed that John's was in the process of entering house, and had untied one shoe, when the incident occurred.

It could have happened outside or in the garage, but John's body was almost certainly not put on the lawn until later as Lucky (a fully independent witness) didn't see a body on the lawn at around 3 am but did later see an SUV blocking his view of where John's body was later found. And of course, none of the endless parade of visitors, from Higgins to Morris saw a body either.

None of witnesses in the Nagel vehicle saw anything happen on the front lawn, and John going out to back yard wouldn't make much sense. It's fenced and gated and there really was no reason for anyone to be out there in the cold. Unfortunately, the online blueprints of the house don't show the garage, so I'm not sure if there was even a door in the garage to get from the front to the back yard without entering the house.

Regarding the shoe, Brian Albert had been a cop for a long time and surely saw/knew of pedestrian accidents where the pedestrian was hit so hard they were knocked out of their shoes. If, as I believe, he staged this to look like a hit and run, taking off a shoe could have part of that staging.

 

[waldojabba]

Think higgins got there first as he said something about snowplowing the driveway when the a's got there after him.

Higgins plowing the driveway made absolutely no sense as there was no snow to plow unless he wanted to use the excuse he did - that he could not see a body bc of the snow bank - no snow bank existed. I say get him back on the stand ! jmo

 

[cocomod]

I am excited to see what the defense offers this time! I have a feeling they will be loaded this time with some surprises thrown in we aren’t even completely aware of. Their cross examinations blow the CW case out of the water. The first trial, they didn’t need to offer much to show he wasn’t hit by a vehicle, so I feel like they took pity on the jury and kept their defense somewhat light (especially since they blew the CW’s case during the prosecution). I think they may present more this time since they want to hit it out of the park this time. I look forward to their case. As always, this video (before Proctor took control of her vehicle) shows a cracked taillight, not a broken one!

 

[HarmonyE.]

Higgins plowing the driveway made absolutely no sense as there was no snow to plow unless he wanted to use the excuse he did - that he could not see a body bc of the snow bank - no snow bank existed. I say get him back on the stand ! jmo

Oh, he'll be back. "Bank" on it! Jackson's licking his chops as we speak.

 

[keek]

It's not a high crime area, but I live a few miles away and always lock our car doors because every few years there are kids who roam around opening unlocked car doors in the middle of the night and stealing loose change or items left in cars. They didn't break windows. Maybe the Alberts weren't concerned about that, BUT

Not locking their house? Don't believe it for a second. Brian Albert wasn't just any cop, he was the head of a Boston fugitive unit. Even starred in an episode of a TNT reality show called "Boston's Finest". The idea that someone like him wouldn't be careful about locking doors strains credulity to the breaking point. IMO.

Exactly, most have the lock on their key fobs, beepbeep, AUTOMATIC you lock it unless that donut story is even true, he remembered to keep his car door unlocked to receive his yearly bd. box o' donuts from auntie. None of this makes sense and prob not true at all. Just a reason to be there, period. Set a scene up so that she is there first thing, in a miserable and cold snow blowing storm. SORRY neph, I won't be delivering your DONUTS TILL LATER when the storm is done and all is plowed and I feel like going out. IMO

 

[keek]

He testified he had one! Recent Christmas gift. Just never got around to bothering to install it.

Sure thing.

Makes no sense of course, considering. IMO

 

[keek]

Check out the comments about Brain "Lucky" Loughran.
He's the winner according to the public jury.
imo

His brother though is also a selectman with C. Albert, sitting there. How does that go after the whole thing and ongoing thing. IMO

 

[waldojabba]

What you write makes sense to me, but I find it sad and quite disturbing that in reality perhaps only a minority can be expected to understand the concept of BARD, the prosecutor's burden and have the willingness to put aside bias and apply the faculty of reason to evidence. Or if not this, then perhaps choose to just ride with the more outspoken jurors and follow their lead. It's so cynical but perhaps it is just realistic, idk.

At trial x1 though, the info from the jurors who spoke out was that they were hung nine guilty, three not guilty on the manslaughter charge, not the murder charge. On the murder charge, the last jury had apparently understood the CW had not met their burden to prove intent. Imo.

But that doesn't change the fact nine out of twelve apparently believed a vehicle impact had occurred. That is worrisome. Jmo

ETA I wanted to add l don't think the jurors last time needed to understand physics or advanced math (I don't) to appreciate the scientific value of the expert testimony. I thought the evidence was presented in layperson language and unpacked to make it comprehensible for the average person. Jmo

Agree its a sad commentary but it was my experience - I am sure not reflective of all juries. Living closeby and having worked with many locals for years in a corporate setting, I believe its pretty accurate and realistic.
Maybe it's just that I am more aware as I age, but I have found that corruption and the lack of a stong moral center have become more prevalent and more acceptable IME/IMO

 

[keek]

This “Blue Wall” that’s been brought up and claimed by the defense is a bit exaggerated, I will say….maybe in Massachusetts it’s a “thing” not in Ga that I’ve ever heard of or seen…:that said, is public safety a “ brotherhood/sisterhood” close knit group, yes! Policing is not a “clock in/ clock out, go home and forget about day type of career. You can’t just “clock out” of dealing with child molestaions, rapes, murders etc etc… you can’t leave that at the office so to speak…only those who deal with these and many other inhumane crazy, plain ol psychos can understand. As with ALL human beings, no matter their title, career , race or religion…WE ALL share some form of bias in our lives..intentionally or subconsciously..:however this case has shown a whole new level of obvious cover ups to say the least…:is there “ professional courtesy” known in law enforcement, absolutely! What do I mean by “professional courtesy “? Meaning we all know someone or have done it ourselves…get pulled over and get a speeding ticket, call your cousin or ex classmate who’s an officer or related too and ask for help getting it taken care of….officers or CONSTANTLY called for “favors” when someone needs it if able, or hear “name drops” all the time ….is all if this RIGHT? Maybe, maybe not! But don’t think it doesn’t happen in medical offices, airlines , construction work etc etc…happens everywhere and all the time!

It def does happen in all areas, small ones, one hand washes the other kind of thing or understands a priority over someone else in a med office due to knowing the fam situation etc. THIS though is an out and out coverup of a huge and deadly situation. NO value of others lives for sure. NO comparison on any level. You see this though. Understand for sure about taking it home, lots of careers leave the day on your mind and you have to learn to compartmentalize but it is always there for sure, some brutally worse than others. This one the arrogance just EXPLODES out of them all. D.A down to even EMT's and my God, do they see the worst as first responders as well, one such as this LE officer from their own town, a healthy and young guy, with two kids he is guardian over. IMO

 

[K9T2L]

Exactly. And we must remember the grand jury was all about Karen so he probably thought he was cleverly just covering his arse in the event someone else might later say they saw John head into the house.

Grand Jury’s are one sided hearings…I never understood or agreed with how that one way street was in the name of “justice”…

I’ve testified in more than can remember, it’s literally ( in Ga anyway) 25 random citizens ( or jury of suspects peers) that are called to sit on this “jury for 3 months and that’s all they do is come in every 2-3 weeks and listen to the STATE PROSECUTOR make their claim and call officers involved to sit and literally read the report they wrote when incident took place, look up at jury and ask “ any questions, that’s it…. They then check “no bill or “true bill” beside each case listed …no bill means not enough to charge and bring to trail, true bill means move forward, take warrants and arrest or re arrest suspect to perpare for trail …:no defense attorneys, no suspect side of story, ONLY State witness that can , and have many times, go in and say whatever they want, true or not, fabricated or not , and hold a citizen suspects freedom in their hands…..only time defense attorneys are allowed is if the suspect is an officer being looked at for officer involved shooting, use of force or other misconduct…..nearly 20 years of my life has been spent in the very judicial system that has some serious flaws that will not/cNnot be changed unless legislative branch and local politicians and law makers make the change ….GOOD LUCK …u less of course it’s their ass on the suspect hot seat……just my opinion

 

[keek]

I spent time with an emergency room nurse this weekend. She has no knowledge of this case. I pullled up autopsy photos of OJO, with zero commentary from me, she immediately said the arm was dog bite injury.

She said something interesting to me about the head wound. She said most people that fall have a vertical cut, not horizontal. She said she didn’t know why, but that has been in her 15 years of emergency room experience. She said she would be more inclined to think the head injury is from a corner or a strike from behind.

Again, I told her absolutely nothing about the case. I just asked for her opinion based on her experience. I found it enlightening.

Oh yes, this is a deep, deadly horizontal on the top area, back of his head. It's a hit, a hard hit with force to me. JOK was tall so I would think the person came up behind him with the weapon with a powerful arm. Would they have to be about as tall as he or close to it ? I'd think if picturing it. IMO.

 

[keek]

Agree its a sad commentary but it was my experience - I am sure not reflective of all juries. Living closeby and having worked with many locals for years in a corporate setting, I believe its pretty accurate and realistic.
Maybe it's just that I am more aware as I age, but I have found that corruption and the lack of a stong moral center have become more prevalent and more acceptable IME/IMO

I see it very much myself, very much. Insta gratification, fast paced lives, rush, rush rush, eye on the gold hoop or whatever. VERY and horribly different than even 20 tops years ago. IMO

 

[Malleeboy]

I am excited to see what the defense offers this time! I have a feeling they will be loaded this time with some surprises thrown in we aren’t even completely aware of. Their cross examinations blow the CW case out of the water. The first trial, they didn’t need to offer much to show he wasn’t hit by a vehicle, so I feel like they took pity on the jury and kept their defense somewhat light (especially since they blew the CW’s case during the prosecution). I think they may present more this time since they want to hit it out of the park this time. I look forward to their case. As always, this video (before Proctor took control of her vehicle) shows a cracked taillight, not a broken one!
View attachment 585334

All that Fed evidence that they didn't fully have the time to understand last time. Feds can get evidence that Defence would never have a chance of recovering.

 

[Mony Mony]

Not sure what he would have plowed as the CW's own expert testified the snow accumulation was so little you could just make out cat tracks.

Of course, it fits with his lie that the snowbank he created would have blocked his view of John's body on the lawn when he left.

This nonsense would be hilarious if a woman's life wasn't on the line.

So I think Karen likely hit JOK, but I still have some small doubts. My second theory is Higgins accidentally struck JOK when he was hotdogging with the snowplow clearing the driveway.

 

[Malleeboy]

Grand Jury’s are one sided hearings…I never understood or agreed with how that one way street was in the name of “justice”…

I’ve testified in more than can remember, it’s literally ( in Ga anyway) 25 random citizens ( or jury of suspects peers) that are called to sit on this “jury for 3 months and that’s all they do is come in every 2-3 weeks and listen to the STATE PROSECUTOR make their claim and call officers involved to sit and literally read the report they wrote when incident took place, look up at jury and ask “ any questions, that’s it…. They then check “no bill or “true bill” beside each case listed …no bill means not enough to charge and bring to trail, true bill means move forward, take warrants and arrest or re arrest suspect to perpare for trail …:no defense attorneys, no suspect side of story, ONLY State witness that can , and have many times, go in and say whatever they want, true or not, fabricated or not , and hold a citizen suspects freedom in their hands…..only time defense attorneys are allowed is if the suspect is an officer being looked at for officer involved shooting, use of force or other misconduct…..nearly 20 years of my life has been spent in the very judicial system that has some serious flaws that will not/cNnot be changed unless legislative branch and local politicians and law makers make the change ….GOOD LUCK …u less of course it’s their on the suspect hot seat……just my opinion

Grand Juries have ceased to be used through the rest of common law countries. In Australia for example, an explained death goes to a coronial court (a coroner's court) to determine what caused the death, only once coroner has ruled on the manner of death, can the criminal case be then begun. In this case the failure of the medical examiner to rule it car accident, would have meant no trial.

 

[HarmonyE.]

So I think Karen likely hit JOK, but I still have some small doubts. My second theory is Higgins accidentally struck JOK when he was hotdogging with the snowplow clearing the driveway.

Higgins' Jeep was almost certainly parked in the driveway when John got out of Read's vehicle.

None of the three witnesses saw it moving or saw it parked on the street where they waited for Julie Nagel to come out of the house. They did see Karen's car though. With her alone in it.

And there was no snow to be cleared at the time. Testimony by a prosecution hired meteorologist. It's a lie Higgins told to support his claim that the fake snow bank he created must have blocked his view of John's body on the lawn.

 

[keek]

Higgins' Jeep was almost certainly parked in the driveway when John got out of Read's vehicle.

None of the three witnesses saw it moving or saw it parked on the street where they waited for Julie Nagel to come out of the house. They did see Karen's car though. With her alone in it.

And there was no snow to be cleared at the time. Testimony by a prosecution hired meteorologist. It's a lie Higgins told to support his claim that the fake snow bank he created must have blocked his view of John's body on the lawn.

That plow would of made that loud scraping sound after MIDNIGHT if he did 'plow' that driveway. I say that because there was no snow, if anything, due to the temps, barely a random coating. Why would he throw that bit in. He was all drunk so maybe for 'fun' since he did have the jeep with the plow attached. The neighbors would not of been pleased and wonder what in SAM ADAMS is going on? Sure they hear a lot of noise after midnight at that house, and all LE buds etc. IMO>

 

[HarmonyE.]

That plow would of made that loud scraping sound after MIDNIGHT if he did 'plow' that driveway. The neighbors would not of been pleased and wonder what in SAM ADAMS is going on? Sure they hear a lot of noise after midnight at that house, and all LE buds etc. IMO>

Nor did the hear the sound of a 220 pound man being struck by a 3 ton SUV. Or a Jeep, for that matter. Must all be very hard of hearing.

 

[Malleeboy]

So I think Karen likely hit JOK, but I still have some small doubts. My second theory is Higgins accidentally struck JOK when he was hotdogging with the snowplow clearing the driveway.

Mony Mony,

Interested to hear your understanding on:

1) Lack of body injuries that would normally following a 25mph car accident? (eg no broken bones or bruising below should level on the body)
2) Lack of car damage that would normally following a 25mph car accident?
3) Body and taillight pieces being flung at 90% to the line of momentum of the car? The head is 10% of the body weight and arm is 5% of body weight, force from the car must move the other 85% of the body weight. Arm impact would be backwards if the arm was in line with body, or spin the body if arm was to side of body, Head impact is above the center of body s body would be knocked down.

I played Australian Football, where bumping people from various angles is part of the sport. (Unlike rugby or American football were people generally run towards each other AFL tackling or bumbing is from any direction) I have sent people flying through the air, but it involved my centre of mass impacting their centre of mass. Impacting an arm spins the person, A head impacts spins the head towards the ground. (Although you'll get suspended for that)

 

[Izzylizzy]

Think higgins got there first as he said something about snowplowing the driveway when the a's got there after him.

I heard BH claim that too and it's a head scratchier because there wasn't enough snow to plow.
When JM & MM left with the 2 gals about 1:45 you could still see the lawn and bricks on the walkway.
Did he have Junior and his birthday guests move their cars out of the driveway?
Nope.