MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #26 Retrial

[waldojabba]

No one is saying they are lying.

What are your thoughts on the ARCCA conclusions @mrjitty ? I am clear on your position cncerning the tail light pieces but I don't believe I know your position on ARCCA's conclusions.
JMO

 

[K9T2L]

My guess is the dog entered the fray after the humans began fighting.

The sparks of the altercation can be seen in the Waterfall video, from just a few minutes before everyone converged atvFairview.

Chloe, the Germ Shepherd/Mix with history of aggressive behaviors towards “strangers and other dogs” may have just been let out to pee/poop, drunk owners could have forgot they let her out so Chloe came up to door to get let in, nobody did so she laid down at foot of door, John, potentially a “stranger” in Chloe’s orbit per numerous witness statements that John had not been to residence before this night which would lead a reasonable person to beleive John and Cleo are unfamiliar with each other….John being intoxicated, stumbles up steps, startles or possibly even accidentally stepped on tail/paw etc of sleeping Chloe , K9 defense and prey drive kick in , Chloe , by her very nature as a germ Shep, is highly territorial (most dogs are to some level) she attacks John, John slips, falls trying to get away and hits head, Cloe still grabbing and biting arm area , John takes off running through yard drunk, dazed, potentially bad injury to head , and runs towards a Lexus SUV that’s now driving off down street, John gets close enough to Karen who’s operating that SUV , she can’t see or hear John running towards her , John takes glass he was carrying with some drink in it and throws is at SUV to get her attention, glass hits the tail light , cracks it and shatters glass…John struggling , injured body collapses in his final, unfortunate resting place in yard near flag pole….

Reasonable Doubt has clearly been established that this theory is a very reasonable possibility and doesn’t go against a reasonable, logical human beings ability of processing /eliminating other factors that contradict what the state is attempting to prove BEYOND ANY AND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT, which is needed to convict

1. Dog owners are just as responsible and liable for their dogs and can be held to same accountability as that same owner having a gun in house and a child gets ahold of it….criminally/civilly liable . This theory provides room for any reasonable person to question the true motive behind “re homing “ or “getting rid of” a family dog they have owned for “6-7 ywars “ within days of this incident

 

[Soulmagent]

No one is saying they are lying.

Tons of people are saying just that.

 

[lohrtabitha]

I wasn't making an argument. I was making a post about the jury having a hard time with what the CW is dishing out.

Here is the thing. No pieces of taillight were uncovered by Gallagher early that morning. The pieces of taillight that were recovered were found at 6pm. Between the early morning and 6pm is a long enough window for the pieces to have been planted. JM told EVERYONE, including Brian Albert that morning, that KR thinks she hit him. That gives him or any of the others an ample amount of time to set the scene. If you had read the timeline of police corruption in MA I posted some threads back, I hope you would realize that yes in this state a lot of corruption has happened and it happened in this case too. Who planted the taillight pieces? Well who put the rock for the jurors to see on the lawn? We will probably never know these answers. Also, why didn't anyone record or report the depth of snow that these pieces were found at? Oh, never mind I forgot, they didn't like reports. MOO

What happened in the Karen Read case? Timeline of investigations, trials

As the second trial against Karen Read concludes, there’s a lot to keep in mind — from the hours before John O’Keefe’s death three years ago to her acquittal on all charges besides operating under the influence.

www.nbcboston.com

 

[minazoe]

I think this case is going nowhere. The prosecution has to explain how Jon was hit. that's the crux.
you can put a body in a ravine and claim they jumped. but lets see the proof..recreate the accident.

I started out thinking it all went down in the house at the first trial. now I think she hit him. but I need to see how...that's not my job, it's the prosecutions job...so show it, otherwise I'm back to Jon busting his head in that house and a scene ensuing. This becomes a crime of drunken chaos with everyone's recollections in question.

mOO

 

[lohrtabitha]

It says a couple were touching the asphalt, so that is the road.

Oh please, those dirty troopers and police officers were planting pieces of taillights like they were hiding easter eggs! MOO

 

[sds71]

Two sources confirm to WBZ that Karen Read is sick, which is the unavoidable circumstance that canceled court today. We have not received a scheduling update for the rest of the week.

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[lohrtabitha]

So was John wearing a suit of armor when he was supposed to be hit by a car? How would a taillight break into around 40 pieces after hitting one lone person? Plus the man had no broken bones. Tell me again why I should believe this?

And if you think about it, human body tissue aka skin is soft. So in my mind there is no way the tail light would have broken into so many pieces. A bone is hard tissue but I cant recall the coroner saying he had a broken bone. I do remember looking at the arm and seeing long, deep claw marks though. MOO

 

[Soulmagent]

I think this case is going nowhere. The prosecution has to explain how Jon was hit. that's the crux.
you can put a body in a ravine and claim they jumped. but lets see the proof..recreate the accident.

I started out thinking it all went down in the house at the first trial. now I think she hit him. but I need to see how...that's not my job, it's the prosecutions job...so show it, otherwise I'm back to Jon busting his head in that house and a scene ensuing. This becomes a crime of drunken chaos with everyone's recollections in question.

mOO

I kinda thought it could have been possible she hit him at first, but I no longer believe it a possibility.
Had she actually hit him ,we would not need all the lies. Plus the taillight was on her truck as John froze to death and that search I believe did happen at 237 am .
Jen called John almost as much as KR did that night. Why Jen? Just to run your mouth 200 calls per minute?

 

[DustysMom]

Someone on this thread recommended a ytube video by Microdots - Decoding the Waterfall. WOW! Worth the view! Microdots has a series on the KR case and they are very well done.
Between these videos and yesterday’s clips of BH in the PD parking lot, I am convinced he is he is responsible in some way for JO’s death and cover up. Just a few days ago, I posted that ‘I felt sorry for him/seemed like a nice guy’. Boy, was I wrong!

 

[Tortoise]

Oh please, those dirty troopers and police officers were planting pieces of taillights like they were hiding easter eggs! MOO

There's no evidence that SERT, or anyone, planted anything. MOO

Cases aren't built on conjecture. The SERT witness was not impeached.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Here is the thing. No pieces of taillight were uncovered by Gallagher early that morning. The pieces of taillight that were recovered were found at 6pm. Between the early morning and 6pm is a long enough window for the pieces to have been planted. JM told EVERYONE, including Brian Albert that morning, that KR thinks she hit him. That gives him or any of the others an ample amount of time to set the scene. If you had read the timeline of police corruption in MA I posted some threads back, I hope you would realize that yes in this state a lot of corruption has happened and it happened in this case too. Who planted the taillight pieces? Well who put the rock for the jurors to see on the lawn? We will probably never know these answers. Also, why didn't anyone record or report the depth of snow that these pieces were found at? Oh, never mind I forgot, they didn't like reports. MOO

What happened in the Karen Read case? Timeline of investigations, trials

As the second trial against Karen Read concludes, there’s a lot to keep in mind — from the hours before John O’Keefe’s death three years ago to her acquittal on all charges besides operating under the influence.

www.nbcboston.com

Oh and this was responding to Mr. Jitty but I hit the wrong button. So Mr. Jitty?

 

[lohrtabitha]

There's no evidence that SERT, or anyone, planted anything. MOO

Do you honestly think there would be evidence? Think about all the missing and deleted evidence in this case. Did you read the timeline about police corruption in that state? It was taken from a newspaper site. Don't you think that most citizens in that state know about all the police corruption in that state? I can guarantee you that the jurors know. MOO

 

[Angelwatch]

It says a couple were touching the asphalt, so that is the road.

My bad, you're right. Two of the 47 pieces were touching asphalt. Only 2 pieces landed near the apparent collision site. In a collision, you'd see random scattering of pieces around the site of impact. The structured scattering doesn't fit with a collision, but it does fit with planting of evidence.

 

[Soulmagent]

My bad, you're right. Two of the 47 pieces were touching asphalt. Only 2 pieces landed near the apparent collision site. In a collision, you'd see random scattering of pieces around the site of impact. The structured scattering doesn't fit with a collision, but it does fit with planting of evidence.

I have wrecked a car or two in my time ,and I have backed into a few things. When I have hit something with my tail lights ,there is always a mark left from the object I hit on my lens. No matter if it fell out or not. Also I have hit things and thought I broke a light ,yet I didnt.

 

[ShadyLady]

Was Michael Proctor at the sally port when Karen's Lexus was brought in?

If yes, well, anything is possible.

I wish they could find who edited the sally port video!!

 

[PamCake]

Here is the thing. No pieces of taillight were uncovered by Gallagher early that morning. The pieces of taillight that were recovered were found at 6pm. Between the early morning and 6pm is a long enough window for the pieces to have been planted. JM told EVERYONE, including Brian Albert that morning, that KR thinks she hit him. That gives him or any of the others an ample amount of time to set the scene. If you had read the timeline of police corruption in MA I posted some threads back, I hope you would realize that yes in this state a lot of corruption has happened and it happened in this case too. Who planted the taillight pieces? Well who put the rock for the jurors to see on the lawn? We will probably never know these answers. Also, why didn't anyone record or report the depth of snow that these pieces were found at? Oh, never mind I forgot, they didn't like reports. MOO

What happened in the Karen Read case? Timeline of investigations, trials

As the second trial against Karen Read concludes, there’s a lot to keep in mind — from the hours before John O’Keefe’s death three years ago to her acquittal on all charges besides operating under the influence.

www.nbcboston.com

There were some pieces of taillight that DID NOT match the others, nor did they fit into the re-creation of the taillight. Might these have been the ones discovered by SERT at 34F the evening of the 29th? Maybe someone got some random pieces and planted them....

 

[lohrtabitha]

There were some pieces of taillight that DID NOT match the others, nor did they fit into the re-creation of the taillight. Might these have been the ones discovered by SERT at 34F the evening of the 29th? Maybe someone got some random pieces and planted them....

That is right. I thought I remembered that.

 

[ShadyLady]

And if you think about it, human body tissue aka skin is soft. So in my mind there is no way the tail light would have broken into so many pieces. A bone is hard tissue but I cant recall the coroner saying he had a broken bone. I do remember looking at the arm and seeing long, deep claw marks though. MOO

I think in a contest between bone and tail light.....tail light wins. Bones break imo.

 

[mrjitty]

What are your thoughts on the ARCCA conclusions @mrjitty ? I am clear on your position cncerning the tail light pieces but I don't believe I know your position on ARCCA's conclusions.
JMO

I am waiting to hear Aperture vs ARCCA