MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #27 Retrial

[mrjitty]

Have any locals done the drive to find out hos long it takes to drive from 34 Fairview to Meadows?

Yes. A local did it recently in just under 4 mins.

Anyone can find the video. I’ve come to the conclusion 4 mins 30 is completely doable on empty roads without any excessive speed but that is only my opinion.

MOO

 

[jepop]

How is this issue with expert witnesses not a never ending circle?

Shouldn't there be an eventual end to it? Otherwise, CW gets to do more research, then that goes to the Defense, then ARRCA...

And now the whole CW change in theory that clock times are inaccurate even though CW expert witness have testified to them & Defense has used that info in their entire case strategy?

How is any of this remedied? Where is Judge C’s shaky, breathy, mad voice with GRAVE CONCERN with the CW?

Mind blowing isn't it? No "grave concerns" that the CW's expert broke sequestration. The judge stated that he did in court at end of day 17. Everything that came out certainly points to either that or the cw colluding with him over testimony he shouldn't have known about and asking him to change his report. Jmo.

And no " grave concerns" and public dressing down of brennan. Infact he is rewarded. Go ahead Mr Brennan and rebut ARCCA with your expert after the defense's case in chief. Lol, still trying to move past this. Moo

 

[Malleeboy]

Anyone can find the video. I’ve come to the conclusion 4 mins 30 is completely doable on empty roads without any excessive speed but that is only my opinion.

MOO

I have watched a number of drives but none have done it under 5 mins.
Karen had never driven that route before but presume Lexus has map.
First video I watched was 7.5 mins.

Using a distance calculator (google maps give 2.3 and two 2.6

Speed Distance Time Calculator

Solve for speed, distance, time and rate with formulas s=d/t, d=st, d=rt, t=d/s. Calculate rate of speed given distance and time. Find mph, miles per hour, km/hour.

www.calculatorsoup.com

Which will presume no impediments (red light, other cars. slowing to turn)
2.3 miles in 4m 30 s needs avg speed of 30.66 mph
2.3 miles in 4m needs avg speed of 34.5 mph
2.3 miles in 3m 45 s needs avg speed of 36.8 mph
2.6 miles in 4m 30s needs avg speed of 34.66 mph
2.6 miles in 4m needs avg speed of 39 mph
2.6 miles in 3m 45s needs avg speed of 41.6 mph

 

[Malleeboy]

Mind blowing isn't it? No "grave concerns" that the CW's expert broke sequestration. The judge stated that he did in court at end of day 17. Everything that came out certainly points to either that or the cw colluding with him over testimony he shouldn't have known about and asking him to change his report. Jmo.

And no " grave concerns" and public dressing down of brennan. Infact he is rewarded. Go ahead Mr Brennan and rebut ARCCA with your expert after the defense's case in chief. Lol, still trying to move past this. Moo

Judge tells jury off for their responses but she is giving responses herself.

 

[mrjitty]

Perhaps I can restate my original post more clearly

If Mr Alessi's case was that Key Cycle 1162 comes 16 hours later (tow truck loading), he would not be representing to the Judge that every second is critical. Hence an apparent concession on this point - the substantive argument between the parties being about the time variance of seconds, rather than which key cycle it was.

The great unknown is what exactly the CW now have, and what exactly the 'time stamps' from the infotainment system are. However Mr Alessi's thorough recitation of how he structured his cross examination to focus on these seconds is perhaps a sign that the anchoring of 1162 is more certain this time.

Especially Mr Alessi makes a substantive (not procedural) argument that the new variance calculation should not be allowed as it is highly prejudicial to the defence "effectuated strategy'. I don't think he makes that argument if 1162 is 16 hours later as his case would not be substantively impacted in the slightest.

These are my opinions only, based on listening to the two motions hearings. Views are speculative and tea leaf reading.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I have watched a number of drives but none have done it under 5 mins.
Karen had never driven that route before but presume Lexus has map.
First video I watched was 7.5 mins.

Using a distance calculator (google maps give 2.3 and two 2.6

Speed Distance Time Calculator

Solve for speed, distance, time and rate with formulas s=d/t, d=st, d=rt, t=d/s. Calculate rate of speed given distance and time. Find mph, miles per hour, km/hour.

www.calculatorsoup.com

Which will presume no impediments (red light, other cars. slowing to turn)
2.3 miles in 4m 30 s needs avg speed of 30.66 mph
2.3 miles in 4m needs avg speed of 34.5 mph
2.3 miles in 3m 45 s needs avg speed of 36.8 mph
2.6 miles in 4m 30s needs avg speed of 34.66 mph
2.6 miles in 4m needs avg speed of 39 mph
2.6 miles in 3m 45s needs avg speed of 41.6 mph

My personal opinion was that both sides are locked on the timeline, which is unhelpful to both of them, so neither were talking about it.

Intriguingly Alessi said that he didn't cross the CW expert on the 12.36.39 router connection, precisely because of the DiSorga timeline, which apparently for Alessi, gives a very fast but acceptable runtime - yet varies from the CW by only seconds not a minute.

This is perhaps another indicator that departure time is timestamped and that Alessi might have disputed the 12.36.39 router connection knowing what he now knows.

Speculation/MOO

 

[jepop]

Judge tells jury off for their responses but she is giving responses herself.

Yep she is giving plenty of inappropriate responses Imo and she is a judge and should know better ( I can't believe that this discussion is actually necessary but omg it is,). Moo

This judge leading by example whilst simultaneously providing jury members with more reasons to have surprised expressions on their faces.
Jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes. A local did it recently in just under 4 mins.

Anyone can find the video. I’ve come to the conclusion 4 mins 30 is completely doable on empty roads without any excessive speed but that is only my opinion.

MOO

<bbm>

Could you please provide a link to support that statement?

Thank you !!

 

[Warwick7]

Perhaps I can restate my original post more clearly

If Mr Alessi's case was that Key Cycle 1162 comes 16 hours later (tow truck loading), he would not be representing to the Judge that every second is critical. Hence an apparent concession on this point - the substantive argument between the parties being about the time variance of seconds, rather than which key cycle it was.

The great unknown is what exactly the CW now have, and what exactly the 'time stamps' from the infotainment system are. However Mr Alessi's thorough recitation of how he structured his cross examination to focus on these seconds is perhaps a sign that the anchoring of 1162 is more certain this time.

Especially Mr Alessi makes a substantive (not procedural) argument that the new variance calculation should not be allowed as it is highly prejudicial to the defence "effectuated strategy'. I don't think he makes that argument if 1162 is 16 hours later as his case would not be substantively impacted in the slightest.

These are my opinions only, based on listening to the two motions hearings. Views are speculative and tea leaf reading.

MOO

Ok, I don't know if it's because I haven't had my first cup of coffee or not but....What??
I have no clue whatsoever of what you are talking about.
Could you put that in layman's terms?

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Perhaps I can restate my original post more clearly

If Mr Alessi's case was that Key Cycle 1162 comes 16 hours later (tow truck loading), he would not be representing to the Judge that every second is critical. Hence an apparent concession on this point - the substantive argument between the parties being about the time variance of seconds, rather than which key cycle it was.

The great unknown is what exactly the CW now have, and what exactly the 'time stamps' from the infotainment system are. However Mr Alessi's thorough recitation of how he structured his cross examination to focus on these seconds is perhaps a sign that the anchoring of 1162 is more certain this time.

Especially Mr Alessi makes a substantive (not procedural) argument that the new variance calculation should not be allowed as it is highly prejudicial to the defence "effectuated strategy'. I don't think he makes that argument if 1162 is 16 hours later as his case would not be substantively impacted in the slightest.

These are my opinions only, based on listening to the two motions hearings. Views are speculative and tea leaf reading.

MOO

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to assume the defense has “anchored” Key Cycle 1162 to the John drop-off just because Alessi emphasized the seconds variance. That argument doesn’t require a concession about when 1162 occurred. It’s a challenge to how the Commonwealth is now trying to reframe the timing after the fact.

Alessi may be holding fire on the placement of 1162 for strategic reasons, or simply hasn’t had the right witness to make that argument yet. It’s not unusual for the defense to preserve ambiguity while attacking the reliability of the state’s interpretation. Also, this idea that he “wouldn’t be arguing seconds if it was 16 hours later” assumes the defense only has one strategy, which I don’t feel is accurate. They’re pushing back on multiple fronts.

All MOO.

 

[Silverstorm]

Soooo MSP crime lab detected dna from 5 males on JO’S shoe but didn’t even try to identify who’s dna it was.
Same with his clothes...

I would like to know why they didnt try to identify it! That’s important!

 

[ShadyLady]

I have watched a number of drives but none have done it under 5 mins.
Karen had never driven that route before but presume Lexus has map.
First video I watched was 7.5 mins.

Using a distance calculator (google maps give 2.3 and two 2.6

Speed Distance Time Calculator

Solve for speed, distance, time and rate with formulas s=d/t, d=st, d=rt, t=d/s. Calculate rate of speed given distance and time. Find mph, miles per hour, km/hour.

www.calculatorsoup.com

Which will presume no impediments (red light, other cars. slowing to turn)
2.3 miles in 4m 30 s needs avg speed of 30.66 mph
2.3 miles in 4m needs avg speed of 34.5 mph
2.3 miles in 3m 45 s needs avg speed of 36.8 mph
2.6 miles in 4m 30s needs avg speed of 34.66 mph
2.6 miles in 4m needs avg speed of 39 mph
2.6 miles in 3m 45s needs avg speed of 41.6 mph

Yes, and Karen had little idea how to get out of neighborhood in the snow and back to Meadows. Took them awhile to even find 34th.

 

[ShadyLady]

I would like to know why they didnt try to identify it! That’s important!

And dna from John's arm, that looked like dog bites.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Something I missed in Friday's testimony. As I remember Karen and Kerry did cpr on JO. But they didn't find any female dna on JO, on his clothing or mouth...
Really?? Why?

Good point! Was the testimony that they found JOKs DNA on his clothes, and other unknown sources of several person's DNA that "could have been anyone"? Or was it only male DNA that they found on his clothing?

 

[ShadyLady]

Good point! Was the testimony that they found JOKs DNA on his clothes, and other unknown sources of several

Seems LE was not too interested in testing anything for one and a half months....

person's DNA that "could have been anyone"? Or was it only male DNA that they found on his clothing

 

[Tortoise]

Perhaps I can restate my original post more clearly

If Mr Alessi's case was that Key Cycle 1162 comes 16 hours later (tow truck loading), he would not be representing to the Judge that every second is critical. Hence an apparent concession on this point - the substantive argument between the parties being about the time variance of seconds, rather than which key cycle it was.

The great unknown is what exactly the CW now have, and what exactly the 'time stamps' from the infotainment system are. However Mr Alessi's thorough recitation of how he structured his cross examination to focus on these seconds is perhaps a sign that the anchoring of 1162 is more certain this time.

Especially Mr Alessi makes a substantive (not procedural) argument that the new variance calculation should not be allowed as it is highly prejudicial to the defence "effectuated strategy'. I don't think he makes that argument if 1162 is 16 hours later as his case would not be substantively impacted in the slightest.

These are my opinions only, based on listening to the two motions hearings. Views are speculative and tea leaf reading.

MOO

Yes, I noted Mr Alessi said


“I will also say without getting into an elaboration of it, we have to look at all the witnesses that we called, I’ll give you an example, Mr Whiffin, I had my whole cross-examination, not whole but a significant part of my cross-examination of Mr Whiffin, based upon going through human volitional conduct off that phone that was after that 1162 trigger, and a lot of our defence and theory is based upon that that’s been in existence now for several months."

7.05.04

 

[Forest_Wood]

It's too bad nobody that I'm aware of has recorded the trip from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows during a winter snowfall around midnight to determine how long the trip takes. That would be more accurate IMO. And why couldn't the CW have checked her so-called black box to find out the speed she was traveling during the time of that drive?

 

[303gmf]

It's too bad nobody that I'm aware of has recorded the trip from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows during a winter snowfall around midnight to determine how long the trip takes. That would be more accurate IMO.

And with a few vodkas !
My lifelong experience with drinkers is they drive slower especially at her age, teens and 20’s sadly not

 

[kuromiiiilove]

It's too bad nobody that I'm aware of has recorded the trip from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows during a winter snowfall around midnight to determine how long the trip takes. That would be more accurate IMO. And why couldn't the CW have checked her so-called black box to find out the speed she was traveling during the time of that drive?

Same reason they didn’t try to find out whose DNA was on John’s clothes. Same reason they never tested the tailight pieces for DNA. Same reason they never tested the presumed blood in the solo cups.

Because they knew it wouldn’t support their narrative. Because real forensics threaten their fabricated timeline. Because the prosecution was building a story, not a case.

MOO.

 

[Forest_Wood]

(At about 2:45:00).

From the Ash Vailler testimony, showing the various pieces from the 7-dash series fit together into one larger piece.



Some pieces of the final reconstruction were missing. AV never received any other pieces that fit into the parts of the missing reconstruction.

Two of the 7-dash series (7-8 and 7-14) did not fit into the bigger reconstruction.
What did these extra pieces belong to?

7-8 is at 1:16:47 description is piece of plastic, red and clear recovered from 34 Fairview with photo of a bunch of pieces.


7-14 is at 1:25:16 description is pieces of glass recovered from 34 Fairview with photo of one piece. Perhaps this was from the glass.