MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #28 Retrial

[iamshadow21]

Alessi cleared that up on cross. Dr Wolf was consistent with ME. I’m not sure why the CW called him except maybe to state that he would have stayed alive 1-3 hours after death.

I know what you meant but your unintentional error made me laugh, despite my current migraine, so, thanks.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Once again, the prosecution seems to be stretching the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Saying “he could have fallen onto flat ground” is pure speculation, not evidence. And it certainly doesn’t meet the burden of proof required in a criminal case. MOO

 

[Angelwatch]

If it was "hit by a car" he would have said his arm or side were hit first then head second. That's logical.

He didn't.

He said the occipital injuries happened first.

And no skull depression at injury site so it wasn’t a car hitting his skull.

 

[Angelwatch]

BBM
Did you mean that third sentence?

Haha. Moving too fast this morning.

 

[Wishbone]

Haha. Moving too fast this morning.

We knew what you meant....

 

[Maat99]

Once again, the prosecution seems to be stretching the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Saying “he could have fallen onto flat ground” is pure speculation, not evidence. And it certainly doesn’t meet the burden of proof required in a criminal case. MOO

Not to mention, JOK could have seen Karen making a three point turn to leave, started to rush back to the car and slipped - since that is a very common thing that people do to cause that injury according to him.
I just don’t see how the CW is going to overcome the testimony by the ME.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I am playing catch up today!

This:
-12:21 a.m: Karen arrives at 34 Fairview. (As per Ian Whiffen, Waze time shows 12:24 a.m. with a 3-minute offset.)

^^^ is that from Whiffen's testimony? I have been wondering about the Waze info, I know he said it used the iphones time, but I want to know more about the 3 minute offset... lol

Thanks all for posting updates! I will rewind and go watch Dr. Wolf's direct later, but seems like it wasn't helpful for the CW? I did catch Alessi's very short cross and was surprised it wasn't longer, guessing the CW was too lol

Yes, the 3 minute adjustment is from Whiffen’s testimony. He explained that Waze timestamps can exhibit a delay (approximately three minutes) between the actual event and the recorded time. This discrepancy arises from how the app processes and logs location data, which can be influenced by factors like app behavior and device processing times.

 

[statt#1]

So how did the taillight break into 40 pieces? From clipping a human body?

I'd like to say, not too long ago, there was this guy driving a car with (2) 2x4's sticking out the passenger window. He was probably going 25 to 35 mph. Those 2x4's hit my truck. The first point of impact was my trucks left rear tail light lens. It's a big lens, 2017 Ford F250 lens.

The impact did 16,000 dollars worth of damage to the entire driver side of my truck.

I personally picked up the red and clear plastic pieces that shattered.

It was no where close to 40 pieces.

In fact, I was able to duct tape the pieces back in place for the tail light to continue to be used for a few months until such time as the repairs were made.

 

[Angelwatch]

We knew what you meant....

It did happen in Canton where time shifts happen. Haha. Glad everyone got a laugh this morning

 

[missy1974]

Not to mention, JOK could have seen Karen making a three point turn to leave, started to rush back to the car and slipped - since that is a very common thing that people do to causes that injury according to him.

ohhh that is a good theory... I keep wondering if there is a way to explain everything without anyone being responsible. I always get hung up on the bites... or just the shadiness of all that were in the house that night. Reading that Dr. Wolf said that he typically sees this type of injury when drunk people fall, really does make me wonder if that is what happened in some way and not anyones fault. Wasn't his blood alcohol level .28 when they took it at the hospital? Crazy high. I have also considered that he went to that area where the trees were to throw up/pee .. because.. that is what drunk people do lol

I think it was you in an earlier post that explained the 3 point turn and how/why the Lexus would register one and not another (hitting a curb). Thank you for that post! Helps me to understand it better!

 

[Wishbone]

It did happen in Canton where time shifts happen. Haha. Glad everyone got a laugh this morning

typos....we all make em

 

[missy1974]

Yes, the 3 minute adjustment is from Whiffen’s testimony. He explained that Waze timestamps can exhibit a delay (approximately three minutes) between the actual event and the recorded time. This discrepancy arises from how the app processes and logs location data, which can be influenced by factors like app behavior and device processing times.

THANK YOU! I will go check out his testimony again on the weekend!

if there can be a 3 minute delay... how does this timeline work at all for the CW?
This would help explain the time difference with the Nagel "here" message too.

 

[DustysMom]

I'd like to say, not too long ago, there was this guy driving a car with (2) 2x4's sticking out the passenger window. He was probably going 25 to 35 mph. Those 2x4's hit my truck. The first point of impact was my trucks left rear tail light lens. It's a big lens, 2017 Ford F250 lens.

The impact did 16,000 dollars worth of damage to the entire driver side of my truck.

I personally picked up the red and clear plastic pieces that shattered.

It was no where close to 40 pieces.

In fact, I was able to duct tape the pieces back in place for the tail light to continue to be used for a few months until such time as the repairs were made.

 

[mrjitty]

Did I misinterpret that Dr Wolf just said the occipital injuries happened first?

My understanding is he said the basal fracture happened first, and this transferred force forward through bone which caused the fractures at the front of the skull. The raccoon eyes then developed over hours from bleeding through these fractures.

IMO

 

[cocomod]

Raise your hand if you wouldn't want to be the 2nd, 3rd or especially the 4th patient with a brain tumor/brain issue that a surgeon operates on in the same day.

I had brain surgery last month. I was the first patient of his that day, and I doubt he did more than 2. I went under at 7:30 a.m. and woke up in ICU at 12:30 p.m. To your point, I would want to be the first patient of the day because the surgery is so precise!

 

[Leilei]

ohhh that is a good theory... I keep wondering if there is a way to explain everything without anyone being responsible. I always get hung up on the bites... or just the shadiness of all that were in the house that night. Reading that Dr. Wolf said that he typically sees this type of injury when drunk people fall, really does make me wonder if that is what happened in some way and not anyones fault. Wasn't his blood alcohol level .28 when they took it at the hospital? Crazy high. I have also considered that he went to that area where the trees were to throw up/pee .. because.. that is what drunk people do lol

I think it was you in an earlier post that explained the 3 point turn and how/why the Lexus would register one and not another (hitting a curb). Thank you for that post! Helps me to understand it better!

But wouldn't those who left 34 later have seen him laying there? Or Lucky?
IMO.

 

[missy1974]

But wouldn't those who left 34 later have seen him laying there? Or Lucky?
IMO.

I would think so... these are the things I get hung up on lol

 

[BUF]

The reporter on CourtTV said that after the jurors returned from one on one discussions with the judge this morning that all 18 jurors returned but there were some seating adjustments.

 

[Leilei]

I would think so... these are the things I get hung up on lol

Same lol.
The fact that nobody saw him at all bugs the heck out of me.
IMO.

 

[tara83]

My understanding is he said the basal fracture happened first, and this transferred force forward through bone which caused the fractures at the front of the skull. The raccoon eyes then developed over hours from bleeding through these fractures.

IMO

He also answered yes to the question of it being possible for the injuries to come from blows to the head.