MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #29 Retrial

[nodamselindistress]

I'm waiting on Alessi to clear this up for me!

 

[Wishbone]

Does he really think presenting all this mumbo jumbo will convince the jury of whatever point he is failing to make? JMOO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, but he really was not. He also was a state trooper. He had scant credentials and was called out. Remember his answer when questioned about an important issue, 'it just did'.. You can look that part up I would think. IMO

Then it's a good thing in this trial that a PHD is testifying. I'm finding Dr. Welcher to be a very good witness in the explaining of data...so far and I'm a tad behind in his testimony.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Does he really think presenting all this mumbo jumbo will convince the jury of whatever point he is failing to make? JMOO

This is what the defense is consistently able to outperform the CW on (when allowed by JBC - chalks weren’t allowed trial 1 but seemingly are trial 2). They can cut through confusing jargon and present the evidence in a way that makes sense, say, even to an 18yo juror (I hear there’s one on the jury!)

I thought AJ’s chart and explanation of the glass shards last week, showing that not only did Karen not have any glass from John’s cup on her bumper, but that Proctor very likely planted at least 1 piece on her bumper, was absolute genius. I hope we will see more of the same with these cycles, TSEs and device time variants.

All MOO

 

[waldojabba]

This is convoluted, confusing and not making sense. Is the jury checked out yet? JMOO

The guy needs to cut to the chase - he lost me 45 minutes ago altho I am still listening with half an ear. He did inspect the car/visit the site /take umpteen pictures ( and maybe took a side trip to ride the swan boats in Boston Garden lol)
From what I gather all of Welcher's timing of events is based upon Shanon's timing.
Which then muddies the water for me. But I will continue to listen
I look forward to Alessi's cross -hopefully today if this speeds up.
JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Spider asked who was the previous reconstructionist in T1

Yes, I was just adding we have a much more educated reconstructionist on the stand right now, which I perceive as a good thing.

 

[iusedtofloat]

love this thread, i know now only to watch the snippet of this witness when im catching up later lol

 

[mzmarymac]

The guy needs to cut to the chase - he lost me 45 minutes ago altho I am still listening with half an ear. He did inspect the car/visit the site /take umpteen pictures ( and maybe took a side trip to ride the swan boats in Boston Garden lol)
From what I gather all of Welcher's timing of events is based upon Shanon's timing.
Which then muddies the water for me. But I will continue to listen
I look forward to Alessi's cross -hopefully today if this speeds up.
JMO

So glad it's not just me. I was told there woud be no math.

 

[geevee]

I'm a fair bit behind and just saw the enlarged techstream chart with the trigger, I noticed the last column had "kph' instead of mph, does he mention if the kph was converted to mph?

 

[ShadyLady]

I'm waiting on Alessi to clear this up for me!

Still waiting to hear when/about John ran around for 85ft and used stairs. Did he run around the SUV before Karen hit him??

 

[mrjitty]

All that matters, IMO, is he submitted to the court the correct information. To that date he was "pursuing".

You can go round the houses on this forever. You are correct his submitted CV is all that matters legally. I tend to agree the LinkedIn thing is irrelevant to this case. But of course it is an unforced error because it allows an attack on credibility.

Who knows what the jury make of it, and it muddies the waters, but of course it shouldn't muddy the waters for us, because we know that the defence is simply trying to muddy the waters!

At the end of the day, this comes down to an argument over a few seconds, that perhaps can never be entirely resolved. But it sure is a hell of a coincidence that Karen apparently made such a wild reversing with 75% throttle and no brake, right around the time John's phone never moved again.

I have to say I am pretty stunned Alessi made this his strategy, but it does seem like 1162 is so nailed down he had no real alternative. He needs trigger 2 to plausibly happen well before John's final steps or a murder conviction is bound to follow IMO.

Even then, I wonder if a jury can ever buy that idea. This is why i say I now need to hear from the defendant as to why she was driving so fast in reverse. At the moment, there is just no explanation for it, other than the worst one.

IMO

 

[sunshineray]

and we all know any objection from the defense to Brennan pulling this crap will be overruled... only prosecution objections sustained in this court!

I've seen many defense objections sustained in the prosecution's direct examination of it's witnesses in this second trial.

 

[ShadyLady]

I'm a fair bit behind and just saw the enlarged techstream chart with the trigger, I noticed the last column had "kph' instead of mph, does he mention if the kph was converted to mph?

Garbage in, garbage out?

 

[sunshineray]

You can go round the houses on this forever. You are correct his submitted CV is all that matters legally. I tend to agree the LinkedIn thing is irrelevant to this case. But of course it is an unforced error because it allows an attack on credibility.

Who knows what the jury make of it, and it muddies the waters, but of course it shouldn't muddy the waters for us, because we know that the defence is simply trying to muddy the waters!

At the end of the day, this comes down to an argument over a few seconds, that perhaps can never be entirely resolved. But it sure is a hell of a coincidence that Karen apparently made such a wild reversing with 75% throttle and no break, right around the time John's phone never moved again.

I have to say I am pretty stunned Alessi made this his strategy, but it does seem like 1162 is so nailed down he had no real alternative. He needs trigger 2 to plausibly happen well before John's final steps or a murder conviction is bound to follow IMO.

Even then, I wonder if a jury can ever buy that idea. This is why i say I now need to hear from the defendant as to why she was driving so fast in reverse. At the moment, there is just no explanation for it, other than the worst one.

IMO

Yes I agree, it will be up to the jury on that. I also think Dr. Welcher's credentials, experience and analysis should stand alone for itself, MO.

 

[waldojabba]

Still waiting to hear when/about John ran around for 85ft and used stairs. Did he run around the SUV before Karen hit him??

Its all noise and yadayada to me unless you can tell me it shows the car records indicate a crash took place and then show me how that crash caused John's injuries jmo

 

[mrjitty]

Yes I agree, it will be up to the jury on that. I also think Dr. Welcher's credentials, experience and analysis should stand alone for itself, MO.

What has to be kept in mind is most of what Burgess did was extract a BERLA report, and the contents of those reports are what they are. Now he had to be very clever and diligent to get the data off the SD card, but at the end of the day, both CW and Defence are stuck with the extraction data.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Welcher must have been paid exceptionally grand to put all that time into visiting the vehicle and taking all those pics. I wonder if Alessi will ask him how much he received from taxpayers for his work.

I hope Alessi asks that and did you know Brennan gets 75,000 paid by the taxpayers just to prosecute this one case? Here's how much Hank Brennan will get paid to prosecute Karen Read in second trial. Man oh man, if I was a taxpayer there I would be fuming mad!!!!

 

[rescuemom]

Whats up with CourtTV? Why are they so pro-CW?

In all the years watching CoutTV, IMO, they have morphed into more of a tabloid TV court info site. I'm not a fan anymore. Haven't watched them for several years.

 

[mrjitty]

One argument I can see the defense saying about Welcher... the CW wants to bring him back as rebuttal to the ARCCA experts. He just made it clear he was able to 'adjust' his presentation with new information he got, there is no reason for him to not be able to dispute or rebut ARCCA's findings in this testimony.

JMO

My understanding from talking to prosecutors is the CW has quite broad scope on rebuttal in this jursidiction. It is what it is. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

What has to be kept in mind is most of what Burgess did was extract a BERLA report, and the contents of those reports are what they are. Now he had to be very clever and diligent to get the data off the SD card, but at the end of the day, both CW and Defence are stuck with the extraction data.

Yes and the defense seems very worried about that data, explained by this witness. JMO