MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

[lohrtabitha]

Wait. When did I say that? Wow. Ok.

Last sentence

 

[themonk]

I have watched every single day, too. Not recaps, the whole entire trial. And I absolutely think there is evidence of her hitting him. Starting with the time his phone stopped moving and him not checking his phone anymore directly after she pulled off. I'm not here to argue about it, though. I actually read so much before the trial that I thought she was not guilty. Watching the whole trial has solidified, for me, that she is responsible for his death.

If Michael Proctor had not deleted the location data from Karen Read’s phone in April 2022 it might have been easier to confirm KR could have hit JOK with her Lexus.

And yet, Proctor deleted the location data.

Why do you think he did that? Who did the deletion benefit?

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM
I don’t think they “murdered him”/killed him on purpose. I think it was an argument gone terribly wrong.

We can’t know what happened in the house because they didn’t do a single thing to investigate the house. (IMO the same LE who seemingly planted tail light pieces and most definitely threw their phones away CHOSE to “neglect” to investigate the inside of the home.) & They didn’t interview the individuals in the house SEPARATELY. They didn’t record them either.

The taillight fragments SHOULD have been inadmissible due to chain of custody and contamination issues. NOTHING was collected properly. It’s rather scary honestly that the justice system is being allowed to be so manipulated in this case in SO many ways and on/by SO many levels.

The shirt and tail light were in the SAME bag. That’s most likely how the rice grain sized tail light pieces got on his shirt. But we will never really KNOW how because they failed to collect evidence PROPERLY.

Regarding the arm wounds — The photo below shows the arm of a recent dog attack survivor above the arm of OJO.
View attachment 590576

The next photo is just a screen shot of the multiple images that showed up on my phone when i googled “dog attack on arm” images
View attachment 590571

Here’s one that looks quite similar
View attachment 590575

Regarding the head wound, please consider a fight that took place in Baton Rouge, LA. A 26 year died from being pushed and falling backwards onto his head.

I’d like to compare fracture locations etc between OJO & the 26 year old who died from being pushed by a smaller 21 year old, but Baton Rouge LE hasn’t released that info.
Affidavit details fight that left 26-year-old dead outside Tigerland bar

Snipped from article linked above:
BATON ROUGE - The LSU student accused of manslaughter in a fatal fight outside Fred's Bar ducked a punch, and then is accused of shoving Devin Repath down in the parking lot.

Repath, 26, hit his head on the concrete and died several days later from his injuries.

An arrest affidavit for Matthew Marsiglia, 21, dated April 3 seems to paint Repath as the aggressor for part of the encounter. Detectives reviewed surveillance video from a tented area outside the bar. They saw a pair of men talking to a group of three men. Police redacted the identities of other people in the affidavit before releasing it.

"During the conversation Devin Repath walks behind several of his friends and punches [REDACTED] in the head. [REDACTED] then falls to the ground at which time [REDACTED] charges Repath. [REDACTED] is subdued by Repath's friends, and the groups are separated," the affidavit says.

"A short time later [REDACTED] can be seen walking around with [REDACTED] and Matthew Marsiglia. Repath is then seen backing out of the bar while exchanging words with [redacted by police] and Marsiglia," the affidavit says.

"Repath backs up into the parking lot and about halfway into the parking (sic) Repath stops and attempts to hit Marsiglia. Marsiglia ducks and is not hit. Repath then backs up several steps and Marsiglia then takes both hands and shoves Repath by the shoulders causing Repath to fall and strike his head on the parking lot pavement," the affidavit says.

Moving onto why I don’t think John was out in the cold on the lawn from around 12:30am to the time he was found, around 5am, I present to you a published study on Newton’s Law of Cooling and how it can be applied to forensics:
Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

80 degrees Fahrenheit is 26.6 C, OJO’s body temperature when found which according to the study, a lightly layered body weighing 176lbs reaches by 1 hour in 10mph winds and 26.6 degrees F. They CW wants us to believe that it took around 5hrs of exposure in the above conditions for OJO’s temp to reach 80 degrees F. According to this scientific study, OJO would have been around 41 degrees F NOT 80 degrees F after 5 hours of exposure.

Here are snippets from the above linked study:
View attachment 590579

- The study uses -3 degrees Celsius which converts 26.6 degrees Fahrenheit for the conditions — very close to the temp of the night in question, 24 degrees.

- The study uses 10mph winds, which is less than the night in question. The winds were closer to 20mph and gusting to 50 as sunrise approached

- The study uses a “thin layer of clothing”OJO’s sweatshirt provided him with an additional thin layer of clothing to his upper body. (But it was wet with blood and vomit.)

- The study uses a 80kg body which converts to 176 lbs which is less than OJO.

The outside temp/ conditions used in study:

View attachment 590580


OJO’s core body temp
View attachment 590590

Here is the science they used. (There’s MUCH MORE in the linked study for anyone interested.)

View attachment 590584
View attachment 590582
So in summary:
- they failed to investigate the home of where a body was found

- they failed to record and interview those in the home separately

- they did not use the LEGAL chain of custody requirements on items from the scene.

- they contaminated evidence by putting the shirt in the same bag as the light fragments.

- Higgins tried to extract data from his phone then destroyed his SIM card and threw his phone away in a dumpster on a military base according to his own testimony

- BA traded his phone in.

- people die when being pushed resulting in falling on the back of their heads

- dog attack wounds look VERY similar to OJOs arm wounds. Chloe was rehomed and has a history of attacking

- according to SCIENCE, there is no way OJOs core body temperature could have been 80 degrees IF he was on the lawn from the time he exited Karen’s vehicle to the time he was found. His temp would have been MUCH lower - closer to 40 degrees F. Knowing this, one HAS TO assume he was sheltered/ warmed from something for several hours - most likely the home he was visiting. The home they failed to investigate….

The core body temp, ALONE, I believe proves more than any other points that he was in that house. I feel as though it’s the MOST scientific believable evidence regarding this case. More scientific than techstreams and accident reconstruction considering the only car accident that we KNOW/ proven to have occurred was Karen crashing into John’s car. Maybe they should recreate that accident to test out the damage….

Yeah, I agree body temp should have fallen quicker, in a blizzard, on the cold ground, without a coat. When they described rendering aid- chest compressions and rescue breaths I said? What?
And then EMTs intubated and put him on a ventilator.
I was shocked he had been out in a blizzard that long and was alive and not frozen!

I didn’t know the temp outside- but we know it was January, near Boston, at night, the sun goes down early, and a blizzard!

I’ll have to see how the body temp was presented- if they say lower than 80, or if they say measured at 80 degrees F. And how was it measured?
Core temp is used to determine time of death, and measurement happens using a thermometer into a deceased person’s liver. He was alive when found, so how was it measured?
Comparing an alive person’s body temp with a deceased person’s to find time of death are very different. Here we are talking about 5 hours- so it is well beyond the time that should have killed him. So you would then ask how on earth could still be alive?

And… JM did a search to find out how long it would take. So if she read the results she would have known JO’s alive and unfrozen body she was seeing near 6AM, doing chest compressions on could not have been outside exposed the entire time since she last text him when the SUV was in front of the house.

Hmmm- that is some pretty incriminating evidence and food for thought!

Great points! And just the kind of evidence that makes me think! Thank you for your time here!
IMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

I think the blame on others and LE conspiracy was necessary by the defense when the DA increased the charges and brought in the taillight evidence that appears fictional and fabricated.

If the taillight evidence is fabricated then you wonder Why?
Following that assumption you conclude that someone is covering up something and pinning this on KR because they believe she is near to the incident enough for her to plausibly be to blame.

This to me is a logical path by the defense to conspiracy by LE. Then you can speculate as to what they may be converting up, and who actually did it, and if it was intentional, and why plant evidence if you didn’t do it.

IMO

There is great reason for conspiracy due to all the corruption by the police in that state. I posted earlier another guilty conviction from the Federal Department of Justice. If someone chooses not to read the articles, not to read all the threads since this trials beginning, not to investigate for themselves about the widespread police corruption then, the old saying is true about leading the horse to water. I'm sure the jurrors, bring residents of the state know about police corruption and will deliberate about it when discussing the case. MOO

 

[themonk]

What evidence has been presented for planting of taillight?

There might have been some had the sallyport video not been edited.

 

[waldojabba]

Agree. I think it is more probable they were hiding something much bigger than Karen’s hit and run on their phones. Perhaps it was a multitude of things they were hiding.

And there was an FBI investigation done on all the shenanigans that occurred with this case. That is how ARCCA became involved. The fbi hired them as part of their investigation. AFAIK, that investigation has concluded and the only consequence of the investigation was Proctor was fired.

MOO

The much “bigger “ - perhaps is texts about what happened to John inside the house ? Between BA and BH.
BA was in the gang unit in Boston. BH was with atf (but mysteriously had an office in Canton PD bc bff with Chief Berkowitz).
If something accidentally happened to John inside the house - these are your clean up guys. Lots of experience in the dark web of life imo.
JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

Yeah, I agree body temp should have fallen quicker, in a blizzard, on the cold ground, without a coat. When they described rendering aid- chest compressions and rescue breaths I said? What?
And then EMTs intubated and put him on a ventilator.
I was shocked he had been out in a blizzard that long and was alive and not frozen!

I didn’t know the temp outside- but we know it was January, near Boston, at night, the sun goes down early, and a blizzard!

I’ll have to see how the body temp was presented- if they say lower than 80, or if they say measured at 80 degrees F. And how was it measured?
Core temp is used to determine time of death, and measurement happens using a thermometer into a deceased person’s liver. He was alive when found, so how was it measured?
Comparing an alive person’s body temp with a deceased person’s to find time of death are very different.

Great points! And just the kind of evidence that makes me think! Thank you for your time here!
IMO

Go back and watch the meteorologist testimony in trial 2.

 

[lohrtabitha]

What evidence has been presented for planting of taillight?

Watch the forensic expert who worked for state police and tested dna. She said there were pieces of taillight found on bumper that didn't match. We won't know if it was JOKs taillight because his was probably fixed bu the auto repairman that JM slipped uo and said was at John's house the next day. You can watch her testimony about this too. moo

 

[shotgun09]

The much “bigger “ - perhaps is texts about what happened to John inside the house ? Between BA and BH.
BA was in the gang unit in Boston. BH was with atf (but mysteriously had an office in Canton PD bc bff with Chief Berkowitz).
If something accidentally happened to John inside the house - these are your clean up guys. Lots of experience in the dark web of life imo.
JMO

Exactly! The Clean Up Crew ! I often think of Higgins and Albert like the fixer 'Ray Donovan' character ( Played by Liev Schreiber )

They know the who's, how's and where's to make something go away.

 

[AngTxGal]

And I'm not a juror. I'm on a true crime discussion forum. If I was a juror, that would be the biggest issue with my post!!! Haha

Yeah, it is human nature to start compiling evidence on each side even if you go in open minded. At some point it is too much- you make a choice and then pile on more evidence toward that choice.
Not ideal- but remaining neutral, unbiased, and open minded is harder work.
For some reason people in forums see it as a game- as if they get more points for deciding early and being right in their guess.
Science doesn’t work like that, and jurors sitting for trials may or may not think this way.

I don’t know why they wait until the end for the jury to sit and discuss- imo why not let the jury debrief after each day?

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Watch the forensic expert who worked for state police and tested dna. She said there were pieces of taillight found on bumper that didn't match. We won't know if it was JOKs taillight because his was probably fixed bu the auto repairman that JM slipped uo and said was at John's house the next day. You can watch her testimony about this too. moo

I did indeed watch, as I have watched every day.

There was no taillight on the bumper, it was broken glass on the bumper.

The pieces of taillight that could not be fit to the reconstruction of the whole unit were not a mechanical fit.

If you watch near the beginning of her testimony she is asked what she means by physical match and she explains she means 'a mechanical fit'. One edge matching up to another broken edge.

 

[ShadyLady]

So the posts saying she is not guilty are solidifying their conclusions, but that is ok? I can say "Watching the whole trial SO FAR has solidified for me that she is responsible for his death" if that is better. But they definitely made their case that she hit him and left. And I watched all the evidence every day. So far. And will continue to do so.

The prosecution is the side that has responsibility to make the case for guilt...

But, yes we as spectators can make our conclusions whenever. But, hopefully the jurors will listen to the whole trial.

 

[Tortoise]

There might have been some had the sallyport video not been edited.

Edited in what way?

They showed during testimony in this trial that the sallyport video was recording in reverse before the 29th January 2022. It was a lens that had been put on the camera back to front.

That's not editing video.

There is no evidence that anything was planted, it's purely innuendo and smoke and mirrors. IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I saw her testimony, she wasn’t convincing at all. It was clear she had a conclusion and was focused on supporting it.

I’d like to hear what the ME thinks of the dog bites- the ME is neutral.
But- the ME wasn’t asked, and her report did not say blunt force to face, nor did it describe the arm lacerations as dog bites.

IMO

I went back and watched Russell’s testimony on a big screen so I could see the pictures- Yeah I think she has the expertise to say those injuries are consistent with dog bites/scratches.
The cross was an ars- but she stood her ground.

So as per her testimony, JO encountered some large animal and was bitten and scratched.
We don’t know where or what animal- but she didn’t say Lexus taillight!

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

Edited in what way?

They showed during testimony in this trial that the sallyport video was recording in reverse before the 29th January 2022. It was a lens that had been put on the camera back to front.

That's not editing video.

There is no evidence that anything was planted, it's purely innuendo and smoke and mirrors. IMO

When the video shows a man suddenly "appears"....that was video that was edited. I have edited many videos, clearly shows edited.

 

[waldojabba]

There is even less evidence it is other people. I would understand if people felt there isn't enough to convict her. I don't understand the massive jump to accusing other people who were called BY HER!!! How would they set her up when she called them in the middle of the night and was the one to see him in the snow? It's just an odd jump to illogical conclusion, to me.

I understand your sentiment.

The reason I feel there is not even evidence to convict Karen, is that Karen’s car never hit John’s. So they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole so to speak.
The scenario does not fit with what we know so far imo.
So then what did happen? What are the other possibilities?
Just from a simplistic view: no one saw him on the lawn and lots of people were in and out.
So then just naturally if you have been observant of this case since the beginning, you begin to notice certain inconsistencies and red flags in testimonies etc.
Why does BA on the text stream say to the others in the early stages : Just tell them he never went into the house.
If John never went into the house there would be no need to say that.

Why do BA and Nicole never come out of the house that entire morning. Why doesn’t Jen wonder if they are ok too and go into the house ? They have just found a dead man on their front lawn.

They say they never woke up. The chaos was right outside their window. So I don’t find that believable.

Why wasn’t their house searched?

There are many other red flags that if listed build a compelling case for a cover up.
But we really don’t know.

These were all very drunk people. Most like to focus on Karen being drunk. John had a bac of .028 I believe. It was the whole crowd. Ime alcohol can cause accidents and then bad decisions.

It was easy for me to believe initially that KR backed into John because of alcohol. But then I saw the evidence.

It’s equally as easy for me to believe that an accident occurred inside the house and for whatever reason they decided not to call 911.

Maybe they propped him sitting up in the basement and thought he was just passed out. But when they checked him later he was dead.

Who knows. There is no proof of this just suspicion There is a lot of shady behavior on the part of the party goers.

Just my two cents.
JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

What evidence has been presented for planting of taillight?

Several sources- one being the video of KR leaving JO’s home early in the morning on that day. It clearly shows that she backed into JO’s car and they contacted on the location of the right rear taillight.
You can clearly see his car move due to the force.

Based on that video alone- it makes sense that she broke the taillight at that moment.

I believe… a piece of the taillight was also found in JO’s driveway? I should have put a ?? Here.

IMO

 

[waldojabba]

BBM
I don’t think they “murdered him”/killed him on purpose. I think it was an argument gone terribly wrong.

We can’t know what happened in the house because they didn’t do a single thing to investigate the house. (IMO the same LE who seemingly planted tail light pieces and most definitely threw their phones away CHOSE to “neglect” to investigate the inside of the home.) & They didn’t interview the individuals in the house SEPARATELY. They didn’t record them either.

The taillight fragments SHOULD have been inadmissible due to chain of custody and contamination issues. NOTHING was collected properly. It’s rather scary honestly that the justice system is being allowed to be so manipulated in this case in SO many ways and on/by SO many levels.

The shirt and tail light were in the SAME bag. That’s most likely how the rice grain sized tail light pieces got on his shirt. But we will never really KNOW how because they failed to collect evidence PROPERLY.

Regarding the arm wounds — The photo below shows the arm of a recent dog attack survivor above the arm of OJO.
View attachment 590576

The next photo is just a screen shot of the multiple images that showed up on my phone when i googled “dog attack on arm” images
View attachment 590571

Here’s one that looks quite similar
View attachment 590575

Regarding the head wound, please consider a fight that took place in Baton Rouge, LA. A 26 year died from being pushed and falling backwards onto his head.

I’d like to compare fracture locations etc between OJO & the 26 year old who died from being pushed by a smaller 21 year old, but Baton Rouge LE hasn’t released that info.
Affidavit details fight that left 26-year-old dead outside Tigerland bar

Snipped from article linked above:
BATON ROUGE - The LSU student accused of manslaughter in a fatal fight outside Fred's Bar ducked a punch, and then is accused of shoving Devin Repath down in the parking lot.

Repath, 26, hit his head on the concrete and died several days later from his injuries.

An arrest affidavit for Matthew Marsiglia, 21, dated April 3 seems to paint Repath as the aggressor for part of the encounter. Detectives reviewed surveillance video from a tented area outside the bar. They saw a pair of men talking to a group of three men. Police redacted the identities of other people in the affidavit before releasing it.

"During the conversation Devin Repath walks behind several of his friends and punches [REDACTED] in the head. [REDACTED] then falls to the ground at which time [REDACTED] charges Repath. [REDACTED] is subdued by Repath's friends, and the groups are separated," the affidavit says.

"A short time later [REDACTED] can be seen walking around with [REDACTED] and Matthew Marsiglia. Repath is then seen backing out of the bar while exchanging words with [redacted by police] and Marsiglia," the affidavit says.

"Repath backs up into the parking lot and about halfway into the parking (sic) Repath stops and attempts to hit Marsiglia. Marsiglia ducks and is not hit. Repath then backs up several steps and Marsiglia then takes both hands and shoves Repath by the shoulders causing Repath to fall and strike his head on the parking lot pavement," the affidavit says.

Moving onto why I don’t think John was out in the cold on the lawn from around 12:30am to the time he was found, around 5am, I present to you a published study on Newton’s Law of Cooling and how it can be applied to forensics:
Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

80 degrees Fahrenheit is 26.6 C, OJO’s body temperature when found which according to the study, a lightly layered body weighing 176lbs reaches by 1 hour in 10mph winds and 26.6 degrees F. They CW wants us to believe that it took around 5hrs of exposure in the above conditions for OJO’s temp to reach 80 degrees F. According to this scientific study, OJO would have been around 41 degrees F NOT 80 degrees F after 5 hours of exposure.

Here are snippets from the above linked study:
View attachment 590579

- The study uses -3 degrees Celsius which converts 26.6 degrees Fahrenheit for the conditions — very close to the temp of the night in question, 24 degrees.

- The study uses 10mph winds, which is less than the night in question. The winds were closer to 20mph and gusting to 50 as sunrise approached

- The study uses a “thin layer of clothing”OJO’s sweatshirt provided him with an additional thin layer of clothing to his upper body. (But it was wet with blood and vomit.)

- The study uses a 80kg body which converts to 176 lbs which is less than OJO.

The outside temp/ conditions used in study:

View attachment 590580


OJO’s core body temp
View attachment 590590

Here is the science they used. (There’s MUCH MORE in the linked study for anyone interested.)

View attachment 590584
View attachment 590582
So in summary:
- they failed to investigate the home of where a body was found

- they failed to record and interview those in the home separately

- they did not use the LEGAL chain of custody requirements on items from the scene.

- they contaminated evidence by putting the shirt in the same bag as the light fragments.

- Higgins tried to extract data from his phone then destroyed his SIM card and threw his phone away in a dumpster on a military base according to his own testimony

- BA traded his phone in.

- people die when being pushed resulting in falling on the back of their heads

- dog attack wounds look VERY similar to OJOs arm wounds. Chloe was rehomed and has a history of attacking

- according to SCIENCE, there is no way OJOs core body temperature could have been 80 degrees IF he was on the lawn from the time he exited Karen’s vehicle to the time he was found. His temp would have been MUCH lower - closer to 40 degrees F. Knowing this, one HAS TO assume he was sheltered/ warmed from something for several hours - most likely the home he was visiting. The home they failed to investigate….

The core body temp, ALONE, I believe proves more than any other points that he was in that house. I feel as though it’s the MOST scientific believable evidence regarding this case. More scientific than techstreams and accident reconstruction considering the only car accident that we KNOW/ proven to have occurred was Karen crashing into John’s car. Maybe they should recreate that accident to test out the damage….

@justwannahelp
Thank you for all this info and your well thought out post. The core body temp has always been curious to me.
Lucky saw a ford edge parked in front of Fairview by the flagpole at around 330am that morning.
I wonder if the body was being put out then?
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Several sources- one being the video of KR leaving JO’s home early in the morning on that day. It clearly shows that she backed into JO’s car and they contacted on the location of the right rear taillight.
You can clearly see his car move due to the force.

Based on that video alone- it makes sense that she broke the taillight at that moment.

A piece of the taillight was also found in JO’s driveway.

IMO

No taillight was found in John's driveway.

Dr Welcher did the 3D laser imaging of the two cars and gave his expert opinion that the taillight did not touch John's car, there is a mark on Karen's car where it touched John's car, and he also gave his expert opinion that that bump at that speed did not cause the taillight to break.

The defence reconstructionists ARCCA also agreed with that in trial 1.

There is no evidence of taillight planting.

 

[AngTxGal]

Edited in what way?

They showed during testimony in this trial that the sallyport video was recording in reverse before the 29th January 2022. It was a lens that had been put on the camera back to front.

That's not editing video.

There is no evidence that anything was planted, it's purely innuendo and smoke and mirrors. IMO

But it does show a person at the location of the right taillight for an extended period of time.
Why would they be spending so much time there? At that time all those 40+ taillight pieces are supposed to be in the snow near the Albert’s home.

IMO