MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #32 Retrial

[nightowl1975]

i could understand someone not remembering something and later correct their testimony if they happen to recall something they were unable to recollect earlier. It is very hard to believe someone who testifies to having seen something and then recants that testimony labeling it a "false memory". Did she dream it or have a vision.? It is so hard to give her testimony any credibility. Just imagine if everyone changed their stated testimony by simply labeling it a "false memory" It would be laughable if this situation was not so serious.

It has occurred to me that it’s possible she was told by whomever WAS there after she left that day about the two being there in the sally port “for a wildly long time”, and she simply repeated it as if she had been there herself.

However, I suspect it’s far more likely she was still there after her “shift” ended. It’s not uncommon at all for people in many lines of work to hang out after their official shift ends when something eventful is happening. A labor and delivery nurse might hang out after their shift to see a new mom through the last of her labor. A teacher might hang out after the school day ends to watch a game or musical performance of her students. A police officer might hang out after their shift if a fellow officer has been found dead on another fellow officer’s lawn. It happens every day across the country.

 

[mrjitty]

Green testified Karen’s GPS data was deleted from her phone in April 2022, in Proctor’s custody. Library video, Ring video, Sallyport video, Karen’s GPS - all deleted.

RSBM

Green said data from April was deleted. Not that her GPS data from her phone was deleted in April. Green himself said the location cache data was only likely to be retained for a couple of weeks.

 

[mrjitty]

The problem with the Devers argument is it was the defence's witness and they did not challenge that her shift ended at 3.30pm - which is approximately 2 hours before the Lexus arrived at the Sally Port.

AJ could have easily produced documentation for her shift that day - she herself said it was overtime so it will be logged. Unless we are now claiming her timesheets were all falsified over a year later I think we can understand why AJ did not contest that.

MOO

 

[nightowl1975]

All of those videos Brennan showed came from the dash camera of a cop car sitting in front of 34 Fairview that morning.
I’m sure if there was camera footage of anything in that yard someone would have found it by now.
Don’t you think?

IMO

Oh, I 1000% believe any and all video was located and dealt with so as not to ruin the CW’s case. How else does one logically explain how it’s possible to mysteriously have this many coincidental glitches in so many cameras? Please. The cop across the street? He says nothing to see. The sally port video? Oops. Not sure what happened there. The library video? I guess the cameras in this town work about as well as the non-existent courtroom AC?

 

[nightowl1975]

RSBM

Green said data from April was deleted. Not that her GPS data from her phone was deleted in April. Green himself said the location cache data was only likely to be retained for a couple of weeks.

Why would there even be data from her phone that was in police custody during April 2022? That makes no sense.

 

[mrjitty]

It’s wild to assume she actually left when she “clocked out”. Let’s say she did indeed clock out at the time she says she did (did they present any actual evidence of this? or are we taking her word for it?). Do we have any proof that she actually LEFT the police station when she clocked out? Do we have proof she didn’t return at some point to see what she says she saw?

What is a logical explanation for her “misremembering” IN VIVID DETAIL what she originally told the FBI?

Why would she stay 2 hours?

If the defence wants to contend all of that in court, they would need to put actual evidence before the Jury. Like for instance, her time record for her shift and overtime on the 29th.

The constitutional burden of proof is so often discussed in this case, but it remains the case that the party saying things in Court needs to actually produce some evidence of them. Given AJ himself did not actually allege she left much later than 3.30 one suspects he knows her overtime did in fact end then.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

It’s wild to assume she actually left when she “clocked out”. Let’s say she did indeed clock out at the time she says she did (did they present any actual evidence of this? or are we taking her word for it?). Do we have any proof that she actually LEFT the police station when she clocked out? Do we have proof she didn’t return at some point to see what she says she saw?

What is a logical explanation for her “misremembering” IN VIVID DETAIL what she originally told the FBI?

She'd already finished her regular shift and was asked to stay for overtime. Not only was the weather a big blizzard issue, she was probably pretty darn exhausted and couldn't wait to get home, JMO. I wonder just how many calls came in that night.

 

[nightowl1975]

The problem with the Devers argument is it was the defence's witness and they did not challenge that her shift ended at 3.30pm - which is approximately 2 hours before the Lexus arrived at the Sally Port.

AJ could have easily produced documentation for her shift that day - she herself said it was overtime so it will be logged. Unless we are now claiming her timesheets were all falsified over a year later I think we can understand why AJ did not contest that.

MOO

Again, every day across the country in a wide variety of professions for a wide variety of reasons, people don’t necessarily leave work immediately when their shift ends. Heck, one of my fondest memories from many, many years ago is of an airport cleaning staff member who finished his shift and stayed at the airport watching from afar until my husband’s plane landed when he was coming home from Iraq. That sweet man sat down several rows away and patiently waited for easily over an hour to bear witness to a solider he didn’t know returning home to his family. Off the clock. I won’t ever forget him.

It would be…. surprising…. if she just clocked out and said peace out like that shift was as ordinary as apple pie with a dead police officer on the lawn of her co-worker.

 

[mrjitty]

Why would there even be data from her phone that was in police custody during April 2022? That makes no sense.

Green is the one telling the story. I am simply noting he did not claim anyone deleted her data in April 2022. Green appeared to say the cache would have emptied after a couple of weeks. As the CW did not crack the defendant's phone until July, they could not have deleted anything in April, and her cache would have been lost long ago, according to the defence's witness.

IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Again, every day across the country in a wide variety of professions for a wide variety of reasons, people don’t necessarily leave work immediately when their shift ends. Heck, one of my fondest memories from many, many years ago is of an airport cleaning staff member who finished his shift and stayed at the airport watching from afar until my husband’s plane landed when he was coming home from Iraq. That sweet man sat down several rows away and patiently waited for easily over an hour to bear witness to a solider he didn’t know returning home to his family. Off the clock. I won’t ever forget him.

It would be…. surprising…. if she just clocked out and said peace out like that shift was as ordinary as apple pie with a dead police officer on the lawn of her co-worker.

Maybe? But AJ did not allege anything like that, nor ask the witness that question.

 

[nightowl1975]

She'd already finished her regular shift and was asked to stay for overtime. Not only was the weather a big blizzard issue, she was probably pretty darn exhausted and couldn't wait to get home, JMO. I wonder just how many calls came in that night.

Ok, so you have no problem with believing she was then interviewed by the FBI and just randomly “misremembered” in vivid detail something that would, if true, look very bad for the CW, but not to worry, it was a “false memory”?

 

[sunshineray]

The problem with the Devers argument is it was the defence's witness and they did not challenge that her shift ended at 3.30pm - which is approximately 2 hours before the Lexus arrived at the Sally Port.

AJ could have easily produced documentation for her shift that day - she herself said it was overtime so it will be logged. Unless we are now claiming her timesheets were all falsified over a year later I think we can understand why AJ did not contest that.

MOO

Yes I agree. I think the only reason she was called was to insinuate, that's all they had. I think the defense is very concerned the case is not going well for them JMO.

 

[nightowl1975]

Maybe? But AJ did not allege anything like that, nor ask the witness that question.

Sometimes it’s wiser to stop while you’re ahead. Her testimony already made no sense. Her attitude was awful and embarrassing. Her story defies logic for anyone thinking logically. Why ask her directly if she left right away after her shift? I’m sure she would’ve lied about that too. Leave some space for the jury to fill in the blanks.

 

[mrjitty]

She'd already finished her regular shift and was asked to stay for overtime. Not only was the weather a big blizzard issue, she was probably pretty darn exhausted and couldn't wait to get home, JMO. I wonder just how many calls came in that night.

As you correctly noted re the contours of the evidence, the CW will have prepared for this witness in T1 where she was not called. No doubt confronted with the FBI statement, they pulled up her timesheets. This would all be discoverable. I would bet you a pint AJ has seen those records. It's why he did not ask about them.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Sometimes it’s wiser to stop while you’re ahead. Her testimony already made no sense. Her attitude was awful and embarrassing. Her story defies logic for anyone thinking logically. Why ask her directly if she left right away after her shift? I’m sure she would’ve lied about that too. Leave some space for the jury to fill in the blanks.

I agree that is why AJ didn't ask.

 

[nightowl1975]

Yes I agree. I think the only reason she was called was to insinuate, that's all they had. I think the defense is very concerned the case is not going well for them JMO.

I think the defense is rightly concerned there’s a very real possibility that no matter how much reasonable doubt there is, there’s going to be at least one fool on that jury who had their mind made up before ever walking through the doors. Or worse, has been compromised at some point. I don’t think it’s very likely KR will be acquitted because it only takes one hold out to hang the jury. But I also will truly be shocked if they ever find a jury of 12 to convict her on what has been presented.

 

[sunshineray]

Ok, so you have no problem with believing she was then interviewed by the FBI and just randomly “misremembered” in vivid detail something that would, if true, look very bad for the CW, but not to worry, it was a “false memory”?

Yes, I think it's very possibly she may have seen some sort of activity in the Sally port before the Lexus got there. She very well could have misidentified people walking in or out. It's not like she was sitting in front of that Sally port video feed. She had her own two screens to deal with on an overnight that a blizzard was hitting the area. Year or so later and yes a person could certainly have an incorrect memory. The defense seemed to not want to challenge the officer about the time she left. Why would that be if there was anything nefarious to it? AJMO

 

[nightowl1975]

Why would she stay 2 hours?

Because there was a dead cop on the lawn of another cop? And that’s sort of a big deal in the law enforcement world?

Let’s say someone was found dead at your workplace, under suspicious circumstances. It’s near the end of your work day. You’re telling me there’s ZERO chance you’re going to hang around the water cooler, so to speak, past your normal clock out time…. out of curiosity? nosiness? concern? Come on. This isn’t some giant ridiculous leap here.

 

[sunshineray]

I think the defense is rightly concerned there’s a very real possibility that no matter how much reasonable doubt there is, there’s going to be at least one fool on that jury who had their mind made up before ever walking through the doors. Or worse, has been compromised at some point. I don’t think it’s very likely KR will be acquitted because it only takes one hold out to hang the jury. But I also will truly be shocked if they ever find a jury of 12 to convict her on what has been presented.

MOO, Insinuations are not reasonable.There would need to be evidentiary proof for them to be considered.

 

[AngTxGal]

She'd already finished her regular shift and was asked to stay for overtime. Not only was the weather a big blizzard issue, she was probably pretty darn exhausted and couldn't wait to get home, JMO. I wonder just how many calls came in that night.

Officer Devers Testimony-
We here have tons of questions related to Devers testimony and the sallyport.
What is the actual significance here? I think we can infer based on the defenses actions.

We know the jury would understand better if they had more information.
Why don’t they?
Why did the Defense Team not choose to do more homework here? Bring more info to the jury?

• Description of how the sallyport doors work
• Procedures of use of sallyport, why and how and rules
• Floor plan of police station with sallyport
• Photo of the desks where people are buzzed into the sally port, what can be seen
• Schedules/ timesheets of who worked that day and how long
• Devers responsibilities when working the desk, is she also doing dispatch? Phone?

So is this a nothingburger, tossing things against the wall?
Or is this a bombshell that wasn’t pursued?

IMO