MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #32 Retrial

[missy1974]

It's worth noting Judge Cannone already granted the CW broad scope to impeach Lucky's credibility on the blogger threats, alleged receipt of payment/benefits from supporters, evolving testimony after contact with the defence, recanting of statements to the FBI, improvement of times between trials etc etc

The only thing she didn't let Brennan do is present the actual threats in Court, because Lucky said he didn't know about them specifically. So the lack of foundation here is about that narrow point.

Brennan was already allowed to allege that Lucky changed his testimony because of threats and inducements.

This all illustrates how 3rd party justice warriors can damage a case.

MOO

If the threat was "do the right thing"in June of 2023...

He had already talked to at least the defense PI, and possibly already the FBI by the time that "threat" occured.

So the threat did not influence what he said 2 weeks after Jan 2022.

The 3rd party, the one doing the threatening, saying 'do the right thing' in June of 2023,... could not have influenced something he already did, the 3rd party just didn't know and assumed because he had connections to the Alberts that he would not do "the right thing".

In this instance, I don't think the times of his passes really matter, it was between 2:30ish am until JOK was found. The substance of his testimony that he didn't see a body and that he saw a Ford Edge outside on one pass is what mattered.

Unless there was more to this threat, but that is how I understand it right now.

All JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

I'm still catching up from yesterday. Wow, the defense couldn't have had a worse expert witness than Dr. Russell, MO. KR was not looking like her normal confident self listening to Dr. Russell being cross examined. She looked very worried, MO

What was Aleesi doing riding in the car with a witness? Couldn't she get a cab, an uber, her own limo? Alessi was also highlighting her talking points for her. He couldn't just hand her the highlighter? What else inappropriate did the defense do with their expert witness? The studies Dr. Russell picked to reference sure weren't even close to being simular in any way to JO's case, MO.

Then Attorney Alessi has a bit of a meltdown, yelling and banging, demanding a mistrial. Trying very hard to cut their loses because there was no doggie DNA found on the tears in JO's clothes. Oh the CW can't bring THAT up! That's a mistrial? That's a fact, swabbed and tested. MO

Now today, this poor plow guy doesn't know when he was on Fairview, he's been all over the place with his times. He and his brother have been harassed by a rabidly pro-KR blogger, written about online, talked about on podcasts, calling the plow driver's boss...all when the poor man had lost his wife.

He changes his testimony, his times and he stopped being harassed and became embraced by the KR supporters, Mr Loughran answered 'Correct" to that question.

It really is quite unbelievable. Witness coaching, and bias with one witness and then a harrassed witness just wanting the online crazies to leave him be, so it certainly seems like he adjusted his testimony to facilitate that. AJMO

I disagree 100 percent. Dr. Russell has been practicing medicine for 30 years and in the ER at that, where the most horrific injuries are seen. She was most intelligent, polite, honest, and charismatic. There is no doubt the jury fell in love with her, just like the majority of Americans who are watching this trial. She was a much needed breath of fresh air! Finally, someone that didn't have the jury bored to tears because she was relatable and knew what she was talking about. Imo

 

[lohrtabitha]

The downside for the defence is they are now arguing that the conspiracy involves not just, Higgins, Proctor, Jen and Kerry but also Yuri B, Chief Berkowitz and the Police Commissioner of Boston!

IMO/MOO

With respect, it is no downside when it's the truth of the matter. Cover ups happen all the time. Yuri received Proctors unprofessional texts and as his supervisor, it was his job to reprimand him. Why didn't he? Berkowitz was in the Sallyport video where KRs taillight was operated on. We heard Sargeant Barros's credible testimony. One piece of taillight missing and not 47. Jen and Kerry lied about this? Why? Who are these people really protecting? I think it is someone we aren't allowed to blame it on in this trial, no thanks to Judge Cannone. Moo

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I disagree 100 percent. Dr. Russell has been practicing medicine for 30 years and in the ER at that, where the most horrific injuries are seen. She was most intelligent, polite, honest, and charismatic. There is no doubt the jury fell in love with her, just like the majority of Americans who are watching this trial. She was a much needed breath of fresh air! Finally, someone that didn't have the jury bored to tears because she was relatable and knew what she was talking about. Imo

Americans as well as many of us who live elsewhere and can’t believe the travesty going on!

 

[mrjitty]

If the threat was "do the right thing"in June of 2023...

He had already talked to at least the defense PI, and possibly already the FBI by the time that "threat" occured.

So the threat did not influence what he said 2 weeks after Jan 2022.

The 3rd party, the one doing the threatening, saying 'do the right thing' in June of 2023,... could not have influenced something he already did, the 3rd party just didn't know and assumed because he had connections to the Alberts that he would not do "the right thing".

In this instance, I don't think the times of his passes really matter, it was between 2:30ish am until JOK was found. The substance of his testimony that he didn't see a body and that he saw a Ford Edge outside on one pass is what mattered.

Unless there was more to this threat, but that is how I understand it right now.

All JMO

A testifying witness being subjected to threats is obviously relevant for the jury. This isn't controversial. Ditto inconsistency with FBI statements. Ditto inconsistent testimony in Court or before the grand jury.

What you are getting into, i.e how to weight the various attacks on credibility, is the role of the jury. They might see it the way you see it. They might decide he did tell one thing to the FBI and is now trying to deny what he told them. Which is damaging.

Whatever the case, that is the jury's job.

MOO

 

[Wishbone]

Yes, BH arrived with BA and NA and parked near the mailbox. Many T1 testimonies say this.

Not any clear evidence BH was there during the 8-ten min KR was parked out front??
KR doesn’t mention seeing BH jeep, or BH.
None of the young people mention seeing BH leave or his jeep.

It isn’t necessary for anyone to have lied about seeing BH. None of the young people T1 testimonies describe seeing BH leave.

I have zero agenda to help either side-

It is possible No One is guilty of harming JO resulting in his death.
But the DA decided not to investigate as an accident- to press charges.
Now both sides are adamant they are in the right and the other side is liars.

The crimes IMO are
-Proctor’s actions,
-the DA allowing this to go to trial,
- Canton Police for having tunnel vision and not investigating options other than KR,
- Human nature- willing to think anyone who doesn’t support the story I have must be a conspiring liar. This declaration of Us and Them is happening on both sides.

The forest is being lost in the trees, JO is not getting justice. JO may have not needed justice.

IMO

Bye his own testimony BH arrived at the fairview house before any of the others.

Higgins said Albert issued an “open invitation” to the people at the bar to come back to his home on Fairview Road. When he arrived at the home, he said there was a “dusting” of snow on the ground, so he did a sweep through the driveway with his plow before parking by the mailbox.
Higgins said he was only at the home for a short period time, leaving between 12:30 and 1 a.m., and never saw O’Keefe or Read there. He said he texted O’Keefe asking where he was but never received a response.

Karen Read trial: Read kissed Brian Higgins 2 weeks before O’Keefe’s death

In bombshell testimony Friday, special agent Brian Higgins spoke about his romantic relationship with Karen Read in the weeks before her boyfriend's death.

www.masslive.com

 

[AngTxGal]

One will never know all the whereabouts BH was because he threw away his phone. So did BA. If one doesn’t see the menance in that, then their mind is definitely not open. Moo

So where was BH’s vehicle?
I have no issues with changing my view- based on evidence.

Yes BH and BA getting rid of their phones looks suspicious, but that doesn’t mean they conspired to do something to JO.
It could support that they reacted afterwards to remove any connection to themselves.

I will question, interrogate the facts, and look for holes and patterns without bias, that is an open mind.

What I am asking..
Did JO have to go into the house? No
Did JO have to encounter BH? No

There has to be an explanation that fits all the evidence that can’t be disputed, not just some of it.
I’ll wait for more evidence to figure it out

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

With respect, it is no downside when it's the truth of the matter. Cover ups happen all the time. Yuri received Proctors unprofessional texts and as his supervisor, it was his job to reprimand him. Why didn't he? Berkowitz was in the Sallyport video where KRs taillight was operated on. We heard Sargeant Barros's credible testimony. One piece of taillight missing and not 47. Jen and Kerry lied about this? Why? Who are these people really protecting? I think it is someone we aren't allowed to blame it on in this trial, no thanks to Judge Cannone. Moo

Weren't Berkowitz's son and BA's son close friends? For all we know, there were more un-named people at that house. I think the rot is deep. Canton seems to be hiding something.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Weren't Berkowitz's son and BA's son close friends? For all we know, there were more un-named people at that house. I think the rot is deep. Canton seems to be hiding something.

Yes but it was Chris Alberts son , the one we can't mention, that played baseball with Berkowitz's son.

 

[ShadyLady]

Bye his own testimony BH arrived at the fairview house before any of the others.

Higgins said Albert issued an “open invitation” to the people at the bar to come back to his home on Fairview Road. When he arrived at the home, he said there was a “dusting” of snow on the ground, so he did a sweep through the driveway with his plow before parking by the mailbox.
Higgins said he was only at the home for a short period time, leaving between 12:30 and 1 a.m., and never saw O’Keefe or Read there. He said he texted O’Keefe asking where he was but never received a response.

Karen Read trial: Read kissed Brian Higgins 2 weeks before O’Keefe’s death

In bombshell testimony Friday, special agent Brian Higgins spoke about his romantic relationship with Karen Read in the weeks before her boyfriend's death.

www.masslive.com

I also think the reason no one saw BH's jeep was that he parked it in the driveway. There were three rows, and it was snowing. So BA would have told BH where to park. NOT on the road.

 

[missy1974]

Or he walked toward the tree line to pee, part of his 36 steps

Then he couldn’t be seen because he had fallen and hit his head and wasn’t laying flat on the ground out in the open, he was up under the trees and maybe propped up against one of those trees.

Body temp when found seems to me still too high-
If he had been exposed many hours
I’d like to hear what an expert says.

IMO

Since I found out his blood alcohol level (0.20?) and Dr. Wolf saying it's a common injury in drunk people falling, I have wondered if whatever happened had nothing to do with anyone else.

My first thought was the going for a pee at the trees (boys will be boys lol), but I can't think of a logical way the dog bit him. The dog would not be "out" if there was other strangers in the home too.

Did he go to the wrong door? was the dog there? did the dog bite him and he managed to close the door and make a run for it? slip and fall? slip and hit his head on something ? there was a flag pole, a fire hydrant and I think what is an electrical box close by, if it was dark and he was drunk, did he see those?

I am not convinced the ground/grass was as frozen as some think. Just from personal experience.

BUT then... not one person saw him on the lawn and I find that hard to believe too, especially if there was a small amount of snow. Someone in the snow would stick out. I live in the prairies, we have to watch for wildlife all the time when driving, it is so much easier when there is snow.

all JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

In T1 BA testified that BH was in the driveway when they got there from the Waterfall. Then he said Higgins backed out, so they could pull in. Then BA said BH pulled in behind their car. I can't remember if he said it was to the right or the left side.

 

[AngTxGal]

I disagree 100 percent. Dr. Russell has been practicing medicine for 30 years and in the ER at that, where the most horrific injuries are seen. She was most intelligent, polite, honest, and charismatic. There is no doubt the jury fell in love with her, just like the majority of Americans who are watching this trial. She was a much needed breath of fresh air! Finally, someone that didn't have the jury bored to tears because she was relatable and knew what she was talking about. Imo

IMO means in my opinion
This means others could have different opinion.
If the jury thinks there is a way to distinguish skin wounds from dog teeth compared to claws and Russell is supposed to be an expert- they may not understand why she can’t say for certain.
She can’t say for certain- science doesn’t work that way. She may be the expert that creates a protocol to distinguish dog bite wounds from dog scratch wounds, from other kinds of wounds. There is little need for someone to write up such a protocol and do the work to validate a methodology- in most cases where dog wounds are found we know it was a dog.
Brennan used the less than 100% as a way to throw the baby out with the bath water- because he knows many in the public will see that as a flaw in her testimony.
I don’t- I get it. Russell and other experts have said- dog bites

If those wounds are concluded to be dog bites- the prosecution has a big problem. As does BA! So they will fight to put holes in that conclusion.

Will this impact KR- No. She will be found Not Guilty. Too much reasonable doubt has been created already.

IMO

 

[missy1974]

A testifying witness being subjected to threats is obviously relevant for the jury. This isn't controversial. Ditto inconsistency with FBI statements. Ditto inconsistent testimony in Court or before the grand jury.

What you are getting into, i.e how to weight the various attacks on credibility, is the role of the jury. They might see it the way you see it. They might decide he did tell one thing to the FBI and is now trying to deny what he told them. Which is damaging.

Whatever the case, that is the jury's job.

MOO

So do you think it is equally as damaging that Dever told the FBI something pretty specific and now says it was a "false memory"?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

So do you think it is equally as damaging that Dever told the FBI something pretty specific and now says it was a "false memory"?

I'm sure that aspect is just being ignored. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

So do you think it is equally as damaging that Dever told the FBI something pretty specific and now says it was a "false memory"?

Now you are asking me a different question which is my personal evaluation of two different witnesses.

All I have been saying, is that each side gets wide ambit to impeach witnesses.

What the jury makes of it, I cannot say.

My own personal take on Devers is she probably saw them talking in the Sallyport, but didn't know that the Lexus had not been impounded yet. So she assumed whatever vehicle was on the camera was the Lexus. Seems an easy mistake to make, given the Lexus likely would have been there the next time she came to her shift.

Who knows.

IMO

 

[themonk]

It's worth noting Judge Cannone already granted the CW broad scope

RSBM

oh you don't say

 

[AngTxGal]

Since I found out his blood alcohol level (0.20?) and Dr. Wolf saying it's a common injury in drunk people falling, I have wondered if whatever happened had nothing to do with anyone else.

My first thought was the going for a pee at the trees (boys will be boys lol), but I can't think of a logical way the dog bit him. The dog would not be "out" if there was other strangers in the home too.

Did he go to the wrong door? was the dog there? did the dog bite him and he managed to close the door and make a run for it? slip and fall? slip and hit his head on something ? there was a flag pole, a fire hydrant and I think what is an electrical box close by, if it was dark and he was drunk, did he see those?

I am not convinced the ground/grass was as frozen as some think. Just from personal experience.

BUT then... not one person saw him on the lawn and I find that hard to believe too, especially if there was a small amount of snow. Someone in the snow would stick out. I live in the prairies, we have to watch for wildlife all the time when driving, it is so much easier when there is snow.

all JMO

I watched the T1 testimony of the young people in the house- none of them mention seeing the dog. One mentions BAJr taking one of the girls up stairs to see Chloe.
BAJr says BA came home and when he found out BAJr had not let the dog out, he went up stairs and let Chloe out the back door. The timing of this could line up with KR and JO arriving.

It is possible Chloe heard JO out in the front and jumped the fence and bit him and knocked him down. BA may have not known. He called her and she came back to the back door.
If JO walked to pee in the trees- which would be a thing a guy would do after drinking… he was holding his phone, and a bar glass. What hand did he use to work his pants?
A guy wouldn’t stand near the flag pole to pee in the open- they would walk to the tree line.
There are six to eight large trees along the property line toward the fence- diameter of trunks is 10-12 inches and they have leaves. So it is dark under there- even if there are street lights.

Where did he put his phone to pee- probably in his back pocket?
How did he defend himself from a dog fooling with pants and holding a bar glass in hand?
Did he throw the glass at the dog?

If he fell under the trees where he peed, hit his head, skull trauma can cause seizures- could not get up- he may have been out of sight.
Traumatic brain injury can cause seizures, and vomitting, movement around on the ground- lost shoe, lost cap, lost phone from back pocket to under body. Now the phone no longer registering movements.
He wasn’t easy to see, by people leaving or by Lucky while snowplowing.

One of the young ladies leaving says she saw something in that area of the yard in the same area.

I also saw parts of a report regarding the Albert’s dog- it attacked a woman who was walking her dog by jumping over the back fence. It did this months after JO was killed! I’m working on getting a clean copy- it is a court filing by the defense to get Animal Control records regarding Chloe.

None of this explains or excludes a cop coverup- that could have started when JO was found.

I can’t reconcile the body temp issue- JO out in the weather for hours so I think he should have been colder than 80F.

That would be a Bomb Shell- to get the woman to testify- who called animal control because her dog and herself were harmed by BA’s dog who jumped the fence!

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

Now you are asking me a different question which is my personal evaluation of two different witnesses.

All I have been saying, is that each side gets wide ambit to impeach witnesses.

What the jury makes of it, I cannot say.

My own personal take on Devers is she probably saw them talking in the Sallyport, but didn't know that the Lexus had not been impounded yet. So she assumed whatever vehicle was on the camera was the Lexus. Seems an easy mistake to make, given the Lexus likely would have been there the next time she came to her shift.

Who knows.

IMO

If she is that dumb, I imagine she will be worthless in testifying in any court room again. Better find a new job.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

RSBM

oh you don't say

I know. Really shocking, right? /end sarcasm