MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[PamCake]

It was an ongoing search, not first, second etc... I would think first the weather needed to clear up before a complete search was possible. AJMO

Waiting for the weather to clear? No, what needed to happen was immediate establishment of an evidence tent, careful isolation of the area where the body was found, and immediate SERT investigation. That's what professionals do. These guys, they didn't want to have to leave the warmth of the station and work in that weather, wahhh, wahhh, wahhh.

 

[Malleeboy]

Yes the paperwork submitted to the court said he was "pursuing" his degree, not a lie, IMO. He never said on the stand that he repeatedly claimed to have his degree yet, IMO. He said he never looked at his online presence on those sites that list those kind of things, he's never updated anything since he was, IIRC, expecting to graduate but it was put on hold (for reasons that are his own)? He was very knowledgeable, IMO, about the data he testified about. AJMO

He didn't lie to this court but he has misrepresented his qualifications to another court. He had updated the site because the completion date range changed.

Bits verses bytes is IT 101, it is core knowledge, 8 bits to a byte. It wasn't a one off mistake but a mistake in a report, that he then went on to be dismissive of other people not getting the right amount of data. To get something like that wrong over an extended period is a fundamental error, that goes to his lack of knowledge on IT.

 

[Malleeboy]

Well it's either unsubstantiated innuendos or ask the person they're insinuating these things about , MO. Treat him as a hostile witness if need be. If he takes the 5th, that certainly wouldn't be a good thing in front of the jury, right? I just don't understand why the defense wouldn't subpoena the main so-called planter of evidence?

IT would have Brennan a free swing with a friendly witness to ask leading question.
Proctor was the lead investigator. Have you ever heard of a case where the prosecution has not called the lead investigator.

 

[lohrtabitha]

You and I heard very different testimony then. Barros conceded that what he saw matched the image the CW showed him under cross, did he not? He also admitted the snow could have obstructed his view, didn't he?

Nope. He said he knew what he saw when AJ finished.

 

[Leilei]

Yes the paperwork submitted to the court said he was "pursuing" his degree, not a lie, IMO. He never said on the stand that he repeatedly claimed to have his degree yet, IMO. He said he never looked at his online presence on those sites that list those kind of things, he's never updated anything since he was, IIRC, expecting to graduate but it was put on hold (for reasons that are his own)? He was very knowledgeable, IMO, about the data he testified about. AJMO

His profile on the company's website stated that he had his Bachelors, as did the downloadable CV.
I can't imagine him not checking those two things, especially when the work that he was designated as an "expert" in requires extremely high attention to detail.
If he can't manage to have his company profile correct, then that puts a huge blemish on everything he has tested and testified to.
Plus the company took down almost all of his education claims within days.
If I were a client, past or present, I would be furious at the deception.
IMO.

 

[Anniesflowers]

Yes the paperwork submitted to the court said he was "pursuing" his degree, not a lie, IMO. He never said on the stand that he repeatedly claimed to have his degree yet, IMO. He said he never looked at his online presence on those sites that list those kind of things, he's never updated anything since he was, IIRC, expecting to graduate but it was put on hold (for reasons that are his own)? He was very knowledgeable, IMO, about the data he testified about. AJMO

The major didn’t even exist at the university at which he was ‘pursuing’ his degree. Of course, he lied. He mixed up bits and bytes. Not professional.

 

[Soulmagent]

It should be noted that the defense did NOT agree with what the Judge told the jury about the 'holes' and they plan on writing a motion (?) and send it to the judge by morning. Alessi said something at the very end of the day. No one was on mics so it was a bit hard to hear.

I caught that and her attitude with him today seemed more than short.
Brennon has brow beat every expert for days ,and had the case for 25 court days. skipping days in court , ACCEPTING a report to allow a shill time to watch the trial and do math poorly.
The misrepresenting the holes today ,that should be reported that is a poor faith thing to do and someone should call the bar. He was leading with a lie again, like lying to witness about what the ME report said.
It makes one really wonder what all Canton stands to loss with the case.

 

[bobbymkii]

Judge Beverly Cannone is scaring me at the moment. Before today I thought she was at least doing the bare minimum (and absolutely nothing more than that) to ensure Karen Read gets a fair trial. I think she has now lowered that standard substantially.

I don't know what Hank Brennan really feels about this case, in his heart, if it's going as bad for the CW as a lot of us believe it is and this was an act of desperation. All I know is that he knows he can do stuff like this and get away with it with no consequences whatsoever when this judge is presiding.

Judge Beverly would sooner volunteer herself as a real-life test crash dummy to have a 6000lb SUV reverse into her than she would declare a mistrial with prejudice, and Hank knows this.

I live 5,000 miles and 5 international time zones away from where this is happening, and I can smell the stink of this corruption from all the way over here on the other side of the Atlantic.

MOO

 

[Malleeboy]

Judge Beverly Cannone is scaring me at the moment. Before today I thought she was at least doing the bare minimum (and absolutely nothing more than that) to ensure Karen Read gets a fair trial. I think she has now lowered that standard substantially.

I don't know what Hank Brennan really feels about this case, in his heart, if it's going as bad for the CW as a lot of us believe it is and this was an act of desperation. All I know is that he knows he can do stuff like this and get away with it with no consequences whatsoever when this judge is presiding.

Judge Beverly would sooner volunteer herself as a real-life test crash dummy to have a 6000lb SUV reverse into her than she would declare a mistrial with prejudice, and Hank knows this.

I live 5,000 miles and 5 international time zones away from where this is happening, and I can smell the stink of this corruption from all the way over here on the other side of the Atlantic.

MOO

What is particularly gobsmacking is that after Brennan misrepresented evidence that he should have known about, it is Alessi that gets the verbal smackdown for not paying full attention to Judge Bev. I know understand why Brennan is getting paid so much, he is prosecutor and also judge director ( a new role invented for him, where he tells the judge what is going to happen when he breaks the rules and she meekly agrees to whatever he wants.)

 

[missy1974]

Respectfully, and granted IANAL….. but after several legal matters and at least one divorce through a civil attorney (a retired former judge) - IIUC an attorney will and should do all and everything practical and legally available to preserve for their client all options for future action.

And IIUC that might be done regardless of their confidence, belief, or strength of their case. Their reasons might include strategies of the defense known only to themselves and their client.

And for reasons including these, it seems entirely practical and prudent that Alessi made the request on the record today seeking a mistrial. On the basis and grounds cited. And IIUC relating to matters of this prosecutor in the second trial today. MOO

Has anyone been able to find a reliable source (a lawyer? a judge? ) that says they should not have asked for a mistrial? should have just shut up and sat down?

I did look earlier, but couldn't find anything.

 

[bobbymkii]

What is particularly gobsmacking is that after Brennan misrepresented evidence that he should have known about, it is Alessi that gets the verbal smackdown for not paying full attention to Judge Bev. I know understand why Brennan is getting paid so much, he is prosecutor and also judge director ( a new role invented for him, where he tells the judge what is going to happen when he breaks the rules and she meekly agrees to whatever he wants.)

I think she just doesn't care anymore if this case results in a guilty verdict that gets overturned on appeal, or even what consequences that might have for herself or anyone else.

Maybe she never did, I'm just only realising it now because I don't want to be as biased as the Karen-haters are, but from the other side of the opinion divide on this case.

JMO

 

[missy1974]

IT would have Brennan a free swing with a friendly witness to ask leading question.
Proctor was the lead investigator. Have you ever heard of a case where the prosecution has not called the lead investigator.

The CW tried to do the "Proctor wasn't the lead investigator", but the defense asked every witness they could if Proctor was the lead investigator, I don't know of any that disagreed, other than Yuri, who became the proxy lead investigator after Proctor got his aSSed fired.

 

[lohrtabitha]

It should be noted that the defense did NOT agree with what the Judge told the jury about the 'holes' and they plan on writing a motion (?) and send it to the judge by morning. Alessi said something at the very end of the day. No one was on mics so it was a bit hard to hear.

My man! Get em Tiger!

 

[Leilei]

My man! Get em Tiger!

Lordy he was MAD today.
Justifiably so.
I'll bet they heard his voice all over the courthouse.
IMO.

 

[waldojabba]

I finally caught up. With the testimony at the end of the day regarding the wounds to the front and back of John’s head, I have to wonder if the O’Keefes ever doubt the way John died. More and more we’re hearing from experts who have said he wasn’t hit by a car. More and more the evidence points to an injury caused inside the house. Will they finally get around to thinking that the people inside the house not only did the damage but let him die?

I know they want justice but I really hope they also want the truth. I feel so very bad for John and Karen. One life ended and the other destroyed, all because of the behaviour of the people in that house.

MOO

Honestly I dont think its about Justice for them at this point.
I sense what keeps them going is their all consuming hate for Karen
And their civil lawsuit for the cash.
I know that sounds COLD but people cope in different ways.
Sometimes its easier to focus your anger externally in order to cope.
I have not heard much about a college fund for the kids but that would make a nice focus for them or its even a project for BPD to spear head.
Doing what is best for the Kids honors John
JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I finally caught up. With the testimony at the end of the day regarding the wounds to the front and back of John’s head, I have to wonder if the O’Keefes ever doubt the way John died. More and more we’re hearing from experts who have said he wasn’t hit by a car. More and more the evidence points to an injury caused inside the house. Will they finally get around to thinking that the people inside the house not only did the damage but let him die?

I know they want justice but I really hope they also want the truth. I feel so very bad for John and Karen. One life ended and the other destroyed, all because of the behaviour of the people in that house.

MOO

It's very sad what has occurred here. I feel sorry for John's ex-girlfriend who I've seen in the courtroom attending the trial every single day. I think she must have really loved John and it's too bad it never worked out between them. She seems like a nice woman. She kind of keeps to herself at the end of the bench mostly.
MOO

 

[waldojabba]

Judge Beverly Cannone is scaring me at the moment. Before today I thought she was at least doing the bare minimum (and absolutely nothing more than that) to ensure Karen Read gets a fair trial. I think she has now lowered that standard substantially.

I don't know what Hank Brennan really feels about this case, in his heart, if it's going as bad for the CW as a lot of us believe it is and this was an act of desperation. All I know is that he knows he can do stuff like this and get away with it with no consequences whatsoever when this judge is presiding.

Judge Beverly would sooner volunteer herself as a real-life test crash dummy to have a 6000lb SUV reverse into her than she would declare a mistrial with prejudice, and Hank knows this.

I live 5,000 miles and 5 international time zones away from where this is happening, and I can smell the stink of this corruption from all the way over here on the other side of the Atlantic.

MOO

You are so right. Imagine being the Judge and thinking this is all okay.
As a Mass resident/Norfolk County, I did not think I could be any more outraged. Her behavior coupled with Hank's was so astounding today. I felt like they crossed even further over the line than ever. Depressing to think about.
I came away from watching today just gobsmacked.
All her talk about wasting time - is so far out of line because the time "wasted" was all on the CW.
Everybody called it across all platforms -
Purring at the jurors "Oh we are so far ahead of schedule" Blah blah and now lecturing the defense to speed it up. Dismissive of credentials for expert witnesses.
I dont know how the defense keeps their tempers in check and how Karen and her family can endure. They are remarkable in the face of it all.
JMO

 

[arielilane]

It’s very reckless for the defendant and social media to claim that the holes in the hoodie were misrepresented by the CW. Mistakes are made, and Attorney Brennan owned it. It’s brave and honest of him to admit it and take ownership. His record shows he’s fair and honest.

Just to name a few "mishaps" of the defense:
-- The defense misidentified a trooper at JJO’s autopsy as MP and showed it to the jury.
-- Used Signal app and deleted 100 text messages... Why would a defense and witness use an encrypted app anyway.
-- Misleading that ARCCA independent witnesses.
-- Providing transportation meals, entertainment, and sharing meals with witnesses.

Just an opinion

 

[arielilane]

Prosecutors with the Norfolk district attorney’s office claimed Read's phone records will show she called her mother three times, at 1:14am, 4:38am, and 4:42am, and her father at 6:32am - none of which were answered.

Karen Read twist as prosecutors seek phone records with her parents

 

[justwannahelp]

Sorry SO long, but I NEEDED to test all this out for myself. So I’m passing along in case anyone wants to “check” it. Totally understand if no one reads….its LONG.

KEEP IN MIND:
Fahrenheit is not linear, so when doing math with Celsius and Fahrenheit, you have to add/subtract in Celsius THEN convert to Fahrenheit.

Ok so here we go….
I looked in depth (over 28 hours ) into “accidental” / not illness or surgery related hypothermic patient warming methods and how many degrees per hour each method raises core body temp.

The methods are broken down into 2 categories, passive and active. For THIS exercise, in order to believe BOTH the CW (he was out on the lawn 5hrs 45 mins) AND the ER (John was 80.1F / 26.7C) then warming methods HAD TO have increased his core temp A LOT — around 24.7 C - 26.7C. We are talking raising someone’s temp by 77F - 80F. It definitely can be, has been, and is done, but only when the Cadillac of warming methods is used, ECMO (Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation), and used for several hours. ECMO was not used on OJO, likely for 2 reasons:
—Severe brain injury due to head trauma “disqualifies” a patient from ECMO primarily due to the increased risk of bleeding complications associated with the required anticoagulation, and the potential for these complications to exacerbate intracranial hemorrhage
—There isn’t an ECMO unit at Good Samaritan in Brockton, MA

Moving onto Passive warming. It is not effective on a patient less than 29.4 C / 85 F because patient is unable to thermoregulate. So passive methods are used to stop heat loss, not increase, in such cases. OJO, IF on the lawn 5 hrs 45 minutes, would have been 0-2 degrees C / 32-36F therefore unable to thermoregulate. (He would have been unable to thermoregulate at 80.1 F the temp they say he was at intake.)

Passive Warming Methods
— move out of cold to warm area (heated room or ambulance in this case), remove wet clothes, apply blankets (increase of .5 - 1 degrees C/ hour IF thermoregulating)

ACTIVE warming methods used on OJO according to Dr. Rice’s testimony:
— Warm Intravenous fluids via IV (increase of 1-1.5 degrees C/ hour)

— Forced Air Warmth, such as the Bear Hugger (increase of 2-2.5 degrees C/ hour)

— Warm humidified ventilation via mask or ventilator (increase of 1-2.5 degrees C/ hr)

TIMELINE (from testimonies):
~12:30am OJO is alleged to have been run over
6:03am OJO is found
6:04 am 911 was called
~6:10am ambulance arrives on scene
~6:15 am stretcher is pulled onto lawn to transfer OJO
~6:20am ambulance leaves
6:47am OJO arrives in ER unit still asystolic with a core body temp of 80.1 degrees
7:50am OJO is pronounced dead

Based on timeline, from approx 6:15am to 6:45am OJO is IN ambulance where we know passive warming methods were used according to testimony. For THIS exercise we are ASSUMING he has been out in the cold since around 12:30am. So we can estimate his core body temp when put inside ambulance to have been 0 to 2 C / 32 - 36 F based on science in link at bottom of post and the chart at bottom of post that comes from the link.

The passive methods EMT used likely didn’t raise his temp. Only maintained it. (As established earlier, OJO was not able to thermoregulate.) But let’s go ahead and be generous with warming him up and ASSUME for this exercise passive worked, and they raised his temp .25 C in the half hour he was in the ambulance. (The lower end of passive increase range after a half hour.) So he would now be .25- 2.25 C / 33-36 F at 6:47am upon arrival to ER.

In the ER they attempted to raise his core temp for 1 hr before pronouncing him dead at 7:50 am according to timeline, but Dr. Rice stated in his testimony (linked below) that they attempted warming methods on him for a half hour. But we need to get his temp up a LOT, so let’s go with the timeline and be generous saying they warmed him from the time he arrived until TOD, 1hr.

Dr. Rice said in his testimony they used a bear hugger and warm intravenous fluids. I’m going to assume they were also giving him warm ventilation since that’s a pretty standard active warming method and Dr. Rice’s saying he was intubated to help breathing. & again, I need to be generous with warming him in order to get to 80.1F / 26.7 C .

To determine total core body temp POSSIBLE INCREASE, I used the lower range of possible increase for passive methods since OJO couldn’t thermoregulate, and the HIGHER end of possible temp increase range for each of the Active warming methods.

TOTAL POSSIBLE CORE TEMP INCREASE FOR EACH METHOD (passive in ambulance plus active in ER):
— Passive methods: .25 C
— Warm IV fluids: 1.5 C
— Forced Air Warmth/ Bear Hugger: 2.5 C
— Warm ventilation: 2.5 C

TOTAL POSSIBLE CORE TEMP INCREASE IS 6.75 C (44.15 F)

So, 0-2 C (temp he would have been when put inside ambulance after 5hrs 45 mins on lawn)

PLUS 6.75 C (total possible core temp increase from both passive and active warming methods)

EQUALS 6.75 to 8.75 C /44 to 48 F at time of death.

44-48 F is the TOTAL POSSIBLE core body temp he could have been at 7:50am if REALLY left out in those conditions for 5 hrs 45 minutes.

NOW, let’s do a SECOND exercise and go backwards with the temp they say he REALLY was.

Dr. Rice said he was 80.1 F (26.72 C) upon arrival in the ER. He also said “despite efforts for approximately 1/2 hour, there was not a significant warming of his core temperature.” So maybe they were only able to MAINTAIN his temp, so he arrived at 80.1 F and was the same at TOD??

Still though, for this exercise, let’s ASSUME they were successful and stick with 6.75 C being the total amount his core temp could have possibly increased in both ambulance passive methods and ER active methods combined.

We are working backwards from what the ER says he was, 80.1 F / 26.7 C, to determine what he could have been at 6:17am BEFORE warming methods began in ambulance.

The Math:
80.1 F / 26.72 C (temp in ER)

MINUS 6.75 C (total possible increase by warming methods)

EQUALS 19.97 C / 68 F (temp he would have been when FOUND)

So it’s and more likely he was found around 68F / 20 C based on the medical records, warming methods used, and charted core body temp upon intake.

According to the hypothermia chart 68 F/ 19.97 C occurs at approximately 1 hr and 40 mins exposure in the conditions that night in a light layer of clothing. So we can assume from this second exercise he was put out on the lawn around 4:37 am/ KR could NOT have hit him at 12:30am.

We have to choose who/what we believe, the CW or the medical records. We cannot believe both because it’s scientifically impossible for both to be true. The numbers are WAY too far apart to believe both, and science doesn’t lie. He could NOT have been warmed by more than 6.75 C during the 1.5 hours he was under medical care.

It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for him to have been out in the elements for 5 hrs 45 mins and have been 80.1F / 26.7C in the ER even AFTER warming methods.

Now for the THIRD exercise, let’s be most accurate with the science. (We are no longer being generous in an attempt to get him to 80 F from 32-36 F, what he would have been on the lawn after 5 hrs 45 mins.)

So being totally true to science, we know he couldn’t thermoregulate. So the passive methods in ambulance didn’t increase and only maintained his temp. And considering they weren’t having success, the active methods in ER likely only warmed him at the lower possible ranges, collectively that would be 4 degrees C total possible warming. So if he was raised by 4 degrees C, he was most likely 22.7C / 73F when found.

The math:
26.7C in ER

MINUS 4C (MOST likely amount his temp was able to increase from warming methods)

EQUALS 22.7 C / 73F when found

22.7 C occurs after 1 hr 15 mins in those conditions, so he was most likely put out there around 5am, 1hr 15 mins before put in ambulance. And keep in mind alcohol and blood loss quickens temp loss. Based on this staying hard core true to science exercise, exercise 3, I’m wondering if JM called someone after OJO’s niece called her at 4:53am and KR said i need to find John.

Let’s look at what happened around 5am, the time he would have been put out there according to exercise Three done with with 4 C being the total amount they were able to increase to get him to 80.1 F.

4:53 a.m.: Jen McCabe receives a call from John O’Keefe’s niece, who was told to call her by Karen Read, and learns that O’Keefe did not return home the night before. After the niece speaks briefly to JM, the niece gives the phone to Read, who decides to drive to McCabe’s home.

5 a.m.: Karen Read calls Kerry Roberts. She tells Roberts O’Keefe did not come home the night before and asks her to help look for him. Roberts calls the police non-emergency line to ask if there were any plow accidents, as well as Good Samaritan Hospital, before driving to meet Read and Jen McCabe at McCabe’s home.

It is my theory, that SOMEONE around 5am called someone at the Albert’s residence to make sure they moved OJO onto the lawn before they arrived with KR at 6:03am. SOMEONE then put OJO out there around 5am because Biology/Science doesn’t lie.

In summary, anyone choosing to believe OJO was hit by KR around 12:30am must also say the ER’s recorded core body temp was very very wrong. WAY off.


Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

Dr. Rice’s testimony (ER doc)

At the 6:45 mark he says there was a breathing tube and arrived intubated

At the 15:55 mark he states the warming methods used

At the 17:40 mark he says “despite efforts for approximately 1/2 hour there was not a significant warming of his core body temp.”