MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

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  • #81
@Tortoise just bringing your post over

There is an additional major problem here which is Dr Wolfe also did not contest 1162 or the Traverse collision so far

So we are left with the defence conceding the data shows Karen drove 24 mph in reverse and the tail light breakage did not happen at 1 Meadows. Given the SERT search began before the Lexus makes it to the Sallyport one can only conclude the tail light was broken at 34F?

MOO

What? Dr Wolfe has no expertise in key cycles. Why would he even begin to opine on 1162, or any other key cycle? His expert opinion, backed up by multiple degrees and certifications, and ACTUAL science and reconstruction examples (multiple, at that) all concludes the damage to the Lexus is not consistent with striking JO’s arm. Period. It doesn’t actually matter what happened beyond that simple conclusion. If her Lexus didn’t strike him, the entire case is out the window.
 
  • #82
The totality of the evidence speaks volumes- I chose one test because they all show the same thing to me. Highly unlikely.-
And I believe- not sure here- The diffuser was not broken in an of Wolfe’s tests but was in KR’s taillight.

Flexibility
I have changed my mind on this case, twice. Once I got more information I adjusted to what is likely and ruled out what is unlikely. My ego is not involved, I have no need to be right, my emotions are in check. It isn’t in me to follow the pack, or jump on the bandwagon.
I get no jollies from guessing right in a case, a person died, it isn’t a game.

Trials are open to the public for review to be sure they are fair and justice is served. Is justice being served here? Not sure yet. How is science being presented- that is my interest.

The totality of the evidence doesn’t ‘prove’ anything to me. It suggests a great deal, and those suggestions are plenty for Reasonable Doubt to exist.

Prove??
Science doesn’t ‘prove’, it actually works to disprove. When you can’t disprove you are left with what is the most likely.
‘With a reasonable scientific certainty’ is what they are saying in the trial- which I don’t like at all. It assumes science has certainty. Not so. But most people don’t know that.

Don’t Know
The harder question is- What actually happened? I’m still working on that one, and haven’t landed on an answer that fits all of the evidence neatly.

Unlikely
Do I think it is possible for taillight fragments that splinter and fly in the air to align themselves in a manner to cause patterned wounds? No- not any more than I would expect dog teeth pulled out of a skull and thrown at an arm 30 mph to make patterned wounds. Highly unlikely- impossible
The force of two opposing jaws filled with attached teeth is Highly likely. IMO


Unsure
If JOK was exposed outside from 12:30 to 6AM, wouldn’t his body be colder than the 80F that was measured? I think so and cannot reconcile that info- no matter how he arrived in the snow.
The answer to this question isn’t relevant to KR’s case- so it isn’t coming up in the trial.

IMO
BBM - great point comparing flying loose teeth and flying plastic

I do think JOK’s body temp IS relevant to the case because what OJO’s was upon arrival to the hospital proves it was impossible for him to have been out there in those conditions for 5.5hrs. Impossible. So he couldn’t have been hit by KR around 12:30am. If they were trying to prove she hit him at 4am, maybe….but that’s not the case. & there’s proof she was not there at 4am.

& to ME, the science necessary to understand core body temp is MUCH easier than all these recreated car accidents, and MUCH more to the point & without gray area, therefore believable.

These accident reconstructions are just GUESSES because there’s no proof of an accident even occurring. They don’t REALLY know where the car was and what it did. Techstream and black boxes are not precise (& i believe can be tampered with). I do not trust these particular officers. Nothing they say is believable based on their proven lies and shady behavior. So I’m looking for concrete evidence.

Body temp upon arrival cannot be tampered with, unless the ER nurse flat out lied or meant to put -.08 rather than 80.

I wouldn’t say the body temp would prove anything if it was SORT OF CLOSE to what it would have been if he was out there exposed for 5.5 hours. But it was no where NEAR what body temp would be in those conditions after 5.5 hours. He would have been 32 degrees F, yet he was 80F

I REALLY hope the defense calls in a body temp “expert” - a doctor who deals with hypothermia would do. It’s really easy to understand and proves OJO was sheltered SOMEWHERE for at LEAST 3 hours.

The only way I can “force” his body temp with the theory KR hit him around 12:30 is if someone pulled him in from the lawn after impact, gave him shelter/warmth for 3 or more hours, then put him back outside on the lawn. She (if she had hit him) would have been the only person with motive to do that. The motive being try to save him without people knowing she hit him. But we KNOW she didn’t do any of this because of ring cams and her cell phone. Anyone else who brought him indoors would not have a reason to call 911 immediately because they didn’t run over him.

So where did he get warmth for at least 3 hours? Technically, it doesn’t matter to this case. Just knowing he was sheltered AT ALL is enough to prove KR didn’t hit him

And the wounds are CLEARLY dog bites IMO. The SETS of parallel lines repeating themselves all over his arm. It’s obvious it wasn’t tail light, and looks EXACTLY like the wounds of other dog attack victims as you stated earlier. The only way to force the dog bites into the theory of KR hitting him around 12:30am is if a dog bit him while he was lying on the lawn after impact, which isn’t impossible. But there’s STILL that body temp proving he wasn’t on the lawn for 5.5 hours…..
 
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  • #83
Well, hung jury might give DA excuse not to look for the REAL killers.
They don’t need excuses not to look for the real killer. They were never interested in that.
 
  • #84
They don’t need excuses not to look for the real killer. They were never interested in that.
The main issue with this case is THE D.A. issss the actual problem and trickled down, all under his say. I would check that out so that you see no, the D.A. is the one here under investigation by the FBI and the communications back and forth with prosc. 'witnesses'.. He is absol not interested.. hence the big and hard lock her upness all the way down. WHY is the question as usual here, why. IMO
 
  • #85
I have seen someone call Dr Scordi Bello lazy and that she was a bad ME. Basically, discredit the character of the ME if you don’t like the results. MOO
Yes, I've seen that over and over again also. It's the same tactic that Brennan uses on the stand with defense witnesses and sometimes even his own witnesses if they can't agree with him. I've also noticed those who try to invoke sympathy for JOKs family. The evidence doesn't match their flawed narrative so they try to use other tactics to interfere with the right of Karen Read to an honest and thorough trial.
MOO
 
  • #86
The main issue with this case is THE D.A. issss the actual problem and trickled down, all under his say. I would check that out so that you see no, the D.A. is the one here under investigation by the FBI and the communications back and forth with prosc. 'witnesses'.. He is absol not interested.. hence the big and hard lock her upness all the way down. WHY is the question as usual here, why. IMO

I was so very interested, and looking forward to seeing MM on the stand. He was listed in the defense's witness list, but...I suppose things have changed...

things that make you go hmmmmm....
 
  • #87
  • #88
Yes, I've seen that over and over again also. It's the same tactic that Brennan uses on the stand with defense witnesses and sometimes even his own witnesses if they can't agree with him. I've also noticed those who try to invoke sympathy for JOKs family. The evidence doesn't match their flawed narrative so they try to use other tactics to interfere with the right of Karen Read to an honest and thorough trial.
MOO
Per Brennan, everyone's a victim except John and Karen.

Lots of boohoos from Alberts and McCabes....and now officers.

Is Devers really part of McCabe clan?
 
  • #89
"Jen went over to Karen, kind of put her arm around her, and she's like, 'Karen, you're coming with me. You're coming with me,'" Kolokithas testified. "And Karen's like, ‘What?...Where are we going?’"

"It just was strange," she testified. "It was just like, 'You're coming with me.'"
 
  • #90
"Jen went over to Karen, kind of put her arm around her, and she's like, 'Karen, you're coming with me. You're coming with me,'" Kolokithas testified. "And Karen's like, ‘What?...Where are we going?’"

"It just was strange," she testified. "It was just like, 'You're coming with me.'"
Jen is the stuff of nightmares
 
  • #91
  • #92
Since a few members are telling their stories about first getting involved with this case, I’ll tell mine too.
Did a search and apparently my first post on 9/15/2023. Dont think I’ve ;) stopped since. Started out on the fence for a while, complex case, then once things were sorted out, I understood the case. I followed the facts, evidence of science, data, and DNA in the case.

In regard to Attorney Brennan, I am a trial nut and love good lawyering. He is brilliant in the courtroom, yet relatable.


To add:

-- No, I dont hate KR (its all about the evidence against her)
-- My goal is truth in a case
-- Truth in the courtroom (under oath)
-- Doesnt matter who’s involved
-- Being an active participate on a true crime site is a privilege, being involved with seeking justice for those no longer having a voice, supporting the loved ones that lost their loved ones.

This is all my own opinion
 
  • #93
The main issue with this case is THE D.A. issss the actual problem and trickled down, all under his say. I would check that out so that you see no, the D.A. is the one here under investigation by the FBI and the communications back and forth with prosc. 'witnesses'.. He is absol not interested.. hence the big and hard lock her upness all the way down. WHY is the question as usual here, why. IMO
I imagine, alllll sorts of "favors" being called in. Who has "what" on who/whom?

Drugs, guns, what? I think CA seemed to get a very light sentence for hit and run, what other favors are out there?

If FBI really did close case on Karen, it obviously does not mean there isn't a bigger case pending at the end of this case. IMO

Boston, this is looking bad....
 
  • #94
Curious if the defense concede following:

-- “2:27 am google search "hos long to die in cold”
-- KR's Lexus hit John’s Chevy Traverse


No RG testimony at all. Google search debunked.
ARCCA basically showed the jury what happened to JJO.

moo
 
  • #95
I followed the facts, evidence of science, data, and DNA in the case.
RSBM


I would be interested in hearing you make the case for the defense, as an exercise, if you will.
 
  • #96
Just jumping in to say that in my previous post I typed he would have been 0 degrees F. I meant 0 degrees C or 32 degrees F. I know I’ve posted this chart a lot, but I’ve seen a few new names today so am posting again. Here’s where I’m getting this from
IMG_4339.webp

Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism
 
  • #97
RSBM


I would be interested in hearing you make the case for the defense, as an exercise, if you will.
OMG....I was JUST thinking that!!
 
  • #98
I was so very interested, and looking forward to seeing MM on the stand. He was listed in the defense's witness list, but...I suppose things have changed...

things that make you go hmmmmm....
I think many of us were hoping to see some of the defense’s list on the stand (including MM).

JMO, but after the defense group review of the trial so far, they are maybe feeling optimistic about the few witnesses they have presented so far and the crosses done on the CW witnesses that were presented. After all….they don’t need to even put on a case, but just show reasonable doubt.

“IF” the CW brings in any of these witnesses on rebuttal, the defense can gain their points on cross.

I assume the defense’s closing will address many of those not heard from in the CW case.
 
  • #99
  • #100
"For as long as I can remember, they have never parked a vehicle in front of their house," Loughran (Lucky) testified. "They've always had enough ample parking in the driveway."

SO I think BA would have told BH where to park. WHY lie about where he parked his jeep? What was the "story" that they agreed on before Karen decided to not take the plea deal, and per MM it became an "episode".
 
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