NOT GUILTY MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #38 Retrial

[MerlinFalcon]

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An explanation from Peter Tragos

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Bederow’s latest letter regarding the 4,000+ pages of information he requested for Turtleboy’s case is out on TB’s website for those who want to see it. I am not sure that I can post it here so you can check for yourselves.

 

[TDoc72]

Considering that deceased Officer JOK was one of Cox's Boston officers and the defense had his Officers Dever and

• Steven Ridge, Boston Police Department
• Heriberto Hernandez, Boston Police Department

on their witness list and it's "much ado about nothing" to Boston's top cop Cox?
Disgraceful to the late JOK.

Karen Read trial witness lists: Who’s returning, who’s new, and who’s missing?

Prosecutors and defense attorneys in the Karen Read case have submitted their witness lists. Here's who's on them.

www.boston.com

1—Does he speak to ALL of his officers that are about to testify?
2—Did he call in Officers Ridge and Hernandez as well? Or just Deever?

 

[Izzylizzy]

1—Does he speak to ALL of his officers that are about to testify?
2—Did he call in Officers Ridge and Hernandez as well? Or just Deever?

What I do know is that not ALL of Cox's officers are subpoenaed by the defense to testify at the trial of a deceased officer of his and who had previously talked with the FBI.

From Boston officer Brian Albert's testimony Hernandez drove back from the NYC memorial for a fallen police officer with him and BH.
IIRC: It was reported that Hernandez was assaulted by BA at a Christmas party, and both he and Officer Ridge had worked with BA and would have supposedly known of BA's violent tendencies,
I've read nothing about these 2 or anyone else being called by Cox like KD said she was.

Neither officer was called to testify by the defense in T2 just Officer Dever and she was the gift that just kept giving.
imo

 

[Malleeboy]

Why must both departments agree? How does that work now to get her placed on the Brady list?

If she is not placed on the Brady list and she testifies in any case, without disclosure of her issues to the Defence, then it will trigger a Brady violation, and if her testimony is important, then the case will very likely get dismissed with prejudice.

She basically cannot testify without the prosecutor declaring her issues to the Defence. Not telling causes lots of problems.

 

[Forest_Wood]

If she is not placed on the Brady list and she testifies in any case, without disclosure of her issues to the Defence, then it will trigger a Brady violation, and if her testimony is important, then the case will very likely get dismissed with prejudice.

She basically cannot testify without the prosecutor declaring her issues to the Defence. Not telling causes lots of problems.

So, for her to get on the Brady list, who decides? Is it her boss, the commissioner? Or is it the DA? Or both? Who gets the final say?

 

[sunshineray]

Or incriminating.

Yes I agree but I think we do differ greatly on who will be incriminated.

 

[sunshineray]

Due to AJ's letter (demand), the spotlight is centered now on the BPD/CPD and the NCDAO. They all must collectively agree, post haste to place Dever on the Brady List. There is no alternative, constitutionally. IMO, the courts will be ( should be ) on high alert for anything other than cooperation in this matter. The world is watching, and the spotlight is very bright. Your move, Cox (Morrissey).

If the defense is so sure that Dever lied then why didn't the defense prove she was actually there and not already left and gone home, before KR's Lexus was brought into the garage? And actually, why didn't they do all this at the first trial?

 

[keek]

Yes I agree but I think we do differ greatly on who will be incriminated.

Oh yes, the majority def does as you see! IMO

 

[shotgun09]

So, for her to get on the Brady list, who decides? Is it her boss, the commissioner? Or is it the DA? Or both? Who gets the final say?

From what I have read, it appears to be both the Commish and the DA must agree to put Dever on the Brady List. Jackson just spear-headed the movement, because ultimately it is " We The People" aka "The Jury" have the final say. The jurors spoke loud and clear after the trial, that they did NOT believe Dever at all.

I also believe that KD is on a "list" already, scattered amongst all attorneys in MA. It doesn't have to be official to be understood. AJ was giving fair warning, IMO. These big dogs best move to make it right, or the system fails. And the world is watching...

MOO

 

[SteveS]

So, for her to get on the Brady list, who decides? Is it her boss, the commissioner? Or is it the DA? Or both? Who gets the final say?

From what I can find online, there is no "Brady List Clearing House" that exists, and it's uncertain whether there's actually any such formal list at all kept by LE organizations. But they do have to know issues that exist with their own LE people who may be called to testify, because the state is always compelled to disclose those lack-of-credibility issues to the defense. So they all keep records.

However, for practical purposes, her inclusion as a non-credible ["Brady List"] witness (and why) has already been decided and set in stone by Devers herself. She swore under oath that she made things up, in her mind, and testified to them to the FBI. In the trial, it was left for the jury to decide (because that's what juries do) what to make of her changing testimony and whether she was simply lying or not. But there's no way around the fact that SHE MADE UP A FALSE STORY (either here, or there) and SWORE UNDER OATH to having done so. Even in the most innocent explanation, she has a history of imagining things, making them up, and going to LE and swearing they are true.

The jury - from both the verdict and from what they have shared since the trial - basically believed the false story was the one she told in court. Several pointed to her as a KEY witness in them understanding better what had happened.

So BPD and DAs would both be taking note, and undoubtedly others as well (such as defense attorneys, especially those in cases where she has been or will be a witness).

Alan Jackson's very public letter served to make sure that her supervisors, and any prosecutor who would ever want to use her as a witness, now has to reveal to the defense that she makes things up (either in her mind, or in a trial), and she herself has sworn under oath that she does that. If they don't share the info, now it's a blatant violation of constitutional rights of a defendant. And they can't claim they weren't aware.

BOTTOM LINE. Devers really can't testify again in court, ever, because you can't trust her memory. Don't trust what she says and thinks. She says so. She swears to it, in fact.

EDITED TO ADD. Here's some more info that is helpful. Apparently there is a formal Brady list for both Suffolk County (Boston) as well as Norfolk County (Canton) and they are accessible as public record, although such a list is not required by law. I found a MA atty who speaks to the question and answers lots of the questions we are wondering. What is the Brady List? - Law Office of William J. Barabino

 

[Forest_Wood]

From what I have read, it appears to be both the Commish and the DA must agree to put Dever on the Brady List. Jackson just spear-headed the movement, because ultimately it is " We The People" aka "The Jury" have the final say. The jurors spoke loud and clear after the trial, that they did NOT believe Dever at all.

I also believe that KD is on a "list" already, scattered amongst all attorneys in MA. It doesn't have to be official to be understood. AJ was giving fair warning, IMO. These big dogs best move to make it right, or the system fails. And the world is watching...

MOO

Thank you.
AJ sent the letter to 3 people:
Cox, and cc'd it to the the Superintendent in Chief at the BPD, (wondering is that person higher than the Commissioner or lower), as well as to Dever.
He didn't copy it to the DA.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

 

[Forest_Wood]

From what I can find online, there is no "Brady List Clearing House" that exists, and it's uncertain whether there's actually any such formal list at all kept by LE organizations. But they do have to know issues that exist with their own LE people who may be called to testify, because the state is always compelled to disclose those lack-of-credibility issues to the defense. So they all keep records.

However, for practical purposes, her inclusion as a non-credible ["Brady List"] witness (and why) has already been decided and set in stone by Devers herself. She swore under oath that she made things up, in her mind, and testified to them to the FBI. In the trial, it was left for the jury to decide (because that's what juries do) what to make of her changing testimony and whether she was simply lying or not. But there's no way around the fact that SHE MADE UP A FALSE STORY (either here, or there) and SWORE UNDER OATH to having done so. Even in the most innocent explanation, she has a history of imagining things, making them up, and going to LE and swearing they are true.

The jury - from both the verdict and from what they have shared since the trial - basically believed the false story was the one she told in court. Several pointed to her as a KEY witness in them understanding better what had happened.

So BPD and DAs would both be taking note, and undoubtedly others as well (such as defense attorneys, especially those in cases where she has been or will be a witness).

Alan Jackson's very public letter served to make sure that her supervisors, and any prosecutor who would ever want to use her as a witness, now has to reveal to the defense that she makes things up (either in her mind, or in a trial), and she herself has sworn under oath that she does that. If they don't share the info, now it's a blatant violation of constitutional rights of a defendant. And they can't claim they weren't aware.

BOTTOM LINE. Devers really can't testify again in court, ever, because you can't trust her memory. Don't trust what she says and thinks. She says so. She swears to it, in fact.

Excellent explanation, thank you!
Dever tried to embarrass and mess with Alan Jackson and she should have thought twice about that.
I wonder if any police witness ever, has used this false memory testimony before!
MOO

 

[waldojabba]

I am sure someone has already said this but I have been out and about, otherwise engaged since this letter dropped ...

IF the Commish sticks by his statement which was basically - "I did not know that person was connected to the KR case" - which I believe to be 100% untrue

Devers, who is already ruined and publicly shamed on all platforms - then gets totally run over by a fleet of buses by the BPD - and she gets put on the Brady list imo - so more sensational press with her name plastered everywhere

Then its her move
- If she goes along with the Commish and recants her story and she is negotiating a settlement currently - this ups the stakes / remember we also believe that her fiance is BPD /maybe other LE in family tree not sure - so the "compensation " / settlement could take many forms
-She has shown impulsivity and emotional imaturity so my bet Aj is hoping for her to go rogue and spill the beans because of her volatility and how she has been betrayed
-Or - somehwere in those FBI reports that we have not seen, there is someone who corraborates Devers story about the commish -or another source has knowledge of what was said at the meeting - then perhaps AJ is settlng up the biggest fish - the Commish

Seems like a no win situation for BPD - but with so much more to come

JMO

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I am sure someone has already said this but I have been out and about, otherwise engaged since this letter dropped ...

IF the Commish sticks by his statement which was basically - "I did not know that person was connected to the KR case" - which I believe to be 100% untrue

Devers, who is already ruined and publicly shamed on all platforms - then gets totally run over by a fleet of buses by the BPD - and she gets put on the Brady list imo - so more sensational press with her name plastered everywhere

Then its her move
- If she goes along with the Commish and recants her story and she is negotiating a settlement currently - this ups the stakes / remember we also believe that her fiance is BPD /maybe other LE in family tree not sure - so the "compensation " / settlement could take many forms
-She has shown impulsivity and emotional imaturity so my bet Aj is hoping for her to go rogue and spill the beans because of her volatility and how she has been betrayed
-Or - somehwere in those FBI reports that we have not seen, there is someone who corraborates Devers story about the commish -or another source has knowledge of what was said at the meeting - then perhaps AJ is settlng up the biggest fish - the Commish

Seems like a no win situation for BPD - but with so much more to come

JMO

One issue that will keep her from going rogue is that her boyfriend is a Boston cop. The walls are closing in on her from every angle.

 

[sapphire blue]

If the defense is so sure that Dever lied then why didn't the defense prove she was actually there and not already left and gone home, before KR's Lexus was brought into the garage? And actually, why didn't they do all this at the first trial?

The defence didn’t need to prove she was there. Her own words told on her. As did her belligerent behaviour on the stand.

 

[sunshineray]

The defence didn’t need to prove she was there. Her own words told on her. As did her belligerent behaviour on the stand.

Why did the defense never put her on the stand in the first trial? Probably, I'm assuming, because the log showed she had left the station well before the Lexus ever got towed there and the FBI seemed to be satisfied with her explanation that she'd been mistaken? AJMO

 

[Florida_marlin]

This is one of the most amazing cases I have followed. The after case is as intriguing as the KR case. In all of this I’m asking, “Who is seeking justice for JOK”? You know, the victim in this case.

JOK family is in my opinion following a path does not seek any justice for JOK, it just continues to provide cover for the real perps. The Canton Police? Nope. The State police? Nope. The Boston Police, it’s out of their jurisdiction but they have the pull if they wanted to raise hell to seek justice. Nope. The CW prosecution of TB? Nothing about seeking justice for JOK.

Right now, as far as I can see, the KR team is the only ones working to unravel the case and finally bring justice.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

This is one of the most amazing cases I have followed. The after case is as intriguing as the KR case. In all of this I’m asking, “Who is seeking justice for JOK”? You know, the victim in this case.

JOK family is in my opinion following a path does not seek any justice for JOK, it just continues to provide cover for the real perps. The Canton Police? Nope. The State police? Nope. The Boston Police, it’s out of their jurisdiction but they have the pull if they wanted to raise hell to seek justice. Nope. The CW prosecution of TB? Nothing about seeking justice for JOK.

Right now, as far as I can see, the KR team is the only ones working to unravel the case and finally bring justice.

Everything you’ve said is true. I don’t know what it will take for his family to see the light. It will be interesting to see what fallout there is this week after Turtleboy’s request for the 4,000+ pages came up blank, literally. There are so many people hiding important information.

 

[sapphire blue]

Why did the defense never put her on the stand in the first trial? Probably, I'm assuming, because the log showed she had left the station well before the Lexus ever got towed there and the FBI seemed to be satisfied with her explanation that she'd been mistaken? AJMO

You can assume whatever you choose to assume. Fact is Dever changed her story from the first trial to the second one, her testimony is unreliable by her own admission.