MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Inthedetails]

Would the posing and not burying reflect on his being local or a stranger? Would he be more inclined to bury if he was not from the area? Does he want to "decorate" a familiar place by the staging? If this is his "backyard" he is beyond cavalier...and someone has to know it was him.

We have to be careful about the word "posing" as it hasn't been released if that really is the case. The posing is guesswork by some of us, not fact.

The question I'm wondering. Does the crime scene fit more with a stranger (stranger as in not someone targeting Vanessa because she is a Vanessa but attacking Vanessa because she matches his preference - a woman, young, brunette, for example) or does the crime scene fit more for someone who did indeed target her specifically.

Or, as you add, does it tell us local vs. not-local?

I know we can't know precisely based on info we have...just discussing as we await more info.

But, to be fair, the "posing" is not for sure....


jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Don't see why he needs to be anti-social or awkward. I believe the term is sociopath when you just don't really care about other people. But you can still be charming and friendly is its in your best interest. Many successful business people have this to a degree. Firing/laying off people, unrealistic expectations, screwing over customers and employees, all to put a little more money in their pockets. Point is he could come across as completely normal.

I am leaning toward socially awkward and the crime scene was to say, "Look what I did."

It could be years of frustration of not fitting in (for whatever reason, I do not know), that resulted in this act.

This particular crime does not seem like one done by someone who masks a devious side by being charming. jmo

IDK. Again, speculating.

jmo

 

[ThinkHard]

We have to be careful about the word "posing" as it hasn't been released if that really is the case. The posing is guesswork by some of us, not fact.

The question I'm wondering. Does the crime scene fit more with a stranger (stranger as in not someone targeting Vanessa because she is a Vanessa but attacking Vanessa because she matches his preference - a woman, young, brunette, for example) or does the crime scene fit more for someone who did indeed target her specifically.

Or, as you add, does it tell us local vs. not-local?

I know we can't know precisely based on info we have...just discussing as we await more info.

But, to be fair, the "posing" is not for sure....


jmo

In my opinion, being familiar with the area, I think what we know of the crime scene, it points more to someone that was, in some capacity, specifically targeted her, and one carried about by someone very familiar with the area.

I don't think the location points to someone who would lurk there for hours just hoping someone running alone would pass. And for that reason I believe who ever killed her knew she would specifically be running at that time.

 

[ThinkHard]

I am leaning toward socially awkward and the crime scene was to say, "Look what I did."

It could be years of frustration of not fitting in (for whatever reason, I do not know), that resulted in this act.

This particular crime does not seem like one done by someone who masks a devious side by being charming. jmo

IDK. Again, speculating.

jmo

Not knowing specific about her burns it's of course very difficult to determine there intention.

However I don't get the feeling they were some kind of bragging right by the perp. If we knew she was "posed" then perhaps that would strengthen that possibility.

But we really don't know that. For all we know she could have been far more casually disposed of, indicating someone who wanted to flee this crime quickly, rather then someone who wanted to relish in it.

I see a much stronger possibility is that this persona knew her and the murder was done accidently in a state of rage....in which case I see the burns more as remorse or not being able to stand what he did, or a futile attempt to cover DNA by someone who clearly wasn't planning a crime. .... Again this is just what feels more likely in my mind.

 

[Camerabug]

Actually, according to the FBI stats most bodies are left "as is"... 43.8%. The rest are small percentages of bodies left different ways. I was surprised to read that.
Page 39 gives that pathway.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/serialmurder-pathwaysforinvestigations.pdf/view

So are you thinking this is a serial killer, then? That is the manual your statistics come from. Not arguing, just asking.

 

[Camerabug]

I agree. I don't see the antisocial awkward loner thing either. It feels more like a stereotype to me, and granted a stereotype for a reason....but most sociopaths aren't socially awkward as you have said. They are actually far more likely to be quite gregarious. While they may not empathize with others, they are also keenly aware of social question and social order and know very well how to make themselves normal, even popular.

other conditions can affect people social skills or even ability to recognize social cues and these are the people the world looks at suspiciously, simply because they aren't "playing by the rules". Some of these people might also lack empathy, but it's more likely they lack expressive empathy rather then lacking internal empathy.

Sociopaths on the other hand lack internal empathy but are very very good at faking expressive empathy. They also tend to be incredibley bright.

The basic reason I am thinking awkward is because of the fire setting piece. And I hasten to add that is speculation on my part based on what I see in my scenario. JMO.

also why I think this is someone young and an individual who plays video games. Basically I think the fire speaks to extreme frustration and anger-burning rage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

 

[jbbb]

Not knowing specific about her burns it's of course very difficult to determine there intention.

However I don't get the feeling they were some kind of bragging right by the perp. If we knew she was "posed" then perhaps that would strengthen that possibility.

But we really don't know that. For all we know she could have been far more casually disposed of, indicating someone who wanted to flee this crime quickly, rather then someone who wanted to relish in it.

I see a much stronger possibility is that this persona knew her and the murder was done accidently in a state of rage....in which case I see the burns more as remorse or not being able to stand what he did, or a futile attempt to cover DNA by someone who clearly wasn't planning a crime. .... Again this is just what feels more likely in my mind.

I agree, TH. I think this doesn't have some of the details that indicate this person had a single intent or that it was well planned. I think rage of someone she knew seems much more plausible, otherwise, i this size of community, he was setting himself up. A little burned, doesn't add up to the kind of feeling I get from the KV crime.
On another note, one of the pieces of info that supports a local, known poi, is the number of tips that were called in. These tips didn't in my opinion, come in from one afternoon of activity by a stranger. That would mean 1/3 of the people in Princeton were out and about on a Sunday afternoon in just the right place to see someone or their vehicle, doing something worth calling in about. On a Sunday afternoon, most people I know are napping or at home bbqing with family or friends. Not all of course, but that number tells me that people may have seen something on previous occasions, that did not raise suspicions, but that would be valuable information if someone was murdered. One of the things people could have seen was 2 people being seen together or meeting up. When one of them turns up dead, people would definitely report who the other person was. That might explain how the perp was leaving enough evidence over a period of time to generate 1000 tips.

 

[ThinkHard]

The basic reason I am thinking awkward is because of the fire setting piece. And I hasten to add that is speculation on my part based on what I see in my scenario. JMO.

also why I think this is someone young and an individual who plays video games. Basically I think the fire speaks to extreme frustration and anger-burning rage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

Certainly it is one possibility for burning, but I think many other reasons for burning could be at play as well beyond or even at the exclusion of a fascination with fire.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The basic reason I am thinking awkward is because of the fire setting piece. And I hasten to add that is speculation on my part based on what I see in my scenario. JMO.

also why I think this is someone young and an individual who plays video games. Basically I think the fire speaks to extreme frustration and anger-burning rage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

Agree completely.
I think he saw her as beautiful and unattainable, so he captured and controlled her.
Perhaps she rebuffed him in his mind at some point, in casual passing.
Again, I think he is in the neighborhood/vicinity, and has been carefully stalking her.

 

[Michigan]

True, and just to reiterate, LE has only said it was a male,a timeline of 1 pm to 3 pm, and that they are asking people that may have seen a car in the area, to call them.
Everything else is just speculation.

Thank you Rocky1 for this reminder.

I have never understood how they know it was a male unless they did find semen. What are other ways they could definitively know that?

I also noted that they identified her very quickly, if not immediately after the body was found. Does this point to the fact that the burns weren't extensive and they could see her face or identifying characteristics on her body like a tattoo (if she had one)? They are usually uber cautious when identifying bodies so to me to says that she was fairly intact - unless they could identify her from the shoe that was found.

Regarding the large number of tips - I know that all attendees of the funeral that happened on the date of the murder were urged to contact LE, even if they had seen nothing. Anyone on that road at that time was supposed to call. My mother said there were hundreds at the funeral so surely this contributed some of the tips.

All MOO

 

[Michigan]

Also obviously they could determine sex of the perp from DNA. But I've always suspected it was destroyed by the fire. So what I meant was, is there another way to determine it was a male if there was no dna present?

 

[Inthedetails]

Thank you Rocky1 for this reminder.

I have never understood how they know it was a male unless they did find semen. What are other ways they could definitively know that?

I also noted that they identified her very quickly, if not immediately after the body was found. Does this point to the fact that the burns weren't extensive and they could see her face or identifying characteristics on her body like a tattoo (if she had one)? They are usually uber cautious when identifying bodies so to me to says that she was fairly intact - unless they could identify her from the shoe that was found.

Regarding the large number of tips - I know that all attendees of the funeral that happened on the date of the murder were urged to contact LE, even if they had seen nothing. Anyone on that road at that time was supposed to call. My mother said there were hundreds at the funeral so surely this contributed some of the tips.

All MOO

BBM

I think the DNA was from semen, but if they got DNA from under her fingernails or elsewhere, that could also be used to determine gender of the perp. DNA definitely tells you gender.

jmo

 

[Michigan]

"I think the DNA was from semen, but if they got DNA from under her fingernails or elsewhere, that could also be used to determine gender of the perp. DNA definitely tells you gender."

Do you think they have dna? My gut says no because they have not made a match. Also because they haven't been definitive that it is not connected to the NY case (which I think is highly unlikely). But if they had DNA I think they would just come out and say the cases are not related. There is so much fear about this being a serial killer, I would think police would rule that out if they could.

All MOO

jmo

 

[Steleheart]

"I think the DNA was from semen, but if they got DNA from under her fingernails or elsewhere, that could also be used to determine gender of the perp. DNA definitely tells you gender."

Do you think they have dna? My gut says no because they have not made a match. Also because they haven't been definitive that it is not connected to the NY case (which I think is highly unlikely). But if they had DNA I think they would just come out and say the cases are not related. There is so much fear about this being a serial killer, I would think police would rule that out if they could.

All MOO

jmo

The only way they would know it was a male is from DNA.

The only way they would know that HE had cuts and bruises would not be from semen but from fingernail and defensive injuries.

The only way they would be looking for a vehicle is from tracks at the path she was found on.

They cannot make a match from DNA without a sample to match it to.

Not having a match does not mean there is no DNA left there.

LE has said they have no connection to Karina;'
"Early said Monday there was “nothing at this point” to connect Marcotte’s killing to last week’s murder of Karina Vetrano, who was killed while jogging last Tuesday near her home in Queens, N.Y."
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...e-continues/W4RX4k7MOxCTEVYRUBFQSN/story.html


JMO

 

[jbbb]

"I think the DNA was from semen, but if they got DNA from under her fingernails or elsewhere, that could also be used to determine gender of the perp. DNA definitely tells you gender."

Do you think they have dna? My gut says no because they have not made a match. Also because they haven't been definitive that it is not connected to the NY case (which I think is highly unlikely). But if they had DNA I think they would just come out and say the cases are not related. There is so much fear about this being a serial killer, I would think police would rule that out if they could.

All MOO

jmo

We do not know that the police don't have a match. As far as I know they have never indicated they don't have a match.

 

[DatelineFan]

The only way they would know it was a male is from DNA.

The only way they would know that HE had cuts and bruises would not be from semen but from fingernail and defensive injuries.

The only way they would be looking for a vehicle is from tracks at the path she was found on.

They cannot make a match from DNA without a sample to match it to.

Not having a match does not mean there is no DNA left there.

JMO

I think witness reports could have told them about a vehicle. There might be tracks, too. I get the feeling that LE is looking for more witnesses to verify someone's account of a vehicle that day.



Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

 

[Michigan]

The only way they would know it was a male is from DNA.

The only way they would know that HE had cuts and bruises would not be from semen but from fingernail and defensive injuries.

The only way they would be looking for a vehicle is from tracks at the path she was found on.

They cannot make a match from DNA without a sample to match it to.

Not having a match does not mean there is no DNA left there.

JMO

Of course I understand that they can have DNA without a match. I'm just saying that there have been some things (like not ruling out a connection to the NY case) that make me wonder whether they do have DNA.

I'm also wondering if they don't have DNA if there are other ways to determine that a male was involved. Could there be vaginal injuries for example which would lead them to determine a male was involved even if there was no DNA?

Respectfully, I don't think we can be so definitive to say the only way they can know about a car is from tracks. Perhaps they have an eye witness who saw her with a car. Perhaps an accelerant was used that comes from a car (wild guessing, probably not true). We don't know for sure how they know about a car being involved.

All JMO

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you Rocky1 for this reminder.

I have never understood how they know it was a male unless they did find semen. What are other ways they could definitively know that?

I also noted that they identified her very quickly, if not immediately after the body was found. Does this point to the fact that the burns weren't extensive and they could see her face or identifying characteristics on her body like a tattoo (if she had one)? They are usually uber cautious when identifying bodies so to me to says that she was fairly intact - unless they could identify her from the shoe that was found.

Regarding the large number of tips - I know that all attendees of the funeral that happened on the date of the murder were urged to contact LE, even if they had seen nothing. Anyone on that road at that time was supposed to call. My mother said there were hundreds at the funeral so surely this contributed some of the tips.

All MOO

Any form of DNA from hair, to skin cells, to sweat, etc would allow LE to determine if the perp was male or female. That is something DNA can definetly tell you. Unless of course they are transgender

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you Rocky1 for this reminder.

I have never understood how they know it was a male unless they did find semen. What are other ways they could definitively know that?

I also noted that they identified her very quickly, if not immediately after the body was found. Does this point to the fact that the burns weren't extensive and they could see her face or identifying characteristics on her body like a tattoo (if she had one)? They are usually uber cautious when identifying bodies so to me to says that she was fairly intact - unless they could identify her from the shoe that was found.

Regarding the large number of tips - I know that all attendees of the funeral that happened on the date of the murder were urged to contact LE, even if they had seen nothing. Anyone on that road at that time was supposed to call. My mother said there were hundreds at the funeral so surely this contributed some of the tips.

All MOO

Also the reason she was identified so quickly was because a 27 year old girl had gone missing but inaplace thos stuff never happens, roughly 5 hours later a female body is discovered in the woods...I think it was blatantly obvious to LE who that body was when they found it.

 

[ThinkHard]

Also obviously they could determine sex of the perp from DNA. But I've always suspected it was destroyed by the fire. So what I meant was, is there another way to determine it was a male if there was no dna present?

If they know the perp was scratched, then my guess is his skin cells were under her fingernails. Which seems like a pretty good indication that the fire did not in fact destroy that kind of DNA evidence.