MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Rocky1]

I really do not believe there was confusion btw the store and the mountain barn.

That really doesn't add up to me at all. While I know people HERE in this thread have mixed them up...locals and especially the police certainly would not have!

Additionally she was supposedly at the store around 12. The ping was at 2:25 from the Mnt Barn.

She also supposedly went to the store before setting out on her run.

To me this says she went somewhere and said it was the store sometime around noon....then came home....then set out again....then the ping came.

So I really really don't see how they would have confused those two things....I think her family would know the difference btw her taking the car on an errand before her run and the ping that came on her run....and I think locals and local LE know the difference btw the market and the Mnt barn.

The State Police were not local. They were brought in from 3 different barracks. Holden, (C6) Sturbridge,(C5A) and Leominster (C4) With so many cops and so much confusion, I can see that mistake happening rather easily.
Who said she was going to the store at 12? I know there was a lot of discussion about that here, but now the thinking is that she never was there in the first place. Where did the 12 Oclock come from? I'd like the link.

 

[Rocky1]

Also regarding the matted grass....if one SUV drives over tall grass that grass is not going to stay permenantky matted....it's going to pop back up again after the wheels go over it.....only if cars repeatedly drive on it, or the car sits in the same spot for a period of time will the grass under those wheels stay matted down.

The point is perhaps he did drive down there....but just driven over the grass early on in the path and perhaps deeper in there is evidence of a vehicle sitting for longer. Perhaps these marking are even why they are certain the dark SUV sightings were involved.

Maybe more intense analysis of this area is why they could be certain an SUV had been down there...maybe they leave different tracks or have different wheels...plus the sightings...just a thought.

A 5,000 lb SUV is going to have a 1250lb roller under each wheel. There is no way that 2 ft tall grass is going to spring back even close, let alone so perfect that nobody notices, especially when that would have been the very first thing that they looked for.
Are you saying that LE is going to be able to not tell that a vehicle has driven down a path the first day, but after 3 months, after the rain storms, and leaves dropping, they will?
The sightings? I don't remember LE ever saying once that an SUV was parked IN the path. The report I remember was "along BSR" Did I miss that?

 

[Kickoff61]

The only reports I know of is of a Dark SUV parked along BSR.

 

[Rocky1]

But why would she have been on the path in the first place?

I don't think she was on the path.
I think he saw her leaving her Moms house, and although we disagree on this, rode past her on a bike, made the decision to ambush her right then,(although he thought about it before from seeing her on that road) carried his bike in the path to not leave tracks and hid that out of sight, ran back out of the woods and into the gully behind the guardrail, where he could watch not only her approaching, but for cars coming as well, and when she walked by the guardrail heading north, he was tucked down so she couldn't see him, he took one last look for cars, and came up out of the gully behind her, incapacitated her and dragged her into the path. Total surprise and she never saw him.
Maybe he didn't even take the bike in the path. Maybe that was in the gully too. No cars would have seen it there.

 

[Kickoff61]

This is the type of path that even people in the area who did not go walking a lot around the neighborhood, may not be familiar with. It seems like the person may have spent time outdoors regularly to know of it and if the person did a lot of walking, running or biking, may have also seen her regularly on her runs too.

 

[Kickoff61]

I don't think she was on the path.
I think he saw her leaving her Moms house, and although we disagree on this, rode past her on a bike, made the decision to ambush her right then,(although he thought about it before from seeing her on that road) carried his bike in the path to not leave tracks and hid that out of sight, ran back out of the woods and into the gully behind the guardrail, where he could watch not only her approaching, but for cars coming as well, and when she walked by the guardrail heading north, he was tucked down so she couldn't see him, he took one last look for cars, and came up out of the gully behind her, incapacitated her and dragged her into the path. Total surprise and she never saw him.
Maybe he didn't even take the bike in the path. Maybe that was in the gully too. No cars would have seen it there.

Although LE says there was a struggle, enough to leave injuries on him. That would mean they would have been struggling right there on the road side on the path, with your theory. Correct?

 

[Rocky1]

This is the type of path that even people in the area who did not go walking a lot around the neighborhood, may not be familiar with. It seems like the person may have spent time outdoors regularly to know of it and if the person did a lot of walking, running or biking, may have also seen her regularly on her runs too.

To know a path is there, in the summer with the foliage, you have to wait till you are 90 degrees to it from the road then look straight in to know it is a path. And that was after LE had been in and out of there. I can imagine it was tougher before that.
LE would have known there is no hiking trail, or a pond to fish, or a house there, so I know I am repeating myself, but, if they rode past an SUV that day, my bets are they would have stopped and ran the plate. I am certainly not knocking Princeton PD in any way, but most small town police in general have more time on their hands than cities, so they are looking for anything to do.
I'm not saying they rode down that road at that time, and I am not saying that there wasn't an SUV spotted, what I am saying is, If this guy is local enough to know that path, then he's smart enough to know that small town cops would check his SUV out, if he parked it there.
So either it wasn't his, or, it wasn't there for long, or he took one big stupid chance.

 

[Kickoff61]

Could he have known her enough only from being outdoors while she is on her runs, that he was actually chatting with her and claimed to want to show her something on the path?

It is hard to fathom a vehicle parked for a long time at the spot across from the driveway or a lengthy struggle at the road side with traffic.

 

[Kickoff61]

To know a path is there, in the summer with the foliage, you have to wait till you are 90 degrees to it from the road then look straight in to know it is a path. And that was after LE had been in and out of there. I can imagine it was tougher before that.
LE would have known there is no hiking trail, or a pond to fish, or a house there, so I know I am repeating myself, but, if they rode past an SUV that day, my bets are they would have stopped and ran the plate. I am certainly not knocking Princeton PD in any way, but most small town police in general have more time on their hands than cities, so they are looking for anything to do.
I'm not saying they rode down that road at that time, and I am not saying that there wasn't an SUV spotted, what I am saying is, If this guy is local enough to know that path, then he's smart enough to know that small town cops would check his SUV out, if he parked it there.
So either it wasn't his, or, it wasn't there for long, or he took one big stupid chance.

I see what you are saying. I think if it was his from the area and he did bring vehicle to that exact location on BSR, then it was not there for long. That has been what I have been thinking more so since I saw the google map of it all.

 

[Kickoff61]

Seeing the photos and coverage of that path shows me this person knew that path, had probably been on that path, very familiar with it. The fact it is very hidden and not a common walking path, this person in my opinion, had to spend a lot of time outdoors, or on that road in some way regularly, walking, biking or running. I just don't see it any other way with the way that path is so hidden and overgrown that time of year too.

 

[Rocky1]

Although LE says there was a struggle, enough to leave injuries on him. That would mean they would have been struggling right there on the road side on the path, with your theory. Correct?

JMO but I think he hit her in the head and incapacitated her along the road at the path entrance. No screaming, no delay in dragging her in the path.
And also JMO, and I don't want to be too graphic, but, I think the fight came when he started to strangle her,and I know COD wasn't released so maybe he didn't so I will be general. Sexual sadists (which I think he is) love inflicting pain, Sometimes they pick athletic types because they love the fight and the overpowering. So if he did strangled her, He may have, then brought her back, then did it again. If anyone is being strangled, they will fight like they never have before once they are fighting for oxygen. If I was to guess, and "if" she was strangled, I think that's when she fought the most.

 

[Kickoff61]

JMO but I think he hit her in the head and incapacitated her along the road at the path entrance. No screaming, no delay in dragging her in the path.
And also JMO, and I don't want to be too graphic, but, I think the fight came when he started to strangle her,and I know COD wasn't released so maybe he didn't so I will be general. Sexual sadists (which I think he is) love inflicting pain, Sometimes they pick athletic types because they love the fight and the overpowering. So if he did strangled her, He may have, then brought her back, then did it again. If anyone is being strangled, they will fight like they never have before once they are fighting for oxygen. If I was to guess, and "if" she was strangled, I think that's when she fought the most.

You are saying knocked her out, then she came to? Then fought after that?

 

[Kickoff61]

I also think it is important to start with the basics. She is a runner. She is attacked on a regular running route that she ran. So that leaves it optional for someone who saw her regularly by location on the route or someone who had something in common with her such as exercising on the road regularly also. That is how all this could have started if he obsessed with her, came across her, talked with her, saw her, etc. And it explains why he would be outside and know of that path, if he exercised on that road as well.

 

[Kickoff61]

It could all come down to her running that route. Even prior to it happening, is what I am saying.

 

[Kickoff61]

Narrowing down a profile, someone who likes the outdoors, may very well exercise on those very roads, knows the path, knows all about the specific location (that others may not even notice) , knows about fires, quick, smart, calculating, someone least suspected, not obvious rebellion. etc Please feel free to add.

 

[Rocky1]

Seeing the photos and coverage of that path shows me this person knew that path, had probably been on that path, very familiar with it. The fact it is very hidden and not a common walking path, this person in my opinion, had to spend a lot of time outdoors, or on that road in some way regularly, walking, biking or running. I just don't see it any other way with the way that path is so hidden and overgrown that time of year too.

When you look on Google at the map, check the date, it may say the image is from 2011, so add 5 plus years of foliage to that image.

 

[Rocky1]

You are saying knocked her out, then she came to? Then fought after that?

Yes. That's what I am saying.

 

[Kickoff61]

When you look on Google at the map, check the date, it may say the image is from 2011, so add 5 plus years of foliage to that image.

You are right. That makes it even more unbelievable. It increases my thoughts, this person spent time on those roads to know that specific path location. Absolutely. and I don't mean time driving by in vehicles.

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes. That's what I am saying.

Ok I see what you mean.

 

[Kickoff61]

A long time resident who exercised regularly on those roads would know the area more than others like the back of their hand. That factor would also increase their brazen actions of confidence in doing this there that 'afternoon'. and ...Could very well be the connection to her exercising on those same roads.