MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[ThinkHard]

Do we know if anyone from town with mutual friends could somehow let them know of the forum In case they want to help? Do we know I feel she or her family went to church each Sunday?also one idea since she hasn't crohns could she have a doctor she comes to town on weekends to treat her? A family doctor who could work weekends. Or some other health issue she has to come home for doctor wise that's been kept quiet? I agree definitely not happenstance also my cab driver theory isn't what I think is most likely but just what crossed my mind when I hadn't my creepy driver. Also since she's a google exec how hard would it be for most to reach that in the time frame pf her new job?maybe it just sounds higher up but it seems that would take years

I believe she was a mananger not a high powered google executive. Meaning she may have had a small team reporting to her at most. Or it could just be used in the Ames she managed customer accounts, not people.

Regarding doctors in Worcester....that can be incredibly frustrating and with anything complicated you are MUCH better off in Boston. We have lots of medical facilities but I've had horrible experience again and again...Boston has actually helped me where Worcester failed. So there is that...plus she was living and working in NYC....so her insurance would have been covering her primarily in NY not MA....so considering NYC has great medical care, it's where she was living, and its the state her insurance would cover ... my guess is it's unlikely she came home for those reasons but I couldn't gen wrong of course.

 

[Kickoff61]

Someone pointed out the smell of smoke could be from him burning her clothes and not neccasrily burning her....meaning you could have burned specific areas on her with some kind of lighter or torch, and then in a pile set her clothes on fire in the ground with some sticks and leaves to blend the type of ash left.

I don't know this is what happened...but someone else mentioned it and I think it's a valid possibility.

I understand. Yes. However, we only know for fact from reports that parts of her body were burned. We don't factually know yet if the clothes were burned.

 

[Kickoff61]

If the guy was on foot and needed to pass by a lot of homes without being seen to get home would he either have to be sneaky and maybe been seen or to have known the owners and had some valid excuse to be on their property? Like would any of the big close homes maybe hire gardeners or anything and anyone that's woukd be burning stuff like burning fallen stuff like a gardener type thing or landscaper? Knowing that the owner would be suspected more than them unless they have a background. As far as the question about bonds I feel there would be some jail records showing who's in jail and who's out on bond? Not sure though but this person could like you said have family money and maybe that has helped them stay free, maybe the family owns many cars. How many homes near own more than two cars would you say? Obviously I would assume this car is being parked inside or out of sight and maybe has some excuse keeping it from not being used so that the family doesn't suspect and maybe they're not even around much cause they're in vacation and don't know he's home from school or something

If the person was in area on foot , walking or running and did it in that location. That is where the next theory comes into play if he did not expect to get those wounds, then suddenly decided to get rid of DNA upon realizing how much was left behind and being from the area, could easily go through trees, get vehicle to return unnoticed with wounds driving instead of walking back, do the fire, retrieve items (that he didn't want to carry on the street), etc. It is just one of many theories, but no more risky than keeping his car there throughout from start to finish. Especially with a driveway very close by.

 

[Kickoff61]

Actually thinking on that, other runners in the area could have seen her running or met her by running at times on the weekends that she did as well, in addition to her running by someone's house.

 

[Kickoff61]

Can locals get more locals in here? That could really help.

 

[Kickoff61]

And does anyone know how many homes between the area she was found and her home and maybe in a certain radius are vacation rentals? If the person was by chance an ex local who lives somewhere else and came back to do this that is. Or someone who saw her the night before or week before when scouting for a victim and planned it some. Maybe even a month if they stayed longer.

Looking at the google map of BSR and the area, the path, etc...made a big difference with speculation of this by seeing it. When not familiar with the area.

 

[ThinkHard]

I was just trying to find what station in NYC the bus would have brought her to..but haven't yet found a bus that leaves at 4:30 on a Sunday from Worcester yet. I have found several Sunday 3:50 departures.

Also I noticed something that surprised me....even though by care NYC is 3-3.5 hours...apparently by bus it's more like 4-5.

Buses always seemed creepy to me so I always took the train home when I lived in NYC so I assumed the buses were more equivalent to car time. But it turns out the bus isn't a pretty lengthy trip.

 

[ThinkHard]

True. Do you know who smelled the smoke and how many houses close to it there are or areas to burn something without someone seeing. Even a campground if there are any.

The neighbor who owns the property her body was found on smelled the smoke.

As far as the rest of it...im not sure I really understand the question. The houses are all spread out, it's all private property, it wasn't heavy foliage at that time.

 

[ThinkHard]

If the guy was on foot and needed to pass by a lot of homes without being seen to get home would he either have to be sneaky and maybe been seen or to have known the owners and had some valid excuse to be on their property? Like would any of the big close homes maybe hire gardeners or anything and anyone that's woukd be burning stuff like burning fallen stuff like a gardener type thing or landscaper? Knowing that the owner would be suspected more than them unless they have a background. As far as the question about bonds I feel there would be some jail records showing who's in jail and who's out on bond? Not sure though but this person could like you said have family money and maybe that has helped them stay free, maybe the family owns many cars. How many homes near own more than two cars would you say? Obviously I would assume this car is being parked inside or out of sight and maybe has some excuse keeping it from not being used so that the family doesn't suspect and maybe they're not even around much cause they're in vacation and don't know he's home from school or something

A good percentage of the houses on that road have 3 car garages. At least more then most places.

 

[Aleph]

It was reported they are doing advanced testing regarding a 'facial' from the DNA. That may be a turning point in all this, once those results come in.

Meaning they are getting an image of his face from the DNA? (Yes, this is now possible to do! I have not heard of a crime where they have actually done it , though. Technology is new and might be challenged in court. Plus it's probably expensive.)


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[Kickoff61]

Meaning they are getting an image of his face from the DNA? (Yes, this is now possible to do! I have not heard of a crime where they have actually done it , though. Technology is new and might be challenged in court. Plus it's probably expensive.)


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PRINCETON, MA (WHDH) - It has been more than three months since police found Vanessa Marcotte’s body in the woods of Princeton.
DNA found at the scene hasn’t matched anyone in any criminal database. But 7News has learned investigators are turning to new DNA technology that could literally show them the killer’s face.
“We focus on externally visible traits. So we do eye color, hair color, skin color, freckling, the shaping of the face, then also the person’s geographic ancestry or ethnic ancestry. So where their ancestors are from. Using DNA gathered at a crime scene,” said Ellen McRae Greyak, the director of the Virginia lab, Parabon.
for.
<snip.>

http://whdh.com/investigations/cher...logy-to-give-vanessa-marcottes-killer-a-face/

 

[ThinkHard]

I was just trying to be thorough and explore all angles...so decided to look into any possible overlaps with this and other local crimes.

The only two I can think of that are fairly local and similar would be Molly Bish and Holly Piiranean.

Holly was 9, it was August 5, 1993. she was abducted on a country road near a pond in Sturbridge MA a little after noon, her body was found in a wooded area 5 miles away just over two months later.

Molly was 16, it was June 26/27, 2000. She was abducted from Warren MA from her lifeguard post at a remote pond sometime in the morning (9-10?). Her body was found in a wooded area about 5 miles away in Palmer near a hunting club.

Now just for comparison...

Vanessa was 26, it was August 7, 2016. She was murdered on a country road in Princeton, MA btw 1-3pm. Her body was found on a wooded area.

So there are differences but I tried to look for patterns too...maybe I'm reading too much into this...but I couldn't help but notice a few things...

The dates are all around the same time, two within days of each other. June 27, August 5, August 7. The girls ages also chronologically get older; 9, 16, 26.....I know most serial killers have types but can some serial killers type age as they age?

Also the towns are similar in ways...windy wooded roads, upper middle class to affluent.

But some differences of course...the two earlier ones he abducted and took them elsewhere...leaving them where their bodies succumbed to elements before they were found...and hers was found within hours.

There is also a 7 year gap btw the summer of 1993 and 2000...and a 16 year gap btw Molly and Vanessa.

As I read more I came across this man:

https://www.janedoenomore.org/story/articles/95-1212005

He is from Waterbury CT, he comes from a wealthy family...he use to have business in Sturbridge and worked outdoors as a distributor and in roofing.

He was convicted of trying to abduct a 17 year old track star from the parking lot of a Saratoga HS in 2005...he had ties and tarps and a shovel in his van..she fought him off.

He was also convicted on abduction charges for a rape from Nov 11, 1993 which had outrun its statute.

They were looking at him for other cases, including Molly Bish. he plead guilty to the charges before him in CT and NY and the rest of the investigations seemed to miraculously go away.

As of 2005/2006 he was to serve a 12 year sentence for his NY crime and a concurrent 15 year sentence for CT crime.

Is it possible he got out early? Is it possible he moved to a new location where no one recognized him? Or went by a different name? Would he have more "leverage" coming from money?

And most importantly do you think LE would have already cross compared this guys DNA?

 

[ForensicMass]

I was just trying to be thorough and explore all angles...so decided to look into any possible overlaps with this and other local crimes.

The only two I can think of that are fairly local and similar would be Molly Bish and Holly Piiranean.

Holly was 9, it was August 5, 1993. she was abducted on a country road near a pond in Sturbridge MA a little after noon, her body was found in a wooded area 5 miles away just over two months later.

Molly was 16, it was June 26/27, 2000. She was abducted from Warren MA from her lifeguard post at a remote pond sometime in the morning (9-10?). Her body was found in a wooded area about 5 miles away in Palmer near a hunting club.

Now just for comparison...

Vanessa was 26, it was August 7, 2016. She was murdered on a country road in Princeton, MA btw 1-3pm. Her body was found on a wooded area.

So there are differences but I tried to look for patterns too...maybe I'm reading too much into this...but I couldn't help but notice a few things...

The dates are all around the same time, two within days of each other. June 27, August 5, August 7. The girls ages also chronologically get older; 9, 16, 26.....I know most serial killers have types but can some serial killers type age as they age?

Also the towns are similar in ways...windy wooded roads, upper middle class to affluent.

But some differences of course...the two earlier ones he abducted and took them elsewhere...leaving them where their bodies succumbed to elements before they were found...and hers was found within hours.

There is also a 7 year gap btw the summer of 1993 and 2000...and a 16 year gap btw Molly and Vanessa.

As I read more I came across this man:

https://www.janedoenomore.org/story/articles/95-1212005

He is from Waterbury CT, he comes from a wealthy family...he use to have business in Sturbridge and worked outdoors as a distributor and in roofing.

He was convicted of trying to abduct a 17 year old track star from the parking lot of a Saratoga HS in 2005...he had ties and tarps and a shovel in his van..she fought him off.

He was also convicted on abduction charges for a rape from Nov 11, 1993 which had outrun its statute.

They were looking at him for other cases, including Molly Bish. he plead guilty to the charges before him in CT and NY and the rest of the investigations seemed to miraculously go away.

As of 2005/2006 he was to serve a 12 year sentence for his NY crime and a concurrent 15 year sentence for CT crime.

Is it possible he got out early? Is it possible he moved to a new location where no one recognized him? Or went by a different name? Would he have more "leverage" coming from money?

And most importantly do you think LE would have already cross compared this guys DNA?

To your final question, yes, I would think they would already know if it was him whether or not he has been in/out of jail. The codis system is from my understanding set up for exactly these scenarios. The nature of this guy's previous crimes and the repetition of these crimes over an extended period would definitely earn him a place for his DNA in the database. Which by now has been checked, I would think.

 

[ThinkHard]

To your final question, yes, I would think they would already know if it was him whether or not he has been in/out of jail. The codis system is from my understanding set up for exactly these scenarios. The nature of this guy's previous crimes and the repetition of these crimes over an extended period would definitely earn him a place for his DNA in the database. Which by now has been checked, I would think.

Yes I'd hope so. There were just things that struck me, traveled for business, roofer, targeted a track runner.....Both above cases are unsolved. Couldn't help but notice that there are 26 years btw Holly and Vanessa's, and VM was 26...and the murders were 2 days apart August 5 & 7.

Just trying to look at all angles.

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes I'd hope so. There were just things that struck me, traveled for business, roofer, targeted a track runner.....Both above cases are unsolved. Couldn't help but notice that there are 26 years btw Holly and Vanessa's, and VM was 26...and the murders were 2 days apart August 5 & 7

Just trying to look at all angles.

This could very well be a serial killer, who has remained above the law, not caught.

 

[Kickoff61]

IF that is true, the person (as others in history) more than likely is least expected, has a lifestyle one would not suspect. It continues to make me think of the BTK killer, right in the community, working for the town, undetected for years.

 

[Kickoff61]

This does not appear to me to be someone inexperienced. IF the person was 'that' sloppy, the person would probably be caught now. There appears to be calculation in this, especially with cover up and it also appears it only looks sloppy, because it didn't go as planned and when the person ended up with wounds, then things were rushed from there.

 

[Rocky1]

So, we are coming up on 5 months now with no arrest.
Very few clues to go on, and 6 threads here with many great theories and thoughts. With so little to go on, anyone of these theories could very well be a possibility of what happened.
Based on how LE works:
1) Knowing that LE starts with the family, and works their way out from there, after 5 months, does everyone/anyone think that family, friends, relatives, ex boyfriends, and co workers have been checked out and illuminated?
2)Not knowing, but assuming that LE started at the crime scene, and worked their way out from there canvasing the neighborhood, does everyone/anyone think the immediate neighbors have been checked out and illuminated?
3) LE has mentioned the SUV, based on a/several tips. Does everyone/anyone think that an SUV was involved?
4) Does everyone/anyone think that LE has a solid suspect in mind?
If someone thinks the answer to question 1 and 2 is no, and 3 and 4 is yes, can you tell me why they are doing a DNA dragnet?

 

[Rocky1]

That could mean more spots down road if he was waiting for her to drive by or the person who owns it lives by and was parked at the end of his driveway waiting, why else not have footage yet have a big house unless you have cameras but disabled them and don't want the cops having the video? Is it possible for anyone to mark how many spots between the start of her route and where she was found that they could have been parked off of? Saying near makes me think not directly next to it cause that would be obvious

Those houses are set back from the road, so the cams would not take footage from the road.

 

[Rocky1]

Wouldn't there be a no burn thing up if the area could easily go up in flames? I forget the term but Oregon has it something like burn ban for no outside open fires if the weather has the area that dry and if so I bet we can find out that and then the person or persons who smelled smoke would have been concerned and especially if it smelled odd and they i feel would have been outside to smell it or near a window and then likely also saw smoke. For instance if some place near my house is burning stuff we can smell it and see smoke usually. So I now find it more suspiciois and think the kill site was somewhere else even in the back of the SUV there'd be room and he dropped her off there with enough stuff that he assumed would start the woods on fire but either it went out or she was found too quickly afte. Or he was trying to burn off DNA before at the kill site and lives near and they smelled the smoke but couldn't see any because it's hard to believe someone wouldn't be alarmed by smoke and the smell of body burning. And wouldn't they see birds circling over dead meat and wouldn't any dogs nearby bark and smell it? Maybe familial DNA could catch him so he wasn't hoping he burned all his DNA away from spots he know touched him

In Ma, people are only allowed to burn from Jan 1st, to May 1st.
Keep in mind the winds were from calm to 10 mph during that time frame, and the wind was blowing from the west, meaning most of the smoke would have gone straight up, or would have blown into the woods more.
One other thing to keep in mind, and although everyone is different, I live on a road with similar homes, spaced out, and as far as I am concerned my neighbors can do what ever they want to, so, if I smelled smoke, as long as I don't see woods on fire, or a huge plume of smoke in the sky, I'd be the last to call the police or fire dept.