MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Rocky1]

No, not trackable if powered off- gives last known location before power down only.

Where did you get that data from? that is incorrect. That phone can not only be tracked with it shut off, but can also be tracked with a dead battery.

 

[ForensicMass]

I think he did, and if that ping wasn't from her Mom trying to find her, then I am going to say that at 2:25 was the exact time he shut it off, and that's why it pinged.

I don't think you fully understand how this program works. The exact time of the "location" WAS 2:25 pm. And that is the last available self-recognized position stored in the phone and cloud before it was powered off. Then, with a second phone (her moms or aunts phone), when checking to see where VMs phone was at that moment (around 3:30 or thereabouts while looking for her), the location showed that the location reading was not current but was from 2:25pm, about an hour earlier. No more current location data existed, indicating that the phone was shut off at approximately 2:25, when more or less it was near the mountain barn. Follow me?

 

[ForensicMass]

Where did you get that data from? that is incorrect. That phone can not only be tracked with it shut off, but can also be tracked with a dead battery.

How do you think that is possible? there has to be electricity running through the device to transmit and receive signals. If no electricity, it same as trying to track a stone on the beach. You can shoot out a signal looking for a response, but it won't be received and no return response signal will be generated.

 

[ThinkHard]

Love John walsh. I think VM was "kind of known" to him. And possibly vice-versa. But I believe she was caught right after she left the driveway, within minutes. To me that points toward someone with recent immediate knowledge of her plans that day.

I understand there are questions about the accuracy of the phone "ping", especially when shut off. I do know that typically the find my iPhone is very accurate, to within tens of feet. When off this may extend to a couple hundred feet or so. BUT

Just for the sake of examination, can we suppose the killer fled the scene with her phone in his vehicle, and realized he had it or had to address it when his racing mind was tying up loose ends, as he drove past the mountain barn. When he immediately shut the phone off. In this scenario- what does his direction of exit tell us?

Looking at the map, the perp would then have been traveling south on 31, toward Holden ( The most populous of the five towns surrounding the area and therefore statistically the most likely area where a "local "killer might live. It is away from the towns of Sterling, hubbardston, Princeton and Leominster. It is also in the direction of the much larger city of Worcester, but the main way to Worcester would have been to head east on route 62. In fact. IF WE ARE ASSUMING A LOCAL, FAMILIAR WITH THE ROADS AND ROUTES, an exit past the mountain barn is MOST DIRECTLY TO HOLDEN. Each of the other towns are more easily accessed via alternative routes which would have taken the killer in directions away from Mountain Barn. Also, the escape to Worcester would have been faster and more direct via rt 62/140/190. Something that a local would very likely know.

So, are we looking for someone in Holden? They could have been in the safety of their own home in 10-15 minutes.

I don't think we can really tell really...he could have come out BSR going south onto ball hill and then gotten on 31 going north and headed to 62 from the center....or he could have come out BSR on the north end at Boyston and onto 31 going south.

In other words he could have come out either end of BSR and still managed to go by the Mnt Barn.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes, but he wouldn't have had to stop at the stop sign and take the risk of sitting there to be seen.

He would have because there is a stop sign right there on Worcester road in front of prince of peace church. Where he wouldneither have to go straight through past the library and police station and head towards the Mnt....or turn right toward 62. Either way he still has to stop.

 

[ForensicMass]

I don't think we can really tell really...he could have come out BSR going south onto ball hill and then gotten on 31 going north and headed to 62 from the center....or he could have come out BSR on the north end at Boyston and onto 31 going south.

In other words he could have come out either end of BSR and still managed to go by the Mnt Barn.

Yea. Would it make sense to go south on BSR to go north on 31, though? There is the stop sign. Could that be a consideration? Could it be he was trying to avoid passing someone that might recognize him? She was very close to the north end of BSR, so it seems more logical to go north from there if intending to go north. Which wouldn't put him by mtn barn. If heading south he wouldn't pass mountain barn unless he first went north on BSR then BOYLSTON AVE then 31s. It is odd and hard to make it fit. But the location data is pretty sound and unlikely to be off by 5,000 feet.

 

[ThinkHard]

Ok, that sounds plausible. Is there ANYTHING at all that makes one escape route more likely than the other ? North vs south? Assuming the route begins at the scene and that the mountain barn is along the route.

I am trying to reason the most likely place where he may have disposed of the phone. As I think this would have occurred soon after fleeing. It may be hidden there still, maybe within a mile or two of the crime scene.

Maybe near the Mnt Barn is where he heard it ping and he smashed it and disposed it somewhere else on his rt home...maybe a body of water?

 

[ThinkHard]

He could have shut it off (untraceable at this point) drove a couple miles and pitched it.

Phones intractable when they are off...they are sleeping not really off...and there location can still be tracked. You'd have to put it on airplane mode or take the battery out to not be tracked.

 

[ForensicMass]

Maybe near the Mnt Barn is where he heard it ping and he smashed it and disposed it somewhere else on his rt home...maybe a body of water?

I don't believe Her phone wouldn't have made a sound- rather the "Ping" is just a signal shown on the phone which is being used to track the location of her phone. It shows a map, and shows where on the map the phone is.

This is not the same technology that you would use to locate a cordless phone in your home by pressing a button and having the phone ring somewhere stuck in your couch. It is a GPS/wifi location.

But I do agree that water bodies adjacent to this roadway should be of particular interest.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think he did, and if that ping wasn't from her Mom trying to find her, then I am going to say that at 2:25 was the exact time he shut it off, and that's why it pinged.

I've thought that too and wondered the same if it was the exact time he destroyed it and therefore it was its last known location.

Which is why like others I wonder why it got disabled at that time. Was she alive? Was it with her? If he had it how? Why?

Not asking you specifically just pondering.

 

[ForensicMass]

Phones intractable when they are off...they are sleeping not really off...and there location can still be tracked. You'd have to put it on airplane mode or take the battery out to not be tracked.

What are you guys all talking about? It's cut and dry. Find my iphone app ONLY WORKS WHEN PHONE IS POWERED ON. I don't know why you all seem so adamant that I'm incorrect. This info is easily obtainable in a simple Google search. If the phone is powered off or the battery is dead, find my iPhone DOES NOT WORK.

GOOGLE IT!
Literally google this

"does find my iphone work if phone is turned off"

 

[ThinkHard]

Yea. Would it make sense to go south on BSR to go north on 31, though? There is the stop sign. Could that be a consideration? Could it be he was trying to avoid passing someone that might recognize him? She was very close to the north end of BSR, so it seems more logical to go north from there if intending to go north. Which wouldn't put him by mtn barn. If heading south he wouldn't pass mountain barn unless he first went north on BSR then BOYLSTON AVE then 31s. It is odd and hard to make it fit. But the location data is pretty sound and unlikely to be off by 5,000 feet.

Either direction if he goes 62 or north toward Westminstern on Mnt road he has a stop sign.

My point was he wouldn't loop around to avoid a stop sign he'd face either way of that was his intended direction.

Going south on BSR and looping north though not as durect also isn't so far out of the way we can rule it out.

It's also possible he fled south on BSR and wasn't even sure where he was headed, then realized the phone was there and looped past the Mnt Barn. Or perhaps he's from town and decided to go to his parents house rather then back to his own house and so he changed directions...

im just not sure we can really tell his direction from this information unfortuanltey.

 

[Kickoff61]

If that is the case, I don't think he would have left the phone powered on throughout everything until 2:25pm. This is my opinion, I am entitled to without an argument, thanks.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't believe Her phone wouldn't have made a sound- rather the "Ping" is just a signal shown on the phone which is being used to track the location of her phone. It shows a map, and shows where on the map the phone is.

This is not the same technology that you would use to locate a cordless phone in your home by pressing a button and having the phone ring somewhere stuck in your couch. It is a GPS/wifi location.

But I do agree that water bodies adjacent to this roadway should be of particular interest.

Respectfully we don't KNOW what technology was being used when the word Ping was used. It is all just speculation.

I understand how this technology works and I wasn't confusing things. But for all we know VM could have had an app on her phone her family used if they got worried and perhaps it even caused the phone to make a sound.

We just don't know what technology was used. That has not been shared publicly.

 

[Kickoff61]

Again I am not looking for an argument and if you disagree you can ignore me, or place me on ignore, but I don't think it is proven yet, that she was killed at the beginning of her run. Very well could have been, but not proven.

 

[ThinkHard]

What are you guys all talking about? It's cut and dry. Find my iphone app ONLY WORKS WHEN PHONE IS POWERED ON. I don't know why you all seem so adamant that I'm incorrect. This info is easily obtainable in a simple Google search. If the phone is powered off or the battery is dead, find my iPhone DOES NOT WORK.

GOOGLE IT!
Literally google this

"does find my iphone work if phone is turned off"

It's not cut and dry because "find my phone" is only speculation.

 

[Rocky1]

How do you think that is possible? there has to be electricity running through the device to transmit and receive signals. If no electricity, it same as trying to track a stone on the beach. You can shoot out a signal looking for a response, but it won't be received and no return response signal will be generated.

I stand corrected. I miss read the data. It says that if you see the "Offline, No location available, or Location services off that means the battery could be dead, or the phone is turned off.
I spoke to a software engineer friend and he said there's an app where you can turn the phone on remotely. he also said a company called Cyber Cell may be able to track a phone that is turned off, but not with the battery dead. he said you have 24 hours to track the phone once it is turned on. he did say if there was no wi fi signal, that would expand the area.
My mistake.

 

[ForensicMass]

It's not cut and dry because "find my phone" is only speculation.

there are not a myriad of technologies at play here. any other phone location softwares would operate on the same platforms. we know that her family referenced the ping very early on in the investigation earlier than any such information could be derived from cell phone tower triangulation or from the cell phone providers themselves. That really only leaves one thing. You can say it is speculative, but whether it is called find my iPhone or find my best friend or find my lost dog whatever you want to call it it only has a few ways that it can operate- Those being locating the cell by GPS, cellular wifi, or cell tower triangulation. Therefore there is no way to track a phone that has no power Don't know how anyone could come to any other conclusion -find a link to something where you can find a phone that has no power and prove me wrong. it would be defying the laws of physics so I'm very confident that I am correct on this.

 

[ForensicMass]

I stand corrected. I miss read the data. It says that if you see the "Offline, No location available, or Location services off that means the battery could be dead, or the phone is turned off.
I spoke to a software engineer friend and he said there's an app where you can turn the phone on remotely. he also said a company called Cyber Cell may be able to track a phone that is turned off, but not with the battery dead. he said you have 24 hours to track the phone once it is turned on. he did say if there was no wi fi signal, that would expand the area.
My mistake.

No problem and you provided some good information there. Thanks for digging a little deeper!!!!

 

[Rocky1]

there are not a myriad of technologies at play here. any other phone location softwares would operate on the same platforms. we know that her family referenced the ping very early on in the investigation earlier than any such information could be derived from cell phone tower triangulation or from the cell phone providers themselves. That really only leaves one thing. You can say it is speculative, but whether it is called find my iPhone or find my best friend or find my lost dog whatever you want to call it it only has a few ways that it can operate- Those being locating the cell by GPS, cellular wifi, or cell tower triangulation. Therefore there is no way to track a phone that has no power Don't know how anyone could come to any other conclusion -find a link to something where you can find a phone that has no power and prove me wrong. it would be defying the laws of physics so I'm very confident that I am correct on this.

All true, and without a wi-fi signal, the location could be off for a lot more than 300 ft.