Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Linda7NJ]

David Payne describes Madeleine, 24 April 2009

Extract from David Payne's rogatory statement to Leicestershire Police on 10 April 2008

"Mmm..., errr... Madeleine's, errr... a very striking, errr... beautiful child, I'd almost - if I want a better phrase - call her doll-like, you know. She was very, you know, I think, you know, very unique looking child, errr... she'd got very pretty, you know, blonde hair, errr... in a bob, she was quite a petite, errr... child and, you know, she was very bubbly, very, errr... you know, she was a very good child to, to interact with. She was very bright, you could have a lot of fun with Madeleine, errr... and, you know, she, she was, you know, Kate and Gerry's, you know, pride and joy. They'd had a lot of trouble conceiving, you know, with IVF and everything and, you know, Madeleine was their miracle. She was obviously very unique with the fact that she'd got the, you know, the iris defect, errr... but, you know, she was certainly a happy go lucky child, you know, she was, she would interact with the other children very well, as I said on the other, earlier recording, you know, she played very happily with Lily and, you know, indeed the other children. She was, you know, very... she is a very beautiful child and good fun."

(...)

"You know, I, you know, a fact I've come across already you know, she was a... she's a very bright child, you know, she wouldn't be the kind of mischievous child who, you know, and just try and get out of the flat and, you know, get up to mischief and that, you know, there's fun in all children but she certainly wasn't that kind of child. She was very bright."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html

How bizarre


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[song22]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htmSo he was searching for her alone. he says, "I started venturing up towards the err Millennium where we'd eaten and it was just so quiet and there was nothing going on that way and I just thought oh you know, and I again I was just building up hope that she'd ran off err you know I actually went on a search and I went down past the Supermarket,
I went down towards the err seafront, you know went along the whole length of the err beach looking under you know err beach huts and etcetera, just you know and shouting Madeleine..."

He really has an intense desire for the interviewer to know what a fantastic trip it had been, how happy everyone was with the trip. He is just very, very earnest in wanting folks to know that he planned and executed a wonderful vacation for everyone. It just seems very odd. Isn't the supermarket where dogs tracked?

 

[Estelle]

Another description of Maddie by Jon Corner, Maddie's godfather and filmmaker:

'So beautiful, astonishingly bright, and I’d have to say very charismatic. She would shine out of a crowd. So—God forgive me—maybe that’s part of the problem. That special quality. Some ******* picked up on that.'

Yes, an odd way to describe a child not yet 4. From her photos, Madeleine looks to have been a pretty little girl rather than beautiful, and how do you decide that a child of that age is 'astonishingly bright' unless she's already a member of Mensa or playing Chopin on the piano or something of that kind, ie a gifted child? 'Bright' maybe, but 'astonishingly bright' unfortunately makes Jon Corner sound astonishingly OTT. As for 'very charismatic' ... hmm, again not the usual word to describe a child of that age.

The 'she would shine out in a crowd' is just stupid. We saw the footage of Madeleine on the bus, Madeleine going up the steps of the plane, and she looked just as you'd expect - a normal, ordinary little girl. How does this become 'shine out in a crowd'? Where?

These descriptions of Maddie by both David Payne and Jon Corner have made me suspicious of certain possible behaviour in 2006/7!

Then we had this in Kate's book on Page 129!

"I asked Gerry apprehensively if he'd had any really horrible thoughts or visions of Madeleine. He nodded. Haltingly, I told him about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart".

 

[song22]

So reading through Paynes testimony, there's a lot that gives me pause. His demeanor comes off as strange, his memory is vague, he stammers so much and seems nervous. But then I also had to remind myself that this guy would have been totally traumatized by this whole event, everyone there would have been. I was imagining myself in this situation, especially if I had been the one to plan and organize the whole trip! I would feel so guilty, like all of it was my fault. And I would not have gotten over it, I don't think ever in my life. The horror of any child going missing--but one you knew! And one close enough to your own children, and then on top of that, the whole trip was your idea and you organized it! So, I'm backing off my suspicions a bit. There's weirdness, but I'm also very interested in tractorman. MOO!JMO! etc.

 

[song22]

I can understand the "shine out in a crowd" kind of comments and the "beautiful" comments, too if I think of it from the perspective of someone who knew this child and was present when this child went missing. It's kind of the way many of us WSers talk about the lost children on these forums--we call them angels and beautiful all the time. We say similar things because we are expressing the preciousness of each one of them and there is hyperbole to counteract the horror of what usually happen to them. So, when I first read Payne's words, it did give me pause. But then I thought of my neighbor children and imagined what if one of them went missing? I would say K had this amazing light and joy in her eyes and P was such a little man, always ready to help others, etc etc. They would shine in my memory like angels. JMO

 

[Estelle]

Other comments from Jon Corner on Panorama TV Show:

CORNER: I said to them that I think there's a possibility that Madeleine may not be the story eventually, that you may be the story.

BILTON: What did they say?

CORNER: They were quite distressed by that.

BILTON: It had not occurred to them before?

CORNER: Well it's difficult for me as a friend to be negative and to impart a sense of negativity.

BILTON: So they searched the whole villa?

CORNER: Yes.

BILTON: So what, as all this is going on, what do Kate and Gerry make of this?

CORNER: Well this is the bizarre thing Richard because the police said to Kate and Gerry: "Yeah, we're going to be coming along, we want to do some forensics." And Kate and Gerry were massively optimistic about this. You've got to remember if your daughter is missing and the police phone you and say: "We want to do some forensics, that's a straw that you hang onto? That's a moment for optimism?

BILTON: So what exactly is the case against the McCanns? Well some of it tenuous to put it mildly and hard to disentangle from wild press speculation. It was widely reported, for example, that the body was shifted in the back of this vehicle, the Renault Scenic the McCanns hired 25 days after Madeleine disappeared. The story goes that they drove the car to Huelva in Spain on the 3rd August where they disposed of the body. According to the McCanns, these pictures show the only trip they made to Huelva.

CORNER: It's bizarre, truly bizarre. I mean we use it as a base for the crew.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/11/panorama-transcript-mystery-of.html

 

[Karmady]

Seems like a waste, I mean if you're going to do heroin, do it right...
I guess what I'm trying to say... Do real hardcore heroin addicts smoke it? I never heard if such a thing.


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If I were to be a heroin addict, I'd be the wussified kind that can't inject. I imagine, but don't know, that if you are even slightly concerned about your family or your future, you'd not want to go hard core and get busted flat out by having track marks, etc., etc. Just speculation.

 

[Estelle]

Saturday's Daily Star front page: "Maddie stolen for 5 Euros"

 

[goldengirl57]

Well, if I thought that I was the main suspect in an international manhunt I would certainly hold on to any evidence that might some day speak for my innocence.

It's not just any old dirty pyjamas, it's evidence so he would have more reason to keep them.

BUT SURELY if in 2007 he thought he was the main suspect in an international manhunt he would have come forward in 2007 wouldnt he?

No I actually think he told the PJ it was him at the time this is a high profile case EVERYONE knew about it, even people living in obscure villagers.

This guys body and presence carrying a child was all over EVERY NEWSPAPER and on crimewatch, and pinky spin was showing it all the time everytime he could.

And if it was EVIDENCE then it would be kept by the police surely?

So no that doesnt actually make a whole heap of sense..sorry.

I am now convinced this sighting was known all along by PJ and that is why they discounted JT sighting from way back. They NEVER pushed the sighting it was only the McCanns and pink spin who did that....:moo:

 

[Estelle]

Unreleased statements belong to the following three categories:

- Category A
relate to people identified during the inquiry whose possible link to the events is extremely unlikely (the most tenuous) and whose right to privacy would be infringed if their personal information were left on file (basically the 'pervy' list).

- Category B
relate to Crimestopper data with respect to sightings, the TV program having guaranteed anonymity.

- Category C
relate to information from people - often criminals or having a criminal history - that was volunteered by them and they should not be put at risk for having come forward.

 

[goldengirl57]

Thinking about it I think TractorMan could be the guy if robbery was on his mind, and he accidentally killed her. It would explain the wardrobe scent, and the scent around the block.

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I really feel for this guy, he cant answer any accusations. I mean he could be guilty of this crime who knows, but its a dangerous road to travel i think personally turning him into a total criminal.

He made a mistake when he was young, he paid for it, was pardoned, and then had his family and from what i have read ALWAYS worked hard.

Anyway i thought the Romas were the robbers according to the great Scotland Yard....:moo: with a little LOL thrown in for good measures.

 

[goldengirl57]

I could ventures a guess. I have a friend with enough children to fill a shoe. born first ...girl, boy,boy, girl...she saved the unstained unworn out clothes and passed them down,


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Well yes i used to hand down clothing, but to be honest I would never be able to say what pyjamas my child was wearing on a particular night 6 years previously.

AND IF I HAD them for evidence, then I would have already SPOKEN to the police about them anyway in 2007....

Smoke and Mirrors........

 

[Estelle]

The great Gambo cover-up
Savile cops arrest BBC legend Gambaccini

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5238195/Savile-police-arrest-Paul-Gambaccini.html

One day soon, we might see a headline such as, The Great McCann Cover Up"!

 

[Estelle]

Police profile revealed Maddie suspect's 'suspicious behaviour with kids' - report
A POLICE profile drawn up of a new Madeleine McCann suspect has exposed his violent past and "suspicious behaviour with children", it was claimed today.

snipped...

The family of the latest suspect are threatening to sue the Portuguese state over the leaks and are insisting he is innocent. His brother-in-law spoke out to defend him and insisted Portuguese police had not been in contact.

Speaking outside his country home at the end of a dirt track a short drive from Praia da Luz where Madeleine disappeared, he said: "We do not know what the police think because they haven't been in touch.

"He has a mother and father and a brother and detectives may have contacted them but I do not know if that is the case.

"It was a shock to us all when we read the police suspected my late brother-in-law of kidnapping and killing Madeleine. "He wasn't named in the newspaper reports but we knew immediately who they were talking about.

"My sister does not want to speak about it. She has a young child she is trying to protect and she is obviously worried about the effect on him if it gets talked about at school.

"My brother-in-law was sacked from the Ocean Club and I can understand why the police would want to have a look at him, especially if they then discover he has a criminal conviction.

"But I strongly believe that if the police do consider he is a suspect in the Madeleine McCann case, they are looking at the wrong man. "The idea he did it to get revenge on the Ocean Club makes no sense at all.

"It wasn't as if what happened there with him losing his job destroyed his life.

"He got work elsewhere soon after. He was working at the time he died.

"He is not around to defend his reputation so others have to do it for him.

"Our concern is making sure this doesn't get any bigger.

"The police will do what they have to do but we don't want to say any more about it."

Portuguese police have made no official comment.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...spect-s-suspicious-behaviour-with-kids-report

As to "suspicious behaviour" with children...well there are no details given. Equally, I don't think the Daily Star is quoting the Gaspar statement are they? If Cape Verde Man is the killer, then Gerry and David are potentially exonerated of the aspersions cast upon them - but you could equally turn that round in theory which should give us pause for thought even if there were some evidence in that area. It's a huge leap from "suspicious behaviour" to murder.

 

[goldengirl57]

I find that photograph of the pajamas to be really strange. The pink fleece top is super dirty and it's also torn along the bottom back edge. What is the deal with that? If you knew right away that those PJ's would be important and set them aside for later reference why do they look so filthy and torn? Is that what they looked like when the child wore them? It just is so odd to me. I have no idea that it means anything or matters, it just strikes me as weird. I know someone thought maybe the dirty spots were from DNA testing--is that what testing does? I thought they would just swab some places for that. It really looks like mud. oh well. I know there were days my kids ran around looking like ragamuffins. If I had to show their jammies, I might of been pretty embarrassed!

EXACTLY. I think these jammies were worn at the time by the child and were grubby. A lot of parents tend to just make DO when on holiday and not change every five minutes because of washing etc.....

WHY WOULD THE jammies have DNA testing on them anyway, and why would they have any swab marks on them? I mean whats all that about?

I think the scenario is simple.

The child wore the JAMMIES for a few nights and kids get things grubby lol.

When the sighting by JT was made public, they came forward and said it was me, this was checked by PJ with creche records, the jammies were photographed and put in the files for evidence.

The PJ have never taken the JT sighting as fact. Actually dismissed it. Again it was only EVER our friends and pink spin who kept pushing it.

I do not believe for one minute after all the hoo ha and the media about this case, the family only just came forward, not unless they were living on Gideon Island..............

I think this is Scotland Yard smoke and mirrors...........:moo:

 

[goldengirl57]

David Payne describes Madeleine, 24 April 2009

Extract from David Payne's rogatory statement to Leicestershire Police on 10 April 2008

"Mmm..., errr... Madeleine's, errr... a very striking, errr... beautiful child, I'd almost - if I want a better phrase - call her doll-like, you know. She was very, you know, I think, you know, very unique looking child, errr... she'd got very pretty, you know, blonde hair, errr... in a bob, she was quite a petite, errr... child and, you know, she was very bubbly, very, errr... you know, she was a very good child to, to interact with. She was very bright, you could have a lot of fun with Madeleine, errr... and, you know, she, she was, you know, Kate and Gerry's, you know, pride and joy. They'd had a lot of trouble conceiving, you know, with IVF and everything and, you know, Madeleine was their miracle. She was obviously very unique with the fact that she'd got the, you know, the iris defect, errr... but, you know, she was certainly a happy go lucky child, you know, she was, she would interact with the other children very well, as I said on the other, earlier recording, you know, she played very happily with Lily and, you know, indeed the other children. She was, you know, very... she is a very beautiful child and good fun."

(...)

"You know, I, you know, a fact I've come across already you know, she was a... she's a very bright child, you know, she wouldn't be the kind of mischievous child who, you know, and just try and get out of the flat and, you know, get up to mischief and that, you know, there's fun in all children but she certainly wasn't that kind of child. She was very bright."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html

With all the ERRRS and you knows I would say he had something to hide.

His communication skills are rubbish.

Its almost evasive...errrrrr you know...NO I DONT KNOW...

I taught communication this guy has something to hide.:moo:

Also what man speaks about a 3 year old like that.

Most dads I have known (and grand dads), think 3 year olds are a pain in the backside running around screaming and breaking things lol....and causing havoc.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I must've missed the police presser that told us about tractor guy.

There wasn't one?

Hmmmm....

Only a month ago it was a vanload of cleaners, then a burglar, then gypsies now an ex staffer.

How many of these "facts" have been released by LE, and how many by anonymous "sources"?

 

[Estelle]

Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Gerry McCann AND the stolen wallet.

I can see this find has caused a lot of interest, just to be clear ,I have posted the link to the Police for them to investigate..Hopefully with an officer who cannot be bribed by MURDOCH...ONLY if the police ask me to remove it will I do so.

http://steelmagnolia-mccannarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/httpwww_27.html

 

[Estelle]

Did Gerry have inside knowledge about this and this is the reason why Blair then Brown was prepared to protect the McCanns?

MP claims historic link between paedophile ring and No 10 Downing Street

THERE is “clear intelligence” suggesting a historic paedophile ring may be linked to Downing Street and a former prime minister, MPs were told yesterday.

• Labour MP Tom Watson has suggested a historic link exists between a paedophile ring and No 10 Downing Street

• Mr Watson urges police action to follow intelligence that implicates senior aide to a former Prime Minister

Labour MP Tom Watson alleged a member of a notorious group was connected to a former No 10 aide.

He said: “The evidence file used to convict Peter Righton, if it still exists, contains clear intelligence of a widespread paedophile ring.

“One of its members boasts of his links to a senior aide of a former prime minister, who says he could smuggle indecent images of children from abroad. The leads were not followed up, but if the files still exist, I want to ensure that the Metropolitan Police secure the evidence, re-examine it and investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful paedophile network linked to Parliament and No 10.”

Speaking at Prime Minister’s Questions in the Commons, David Cameron said it was a “very difficult and complex case” and he was “not entirely sure” to which former prime minister Mr Watson was referring.

The Prime Minister said he would look at the case “very carefully”.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/mp-...phile-ring-and-no-10-downing-street-1-2595948

 

[goldengirl57]

So the tractor man has gone from abductor, revenger, heroin addict, burglar, so on and so forth.

HE must have been a brilliant robber then as he was NEVER caught rifling through all these apartments.......

This is HYSTERIA and also the newspapers making hard cash out of this guys death.

HE CANNOT answer any of the accusations, and each day with a Chinese whisper, another false hood or exaggeration is put into place....

OK let us look at the 5 euro for example from the till.

IF he was guilty of taking 5 euro (about 4british pounds - 6 dollars would be less in 2006).

WHY would he KICK OFF...?

He stole, he got caught he hung his head and got sacked and moved on....in disgrace....

Why seek revenge on the Ocean Club?

Now whatif.....he had earned his TIPS and was told he could take them out of the till (seems the sort of amount that you would have as tips), he was caught and because this was not the correct practice the person who said he could kept schtum about it for fear of being sacked.....

NOW THAT would make sense if he got upset about it.........I would too.

IF he was such an addict I would have thought his partner would have known that. Not only that he worked constantly when he could get work.

He worked in the Millenium restaurant which was over 500 metres away from OC. It did not belong to the complex did it? Why then exact revenge on OC.

Also we are to believe he was watching the McCanns and knew their every move whilst he was working in the restaurant doing his evening shift. SO DID THE MCCANNS go there regularly then....?

IF we are to believe the McCanns the went to tapas so how would he know their routine?

Why would someone burgle holiday apartments most people actually only bring their clothes, and perhaps a camera. There is a safe for passports etc. So what would there be to burgle?

The guy lived 5km away from PDL so why wouldnt his phone ping in the area?

I live 3 miles from my local town (5km), before i got sick i was nearly always there doing stuff or meeting friends. NOW if this guys phone pinged and he lived 60 km away I would probably sit up.

So what do we have really on this guy?

REALLY?

A ping on a mobile phone.
A sacking in 2006 for allegedly stealing 5euros
And some petty thieving....

Thats it folks.......PLEASE feel free to elaborate.........