Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

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Why the hello would these parents pick one child to kill over their others? Was there a fit of rage Or an accidental death? If so why didn't the parents call for help?
I'm not buying that the MCCann's offed their little one while on vacation.

From July 4, 2013.
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London police launched a review of the case in 2011 after the couple wrote to British Prime Minister David Cameron saying not enough was being done to find their daughter.
http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬/news/world/2013...nquiry-into-missing-madeleine-mccann-n1634321



B B M
The pictures of Madeleine's last days seen with her family make me think she was not an abused child or a stressed child, etc.

A photograph is a split second in time. Nothing more.
It would be absolutely wonderful if we could tell who was an abused child by simply looking at a photograph!


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And at the very least... Cooperating with law enforcement.

IMO

That's what normal loving parents do when their children go missing.


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They are cooperating now.. because the PJ has made a cleanse in their forces, now no centralists like Amaral but all professionals .. :seeya:
 
They are cooperating now.. because the PJ has made a cleanse in their forces, now no centralists like Amaral but all professionals .. :seeya:

Ohhhh 6 years to late IMO


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A photograph is a split second in time. Nothing more.
It would be absolutely wonderful if we could tell who was an abused child by simply looking at a photograph!


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Yes that's also true.
 
EARLIER DEATH THEORY

I cannot take any credit for this theory and the research done on it plus the mobile phone and creche records on two other large forums since the PJ case files were released. The originator no longer posts on these forums as the revelations were too out of left field for other posters to accept even though he supplied circumstantial evidence but also because it had not appeared in the MSM. He was often threatened with being banned. I was one of the posters who posted with him but I was never banned. I have the utmost respect for his passion in getting justice for Maddie. His research probably began about 2009 so it is very complex. Only this year, he sent it to the PJ as he did not trust NSY.

He only posts on twitter now and has been very open about what he states. His last tweets were:

"Kate and Gerry are toast. Expect them to make a dash for exile quite soon. Unsustainable."

See what Spanish TV shows about 2 minutes in:

http://www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/video...-fue-secuestro-planificado/2066428/?media=tve

"If Smith sighting wasn't Gerry, he'd have welcomed it as proof Maddie had been abducted just before 22.00. He suppressed it. It was Gerry."

Smith's statement:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Smiths have not changed their view. But Martin Smith phoned the PJ in September, 2007 to tell them that he was 60-80% sure it was Gerry McCann.

The Smiths were never reinterviewed by the police after the case was shelved in 2008. There is nothing official about them changing their witness statements. Amaral intended to get them back to Portugal to make a statement but he was taken off the case before he had a chance to do this.

This BS aboiut the McCanns not being suspects is to be classified along with the McCanns being told they were not suspects or that the PJ believes their daughter is still alive. Same stuff.

Martin Smith Commenting re the Crimewatch documentary which was broadcast on Monday night he added: “The only new thing in the investigation is the elimination of Jane Tanner’s sighting.

“Apart from that from our point of view everything else remains the same in relation to what we said to the police and the media at the time. We have nothing more to add.”

But whether Gerry McCann was carrying Maddie's dead body or posing as the abductor carrying another child (probably sedated) hoping to be seen but not recognised in the dark of the night is not yet known. Was Gerry really in the Tapas Bar at 10pm as the waiters told the PJ that they were all gone from the dinner table much earlier eg 9.30 to 9.40pm. (See their statements). One waiter even went into hiding later.

However, due to my following of Kikoratton's research for many years, it is speculated that the child was either Jane Tanner's child or Amelie wearing Maddie's pyjamas.

Others think that Martin Smith and Jane Tanner were following the same script in their description of the abductor as there are 17 similarities in what they said except for the colour and length of the hair. So were they in collusion? It appears that Martin Smith originally made his statement to protect Murat who had been accused of being the abductor by Jane Tanner and tapas friends.

Kikoratton believes it was Gerry carrying out a faked abduction.

For those who are open to the earlier death scenario, Gerry was not carrying Maddie's dead body as her death did not occur on that night. Her body was probably already in a fridge/freezer probably in 5J before the GNR dogs came to search the other apartments when it was moved. But where that fridge was in unknown. It had to have been frozen because of what was found in the boot of the Renault Scenic which revealed the body had been frozen.

This is a very complex case so I cannot state everything here.

But one of the problems with this earlier death scenario was that the nannies said Maddie was there and that she had been signed in and out on most of the 5 days.

Most of what the McCanns say about that week is to back up the fact that they want us and the PJ to believe Maddie was still alive eg the crying episodes.

They even had to admit to neglect as otherwise the abductor would not have had free access on May 3. However, Amaral found out that all the children had been put into one apartment/villa and one of them acted as the babysitter. The only hair DNA found in apartment 5A was from three men - GM, ROB and MO. So why wasn't any DNA of the twins and Maddie found there? Maybe Kate's DNA was found there but cannot remember now. So did the McCann family actually stay in 5A that week? Or did they only use 5A for the faked abduction scenario as it was close to the street with easy access far the abductor? Most agree that Maddie's body was there in 5A earlier in the week having been brought back there in the blue sports bag when she had an accident somewhere else and then died in 5A. But nothing is sure there. There are many theories of how she died but spinal fluids were found in the car.

(The reason IMO for Oldfield's "pretend checkings" is that he had already asked Gerry McCann to be a witness at his upcoming trial for hospital negligence where he was in charge of a team which made a late diagnosis and the patient died. So IMO he felt obliged to help Gerry out.)

So as far as the creche records are concerned, Kikoratton identified that Gerry's handwriting was similar against two of the children's names as if he signed two girls into the creche. I will not reveal the names of those girls. You can find the creche records and see for yourself on www.mccannfiles.com.

Then he found the signature of one of the fathers online and compared it to his supposed signature on the creche records. He even phoned that father who was noncomittal. Kikoratton found out that one of the girls had a friend whose name was also Madaline but note it is spelt differently that is why the McCanns said that their daughter was never called "Maddie" as this girl was never called "Maddie". This girl whose picture I have seen is blonde, and looks like Maddie. So Madaline was signed in as "Maddie" and Gerry forged the other father's signature as Madaline would not go to the creche alone without her friend. But both parents gave Gerry permission to take them.

It is therefore speculated that this girl was the substitute child who attended the creche all days of that week. So Maddie never attended the creche and the nannies did not lie. They assumed that Madaline was "Maddie". This is why there are few photos of Maddie and those we have been seen have mostly been photoshopped if they are supposed to be Maddie at PDL.

But at first, Kikoratton had focused on analysing the mobile phone records to make connections with who was phoning who, checking with their statements and their locations. The PJ had been refused by the British not to access earlier records and to concentrate on May 3. So they had not done this analysis. Then when Kiko found many discrepancies, he then looked at the creche records where other posters had been working on the creche records and also found many discrepancies over the years. But it was kiko who found out about the forged signature.

This research therefore points to premeditation as substitute Madaline was already there to begin at the creche at the beginning. It would not have worked if she took over later.

It also points to an earlier death - either 29 or 30 April. IMO the motive could have been something to do with Maddie's health as they realised she was not going to be the perfect trophy child that narcissistic parents want to show off about to their friends. Maddie's medical records were never made available to the PJ who asked for them.

In summary,

Who was responsible for Maddie's death is unknown - Gerry, Kate or someone else known to them?

How did she die? IMO strangulation because of the spinal fluids found in the boot of the Scenic. Jane Hill from the BBC once announced this in September, 2007 but it was whooshed from the internet a few hours later.

Where did she die? Apartment 5A.

When did she die? IMO 29 or 30 April, 2007 according to what I have said above.

Why did the tapas7 lie to cover it up? IMO because they felt sorry for the McCanns because Gerry claimed it was an accident but was it?

Why did she die? IMO Maddie could have been an unhealthy unwanted child after their perfect twins came along and Gerry saw an opportunity to make her into a cash cow by faking the abduction to attract public sympathy and setting up the fund.

Who knows where her body is? The McCanns and they have made sure it will never be found.

Why have SY and PJ claimed recently that the McCanns are not suspects? IMO this is because this is a new investigation with new police personnel so they are starting from the beginning again and will have to re-interview all witnesses as well as new ones especially if they have agreed with Kiko's research of an earlier death and timeline. They also want and need to keep the McCanns onside.

What about Amaral's libel trial? IMO he should win as he only wrote about his own investigation up to September, 2007 using the case files. He was just about to get the Smiths back to PDL to make another statement but he was removed from the case. The SY and PJ are starting now from where Amaral left off and it has taken them two years to get to the same place whereas Amaral took six months while having to tolerate political pressures as well.

Also, his book cannot be blamed for disrupting the search for Maddie as the McCanns kept this Smith sighting and E-fits secret for five years so they damaged the case themselves and there is no medical evidence of psychological injury of the McCanns or the twins as a result of his book. This last revelation helps Amaral's case.

All my own opinions

You can follow kikoratton at https://twitter.com/search?q=kikoratton&src=savs
 
With all due respect the Times source is the ex spy who worked on the case, one who was once caught stealing perfumes.
Apparently he's been in jail in past 5 years. And the other guy is still in jail.
So it is up to you to chose who to trust .. LOL

And the other guy you choose to trust is Amaral, who was also convicted of lying, not to mention his best friend also ex PJ polioceman, Cristovao, also charged recently on seven counts, one including spying on a 6 year old child!

All good guys LOL and we hear their theories in here and trust them!
And yet SY made the Smiths sighting and these e-fits central in their investigation. Makes me think those perfumes don't really have anything to do with it. JMO.
 
IN ORDER TO BACK UP MY PREVIOUS POST

Kikoratton (dewi lennard) the Researcher stated in Portugal Newswatch
October 15, 2013

http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/madeleine-mccann-so-whats-new.html

These are the points he made on above link referring to his own research:

  1. Kiko has shared his research with Chief Investigator Monteiro at Diretorio do Norte, Porto in 2013.
  2. Analysis of the telephone calls shows that the McCanns were:
  3. starting the cover-up by 22.00 on 1 May
  4. followed by Gerry's infamous 12 voicemails on 2nd May.
  5. The creche attendance records show that a guest called Naylor allowed GM to sign his own daughter plus another girl in, from as early as 29 April.
  6. No relationship Naylor/GM has ever been admitted or investigated.
  7. He believes the "other girl" whom GM claimed was Maddie, was in fact a little friend of the Naylors, called Madalene R...r
 
Quote by Haden, snipped

Correct, imo anyways. There is no way 7 people would cover up and lie about Maddie's death...not for the McCanns or each other. The Tapas group had nothing to cover up because they nor the McCanns had anything to do with the child's disappearance.


I believe there was a preplanned action to kidnap Maddie by strangers.
A kidnapping made for wicked reasons.
That being said, I'm still reading old threads and articles to learn and relearn about this case.
I concur. All seven gave the same basic story with slight variations in time and personal perceptions. They couldn't have maintained that, imo, with all of them interviewed 3 times, twice in Portugal and once back in Leicester. Someone would have slipped up by now.
 
Their tactics and narcissistic taunts are so strikingly similar to the Ramsey's ..,.its uncanny! IMO


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Team #McCann comparable to Team Ramsey

In the wake of Madeleine’s disappearance, the conduct of ‘Team McCann’ was practically a carbon copy of ‘Team Ramsey’ after the murder of Jonbenet, to such an extent that it appears the McCann’s followed their lead and used the same blueprint.

Like Kate and Gerry McCann, Patsy and John Ramsey

  1. they thoroughly contaminated the crime scene by inviting numerous friends over, including their pastor.
  2. claimed their daughter had been kidnapped
  3. the other siblings slept soundly throughout the commotion,

    [*]
    but there was no sign of forced entry in either case.
  4. The Ramsey’s implicated disgruntled employees, nannies and close friends, while the McCann’s found a scapegoat in Robert Murat and after they hired their own private detectives phantom suspects came flooding in, creating false leads and wasting time.
 
Team #McCann comparable to Team Ramsey

In the wake of Madeleine’s disappearance, the conduct of ‘Team McCann’ was practically a carbon copy of ‘Team Ramsey’ after the murder of Jonbenet, to such an extent that it appears the McCann’s followed their lead and used the same blueprint.

Like Kate and Gerry McCann, Patsy and John Ramsey

  1. they thoroughly contaminated the crime scene by inviting numerous friends over, including their pastor.
  2. claimed their daughter had been kidnapped
  3. the other siblings slept soundly throughout the commotion,

    [*]
    but there was no sign of forced entry in either case.
  4. The Ramsey’s implicated disgruntled employees, nannies and close friends, while the McCann’s found a scapegoat in Robert Murat and after they hired their own private detectives phantom suspects came flooding in, creating false leads and wasting time.

Don't forget the Ramsey's & machine smoozed their way to gaining access to evidence and right into the DAs office ... Shoot... Even the grand jury had to listen to that stupid intruder theory. They were smart enough to reject it. ;) but still that fact managed to be kept from the public for 15 years...till right now?


Now the McCanns are doing exactly the same...


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Don't forget the Ramsey's & machine smoozed their way to gaining access to evidence and right into the DAs office ... Shoot... Even the grand jury had to listen to that stupid intruder theory. They were smart enough to reject it. ;) but still that fact managed to be kept from the public for 15 years...till right now?


Now the McCanns are doing exactly the same...


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Yes the McCanns have recently even applied via their lawyer to be assistants to the Prosecution!

They also asked for the case files to be released but the PJ held many back and they never thought they would be released to the public and that they would be translated for us by members of forums!
 
A "suspicious person" sighting from the PJ files:

Derek Flack appeared before the PJ, an English citizen on holiday in Praia da Luz, staying close to the resort, to report that on the 2nd or 3rd May he noticed an individual (about 1.70 cm in height, aged 25/35, dark, appearing to be Portuguese, with stubble, dark short hair and wearing a yellow T-shirt) who was standing at the corner of the path looking towards the apartment from which Madeleine disappeared. He added that close to the place where the individual was standing, on the other side of the street, there was a white parked van in which was a person who was later identified as having arrived in Portugal almost five years ago and who lived near Praia da Luz. Since the beginning of April 2007 he had taken up residence within his van. When confronted with the fact that his presence had been noted frequently near to the Ocean Club resort, he admitted that since the disappearance of Madeleine he had gone there regularly to ask British journalists for news about the girl’s whereabouts. He added that the reason for his preoccupation stemmed from her being a British girl and being of a “very tender age”. Recent investigation of his lifestyle shows that he had nothing to do with the disappearance. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

And

Derek Flack. He is an English citizen on holiday in Praia da Luz, near to the tourist resort, from last week until approximately 12th May 2007. In view of the disappearance of Madeleine, he came to give information about a suspicious event that he witnessed.
On the 2nd or 3rd May during the day (he does not remember exactly, but thinks it was during the afternoon), accompanied by his wife and when he was going to the Baptists supermarket, he observed an individual (about 1.70 in height, dark apparently Portuguese in appearance, with one day stubble, with short dark hair, cut long at the back, which extended to his shirt collar, wearing a yellow T ? shirt) who was standing at the corner of the path watching (this being the reason he found him suspicious) in the direction of the apartment that Madeleine would later disappear from.<O:p></O:p>
He adds that near to where the individual was watching, on the other side of the road, was a parked vehicle, van type, white, with a person (he does not remember whether the person was inside or outside the vehicle). He cannot describe that person. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm
 
McCanns Pressure and Harass Ocean Club Employee

Video here:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccanns-pressure-and-harass-ocean-club.html

Ocean Club Employee was pressured by Kate McCann to tell what she knows

Voice Over: What she saw, what she knows, and what could have this employee of the Ocean Club said to raise such an interest by the McCanns? 'Francisca', a fictitious name, was persistently approached at the end of the last year by the ‘spearhead’ of the couple in Portugal. Susan Hubbard, the wife of the Anglican Father [Haynes], in Praia da Luz, went various times to the tourist complex, to the house and even left notes in the mail box. She was determined to put her [the employee] in contact with Kate.

‘Francisca’ – She told me: ‘Kate wants to make contact with you, because she wants to make you questions, etc...’. And I said: ‘What questions? Because there’s a detail, at the time I was on my break. I had three days off, do you understand it?’ So, what I have seen, what I have not seen, who was there, who was not, I don’t know.

Voice Over: This witness might be key in the investigation, since she lives near to the church – the place where the former coordinator of the investigation suspects that Madeleine’s body passed through. The worker for the position she occupied, controlled a great part of the conversations and faces that appeared in Praia da Luz during the long months of the investigation. The insistence of Susan, so that ‘Francisca’ gave her personal email address arouse suspicions.

‘Francisca’ – She wanted to get in my ‘site’, to see who I was talking to or who I was in contact.

There is more here:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccanns-pressure-and-harass-ocean-club.html
 
I agree. The McCanns acted carelessly and irresponsibly by leaving their children alone like that and when one is supposedly abducted the time and financial burden of the initial investigation falls on the Portuguese people who provided investigation services. Now the people and their country are misaligned because the McCanns acted irresponsibly.

I'll take Portugal. Love the country and its culture. "Blame the police" is the oldest excuse in the world.

Not only Portugal but all the Roma people too. It wasnt enough that 250,00 ere exterminated by Himmlers Austwicz, because they were deemed unsocial etc, they are now brushed with being blonde girl trafficking pedos as well.

The damage done in this case is going to take a long time to repair sadly.

Forgive them no and I couldnt care less if they were waiting for my forgiveness.

Its the fallout for me caused by xenophobic PR that has made me feel sick and angry.

Ben Needham went missing in Greece very similar age. We hardly heard about him.

She tirelessly using her OWN MONEY even mortgaged her home went out and tried to find her son.

Now I have every respect for her. She doesnt shove her face in our faces constantly, didnt start a fund, selling Tshirts, go to Rome, blah blah blah.

She wasnt constantly going on and on. DIGNIFIED. By doing so she has earned a lot of respect.
 
Have you actually read the PJ files or even the Archive Summary?

Thousands and thousands of pages of diligences. If you haven't read them or even cast your eye over the summary, you cannot judge them poorly. It looks like an absolute shed load of work to me, despite zero cooperation from those who should have been cooperating from Day 1.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id199.html

The thing that stopped the PJ was the non cooperation of the McCanns who by then were the main suspects...indeed, they were suspect from the first hour.

How can this be the PJ's fault?

Why doesn't anyone criticise the "crack team of detectives" that the McCann spent millions of donated pounds on, yet who failed to even recognise the night crèche?

:banghead:

WHAT CRACKS ME UP is Scotland Yard has taken TWO YEARS to trawl through all the paperwork, statements etc. TWO YEARS.

Hardly a poor investigation. All over the Internet on most forums you cant ever say the parents did it, but these same people are quick to say all they ever hear is THEY LEFT MADDY ALONE blah blah, get over it move on, yet the same people all they say is:

The PJ are rubbish
Pork Chop cigar smoking idiots.....
The PJ are rubbish
Pork Chop cigar smoking idiots...

Amaral is a criminal
Amaral is a criminal
Amaral is a criminal

The dogs cant smell
The dogs cant smell
The dogs are rubbish
The dogs are rubbish

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH lol.....

So give us a THEORY then. I havent seen one theory. I have written a theory about abduction, but not one real comment.

As to the McCanns crack team are you talking about Metodo 3 who spent every day holding their replica cuddle cats and squeezing them as requested?

:floorlaugh:
 
A "suspicious person" sighting from the PJ files:

Derek Flack appeared before the PJ, an English citizen on holiday in Praia da Luz, staying close to the resort, to report that on the 2nd or 3rd May he noticed an individual (about 1.70 cm in height, aged 25/35, dark, appearing to be Portuguese, with stubble, dark short hair and wearing a yellow T-shirt) who was standing at the corner of the path looking towards the apartment from which Madeleine disappeared.

snipped

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

And

Derek Flack. He is an English citizen on holiday in Praia da Luz, near to the tourist resort, from last week until approximately 12th May 2007. In view of the disappearance of Madeleine, he came to give information about a suspicious event that he witnessed.

On the 2nd or 3rd May during the day (he does not remember exactly, but thinks it was during the afternoon), accompanied by his wife and when he was going to the Baptista supermarket,

snipped.....

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm [/FONT]

Derek Flack and Christine Dale

The fourth sighting of the lurking “Pimple Man”, who appeared to be the owner of a white van, was supposedly made by a “couple from Cheshire” who can be tracked in the PJ files as Derek Flack, aged 64, and his partner – Christine Margaret Dale, who at the time lived in Ilford in Essex. (Volume 1 folio 145 and Volume 4 folio 833 et seq). Mr Flack described the man he saw at around 11.30 on 2nd or 3rd May 2007 to the PJ as follows:

1.7m tall, dark skinned appearing to be Portuguese, with a one day stubble, with short thick hair that stretched down to collar level at the back and wearing a solid yellow t-shirt. He appeared to be the driver of a white van.
Interestingly

Mr Edgar’s whiteboards describe Mr Flack’s suspect as a “UK male” (not, as he said Portuguese) and the sighting he made as being on “2nd May 2007” rather than on “2nd or 3rd May 2007”.

The McCann investigators say nothing of the fact that Mr Flack told the PJ he did not believe he could identify the “lurker” if he were to see him again.

Again the evidence has been seriously misrepresented

In an article in the “Daily Mail” on 7th May 2009, Vanessa Allen and Peter Allen, devoted supporters of Mr and Mrs McCann, stated:

“A couple from Cheshire then saw the man on either May 2 or 3 staring at Apartment 5A, and standing near a parked white van. An artist’s impression of the man, commissioned by the “Find Madeleine Fund” shows a dark haired, heavily scarred man (ie “Pimple Man”) So it appears that the “Pimple Man” sketch was based on the description given by Mr Flack and Ms Dale.

The Channel 4 program also confirmed, probably unintentionally, that the Cheshire couple were in fact Mr Flack and Ms Dale because when referring to sighting 4 they produced the plan attached to Mr Flack’s statement:

The Plan Attached to Mr Flack’s Statement

The descriptions Mr Flack gave to the PJ in May 2007 resulted in the PJ preparing the following efit:

Original efit Based on Mr Flack’s Sighting.
Doesn’t look much like Pimple Man: does he?
This led to the tracing of Barrington Godfrey Norton (Volume 3 folio 704 and 709) a musician living in Praia da Luz.

The PJ and Leicestershire Police cleared him of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance
(Volume IV pages 833 and 834)

READ MORE ABOUT THE "SIGHTINGS" AT LINK BELOW:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/disgusting-episode-of-distorted.html
 
I have taken them into consideration and eliminated them. Just like the PJ.

Missing child investigations focus on ruling out family first. These two were never able to be ruled out in the first place, lied, schemed, and refused to cooperate.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a waste of time looking around for a horse.

What is your explanation for the McCanns supressing the efits by legal means?

There is absolutely no explanation for this whatsoever.

I wonder if Gerry's blog mentions issuing the legal letter against their own detectives....? Did Kate's diary mention that tiny detail?

Instead of the Smiths sighting we had to endure years of this, its EVERYWHERE all over the world what a waste of time.....

clarencemitchell_zps42e2b1a5.jpg
 
From Goncalo Amaral on 24/10/13:

"Dearchiving ...

After 5 years in a dusty court archive, it looks like the process in which was investigated the mysterious disappearance of a child will finally see the light of day.

At this moment, it is not relevant to know who agreed to the archiving and always opposed its reopening of the investigation based on all content of the process, what matters is that the investigation continues, either from the point it was interrupted, or from the convictions of those who later examined the facts.

But we must remember that a criminal investigation must not have as a concern:

the politically correct

nor have its scope limited scope by personal, institutional or other interests,

nor be the target of intolerable pressures and coercive acts,


what is in question is to ascertain the truth and the fate of the child, so that those responsible for the mysterious disappearance are brought to justice.

If the reopening of the investigation allows the realization of all missing diligences to take place, if it will take into account all lines of investigation still open, and answer all the questions, then we can say that the investigation was free and objective, reaching the material truth, then doing justice to the mysteriously disappeared child."

http://textusa.blogspot.com.au/
 
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