Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Estelle]

Ernie Allen : Missing Child Fraud.

Ernie Allen, one of Gerry McCann's first contacts in August 2007, his interest, is child sex abuse.

See photo of Gerry McCann with Ernie Allen here:

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2007/07/24/506991.html

Article is here:

http://pactofsilence.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/ernie-allen-missing-child-fraud.html

 

[Veidt]

I just wanted to chime in about the Roma (don't call them gypsies, that's not the word you're looking for...).

They're just like anyone else. There's good and bad everywhere. I've had two scary experiences with small groups of them (mostly kids, I was a kid too) but I have met many more Roma than that who were nothing but incredibly friendly and nice. I even had Roma neighbors at one point and they were some of the best neighbors I had believe it or not, going so far as once helping out when a neighborhood kid got lost and thanks to them the kid made it home safely.

It's just like everyone else, it depends on the individual person and not on a collective characteristic. If I swapped the "Roma" part of every prejudiced statement I see about Romani people with "Jew" or "Black", it would be the sort of comments nobody would get away with, but when it's the Roma it's apparently ok.

I doubt very much that they took her. I've never heard of Portuguese Roma kidnapping young children (other than rumours, but no names or dates or evidence). The reason why it even came up IMO, is that there's a lot of prejudice but it doesn't seem so feasible to me, a Roma person getting into the resort and not attracting any attention at least from the locals.

:twocents:

 

[Estelle]

The tide has well and truly turned now....Look what was published in the UK media even in 12 Jan 2010!

Madeleine McCann's death 'covered up by parents who faked kidnap', court hears

Madeleine McCann died in an accident in her family's Algarve holiday apartment and her death was covered up by her parents who then concocted a tale of kidnap, a Portuguese court was told.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-by-parents-who-faked-kidnap-court-hears.html

 

[Donjeta]

Another suspicious person report:

Lance Richard Purser was interviewed, he lives in the Praia da Luz area and recalls having seen, two weeks earlier, an individual aged about 35/40, slim, about 1.70, who would normally wear dark clothes, denim shirt and jeans, dark hair, straight and messy which reached his neck, however it was not long hair. He had a rustic appearance, dark skin, as if aged by the sun, and dark eyes. He says that he saw this individual more then once along the road leading to Praia da Luz, as well as close to a pharmacy in Rua Helena do Nascimento Baptista in Praia da Luz. Each time he saw him the man was alone, he did not notice any vehicles or companions. A photo fit was drawn up based upon this description. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

Is there anything more specific about what in particular was suspicious or noteworthy about this person? Or is any man seen around PdL suspicious by definition? Anyone know which photofit this is?

 

[gord]

The tide has well and truly turned now....Look what was published in the UK media even in 12 Jan 2010!

Madeleine McCann's death 'covered up by parents who faked kidnap', court hears

Madeleine McCann died in an accident in her family's Algarve holiday apartment and her death was covered up by her parents who then concocted a tale of kidnap, a Portuguese court was told.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-by-parents-who-faked-kidnap-court-hears.html

?? this is old news - and is simply reporting the old court hearing where the Mccanns challenged Amaral writing a book stating this as fact

we now have two new enquiries running with both the PJ and SY looking at all the evidence and potential clues in this case and not simply one area where the parents did it

 

[~n/t~]

Is there anything more specific about what in particular was suspicious or noteworthy about this person? Or is any man seen around PdL suspicious by definition? Anyone know which photofit this is?

Pick your choice

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eleine-McCann-asked-tourist-new-daughter.html

 

[Estelle]

THE 'OUR MADDIE EFFECT'

SNIPPED...

What we have seen over the past few weeks, then, is not, as has been too often asserted, an explosion of age-old anti-Gypsy prejudice; it is the product of the search for ‘Our Maddie’, complete with an ongoing, PR-heavy police investigation in the UK, a recent high-profile reconstruction of her disappearance on the BBC’s Crimewatch, and now a newly re-opened police inquiry in Portugal.

To attribute the sad cases of Maria and the two Irish children to mass suspicion of travellers or Roma misses the point. After all, it wasn’t a so-called lynch mob which descended on traveller and Roma families in Ireland or Greece, to take away their children.

In all three cases, it was the police, the authorities. And it has not been the public in Britain or elsewhere, ramping up the hysteria, and acting as if Madeleine McCann is just waiting to be found behind a closed caravan door. No, that has been a mixture of the police, aided and abetted by the British media, which has never failed to include a reference to Madeleine McCann or Ben Needham (a 21-month-old boy who disappeared in Greece in 1991), in its reporting first of Maria and then of the two Irish children. As one Telegraph commentator wrote of the case of Maria: ‘for [the McCanns], the mere possibility that another couple’s child could disappear and be found again was a source of inspiration’.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the_our_maddie_effect/14205#.Um-BzXA6DRW

 

[~n/t~]

Funny you are saying this.. I grew up in Mediterranean.. as I child I was always told by so many people when they saw me to be careful because I was blond, the gypsies would steal me..

I grew up thinking that Gypsies were obsessed with blond kids!

And I had gipsy women visiting our house, now used as a holiday home for my family.. they just come in and sit at you kitchen table and you cannot really get rid of them.. I took me hours to ask a gypsy woman to leave.. she was asking for my ring.. she said I would really get a bad luck if I don't give her my gold ring )

You have to give them something.. otherwise they won't leave.. and yes.. they do ask you about the children, how many children you have, how many children your neighbours have.. all during your attempts to ask them to leave..

They beg for stuff but don't steal kids. That's just rumour. We can always ask gitana. WS member.

 

[Estelle]

?? this is old news - and is simply reporting the old court hearing where the Mccanns challenged Amaral writing a book stating this as fact

we now have two new enquiries running with both the PJ and SY looking at all the evidence and potential clues in this case and not simply one area where the parents did it

Do you really think that they can ignore the evidence of the dogs who are more reliable than humans as dogs do not lie?

They are now looking for a body and the PJ mentioned the boot of the McCanns car.

Do you really think that the abductor put it in the boot of the Renault Scenic a few weeks later so that the McCanns would be implicated? How did Kate get cadaver scent on her clothes and CuddleCat plus a her footprint her shoe size on the car and on her key ring?

I remember now that you said previously that it would be strange to freeze a body for a few weeks and then move it later in the boot of their car. I admit it is strange but if you wish to get away with murder or cover up for someone else who has done it, then it is possible if you do not want to get caught. Their intention was to hide the body so it would never be found so that might take some time to work out in a foreign country with the media around. What happened on that Heulva trip? Are Maddie's remains in that urn that the McCanns have on their shelf at home? Pat Brown, once suggested her body may have been buried in their back garden at Rothley. Was the funeral held in Skipton? Is Dave Edgar right is suggesting it is still in PDL?

IMO the PJ are tracking their every activity since they arrived in PDL via mobile phone records.

IMO a crime that has had the support of the UK Govt and SY, is unlikely to leave any trace of a body. That would be careless.

However, the fact that they have said that they have spoken to witnesses and are looking for a body says to me that at least one member of the tapas group has spoken out. You're right RIP little girl.

 

[Estelle]

Pick your choice

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eleine-McCann-asked-tourist-new-daughter.html

All these seven men were discounted years ago by the PJ as innocent men going about their business. The eighth one is the Smith sighting which they withheld for five years!

 

[~n/t~]

All these seven men were discounted years ago by the PJ as innocent men going about their business. The eighth one is the Smith sighting which they withheld for five years!

So which one is the one Inana is referring to in the above post? An efit was done but was it ever released to the public?

Maybe just old news. The same efits we've already seen.

 

[~n/t~]

All these seven men were discounted years ago by the PJ as innocent men going about their business. The eighth one is the Smith sighting which they withheld for five years!

The smith sighting was the GM lookalike.

 

[~n/t~]

On the find Madeleine webpage they're still showing the 6 efits

http://www.findmadeleine.com


ETA. Interesting they still show the tanner man who was apparently identified claiming the child was his and not madeleine.


http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

 

[Veidt]

What happened on that Heulva trip? Are Maddie's remains in that urn that the McCanns have on their shelf at home? Pat Brown, once suggested her body may have been buried in their back garden at Rothley. Was the funeral held in Skipton? Is Dave Edgar right is suggesting it is still in PDL?

(...)

IMO a crime that has had the support of the UK Govt and SY, is unlikely to leave any trace of a body. That would be careless.

However, the fact that they have said that they have spoken to witnesses and are looking for a body says to me that at least one member of the tapas group has spoken out. You're right RIP little girl.

I'm not taking sides here, as I've said before I'm torn about this because so many things about this case make no sense and frankly I think that the possibility that the perp was one of her parents or someone in the Tapas group shouldn't be discarded.

I'm just curious to know how you think they would have smuggled her body all the way back into England. I assume they flew in and out of Portugal. Taking a human body no matter how small in your luggage would be difficult and risky, I believe. If they did it I'm more inclined to believe they disposed of her body, or maybe your theory about the urn since it would have been easy to smuggle.

I'm also curious to know why the SY and the UK Government would also be involved in the crime. If it was something that happened in the house and done by the McCanns or their friends, then IMO it seems more 'personal' than the stuff you usually hear conspiracy theories about. I don't know if they have any government connections but even if they did, it's hard to believe everyone in higher-up positions in all branches of government or SY would be involved. Let's imagine this for a second. The McCanns having a hypothetical friend named John Smith who has some kind of important position in the UK Government. In a pinch, they call him up to ask him for help in covering up that they or their friends killed Maddie. Now, John Smith, like any important person, has lots of enemies. Those enemies would be glad to have some dirt on him to discredit him. Covering up for a murder, especially the murder of a little girl, and especially at the request of the parents... that would be the kind that would wreck John Smith's life if it ever came to light, and given the number of people involved in such at a cover up on every level, John Smith would know that it was incredibly risky. He'd have to have people very much indebted to him and be more than indebted to the McCanns, to the point where whatever he was indebted to them for would be much worse for him if it came out. Why not just let the McCanns take the fall? It seems rather implausible and far-fetched, IMO.

Haven't they been looking since the start, though, especially after the first few days?

This is all :twocents:, :moo:, etc. and any snipping to Estelle's post was done by me for the sake of space and my reply making sense.

 

[~n/t~]

Smuggling her to the UK is a little far fetched IMO. I do believe, however that they did get a lot of help from higher up. Initial investigation did point the finger at the parents After that we just don't know why it got twisted with the government spending time and resources on this particular case when there are so many other children missing in the UK. Is it because it happened in another country? Is it because they're doctors?

 

[CHERIE.T]

Do you really think that they can ignore the evidence of the dogs who are more reliable than humans as dogs do not lie?

They are now looking for a body and the PJ mentioned the boot of the McCanns car.

Do you really think that the abductor put it in the boot of the Renault Scenic a few weeks later so that the McCanns would be implicated? How did Kate get cadaver scent on her clothes and CuddleCat plus a her footprint her shoe size on the car and on her key ring?

I remember now that you said previously that it would be strange to freeze a body for a few weeks and then move it later in the boot of their car. I admit it is strange but if you wish to get away with murder or cover up for someone else who has done it, then it is possible if you do not want to get caught. Their intention was to hide the body so it would never be found so that might take some time to work out in a foreign country with the media around. What happened on that Heulva trip? Are Maddie's remains in that urn that the McCanns have on their shelf at home? Pat Brown, once suggested her body may have been buried in their back garden at Rothley. Was the funeral held in Skipton? Is Dave Edgar right is suggesting it is still in PDL?

IMO the PJ are tracking their every activity since they arrived in PDL via mobile phone records.

IMO a crime that has had the support of the UK Govt and SY, is unlikely to leave any trace of a body. That would be careless.

However, the fact that they have said that they have spoken to witnesses and are looking for a body says to me that at least one member of the tapas group has spoken out. You're right RIP little girl.

WRONG , go back a few threads. Search dogs OFTEN get it wrong ie lie.
We have a couple dog specialist here at WS.

 

[Estelle]

On the find Madeleine webpage they're still showing the 6 efits

http://www.findmadeleine.com


ETA. Interesting they still show the tanner man who was apparently identified claiming the child was his and not madeleine.


http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

Yes I dare not go there but I have heard on Facebook that they have not updated their site recently to show the Smith sighting which is very telling. IMO they pay trolls to penetrate forums and twitter to spread their old propaganda of the old false sightings and the pedophile abductor theory.

But IMO the pedophile "abductor" was known to Maddie - not a stranger and she was not abducted on May 3.

IMO if the McCanns were not the perpetrators themselves, they could have rented Maddie out to elite pedophiles in the past (hence their current Govt protection due to blackmail and Operation Ore) and one of their friends was the perpetrator early in the week with their permission and they took on the role of concealing the body later - hence the willingness of the Tapas7 to cover it up as they were all present and feared for their careers if this was exposed. I have often thought that they went to a party on either 28 or 29 April, 2007 and took Madeleine with them and she was severely abused hence the need for her demise then brought back to 5A in the blue sports bag which went missing.

Someone tipped off the PJ that there was someone acting suspiciously in Burgau taking photos of children, next thing you know they were forensically testing an apartment there and hairs were found matching or similar to that of Robert Murat and Jane Tanner. Amazing so what was happening there?

IMO I have always believed that Murat was a willing patsy (but innocent of her demise) and Brian Kennedy could have been the leader of an elite international pedophile ring so he came forth to protect his members. Otherwise, his role has never made any sense to me.

 

[~n/t~]

WRONG , go back a few threads. Search dogs OFTEN get it wrong ie lie.
We have a couple dog specialist here at WS.

Yes the do if they're not properly trained (handled). I don't believe that's the case here. Blaming garbage and dirty nappies for the positive hit on the vehicle just won't cut it for me.

 

[Cherwell]

They thought it was Madeleine, and furthermore they thought the person carrying her was Gerry.

Reference to the sighting in the PJ's 57-page report summary
'Further on this issue, the testimony of MARTIN SMITH was considered, pages 1606 and following, reporting the sighting of an individual carrying a child, in one of the streets that lead to the beach. It was said that the child could be MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

That is called "evidence". :seeya:

It is opinion, not fact. Only two of the Smith party thought that the man looked like GM, the others did not. Martin Smith was only "60-80%" sure that the individual was GM. That is a long way from being a positive identification.

And saying that "the child could be MADELEINE McCANN" is not evidence, it is merely supposition.
Although according to the report you quote, no one said that anyway.

 

[~n/t~]

Yes I dare not go there but I have heard on Facebook that they have not updated their site recently to show the Smith sighting which is very telling. IMO they pay trolls to penetrate forums and twitter to spread their old propaganda of the old false sightings and the pedophile abductor theory.

But IMO the pedophile "abductor" was known to Maddie - not a stranger and she was not abducted on May 3.

IMO if the McCanns were not the perpetrators themselves, they could have rented Maddie out to elite pedophiles in the past (hence their current Govt protection due to blackmail and Operation Ore) and one of their friends was the perpetrator early in the week with their permission and they took on the role of concealing the body later - hence the willingness of the Tapas7 to cover it up as they were all present and feared for their careers if this was exposed. I have often thought that they went to a party on either 28 or 29 April, 2007 and took Madeleine with them and she was severely abused hence the need for her demise then brought back to 5A in the blue sports bag which went missing.

Someone tipped off the PJ that there was someone acting suspiciously in Burgau taking photos of children, next thing you know they were forensically testing an apartment there and hairs were found matching or similar to that of Robert Murat and Jane Tanner. Amazing so what was happening there?

IMO I have always believed that Murat was a willing patsy (but innocent of her demise) and Brian Kennedy could have been the leader of an elite international pedophile ring so he came forth to protect his members. Otherwise, his role has never made any sense to me.

I'll have to disagree with your theory. No disrespect. I don't think it's as complicated as that.