Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[haden]

I gather that she never walked that route with her parents before for the dogs to pick up. I can't see her walking willingly with an abductor that way, unless they've somehow talked her into going with them. Then again why take the time to walk her when they could carry her with the same results. I do think it's very possible that she was put into a waiting car, though.

But what if she for example went out on her own, looking for her parents and 'met' someone on the way, gave them her hand to walk her to her parents but the person took her away?

Or if she knew the person? For example she said 'were were you when we were crying last night'? Maybe the person was there 'last night? And she got to know them?

Still, by holding Madeleine's hand outside in open, the person would risk a lot?

Again.. no way to solving this puzzle!

 

[Fierljepper]

I am not sure if anyone of the group stayed there. This was a parking lot across the road from the OC reception.
And if someone stayed there why the dogs did not go to the apartment of the friends but they all stopped at the same parking place?

Kate implicitly said Madeleine would not come out on her own.. she said she knew her child.. but it happened to my own sister recently, she would never dream her little daughter would wander away but she did.. luckily she was found and after 20 minutes of search, she is only 2 but she went on hew own quite far away.

Still, this is quite puzzling, these dogs routes.. and this is quote close to the moment she was discovered missing.

But lets say Madeleine did come out on her own.. and went to that parking area.. what happened to her then?

Mind boggling indeed. Here my logic: Maybe we should reverse the dog route and assume she was walking on the hand of her parents back to the front door. However, if it is true that carrying a child does not leave any scent for the dogs to pick up later (which I find a bit strange to believe btw), then we might as well completely ignore the dog's 'round the block' track in any form of an abduction scenario, right? Carrying a child = no scent to track.

 

[haden]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...madeleine-mccann/story-fnihsmjt-1226750092190

McCanns dismissed this info tonight as a 'pure speculation'

 

[gord]

Are you guys saying for sure that if someone is carried they can't leave a scent ?

For me the only think that makes sense is maddy was taken out of the town by car. It makes more sense that she was alive . It is the only reason I can see why there is no trace of her body anywhere. It also explains why the sniffer picked up scent b to the car park . Not necessary it is Maddie's suppose . Could the dogs have picked up the abductor ?

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[haden]

Mind boggling indeed. Here my logic: Maybe we should reverse the dog route and assume she was walking on the hand of her parents back to the front door. However, if it is true that carrying a child does not leave any scent for the dogs to pick up later (which I find a bit strange to believe btw), then we might as well completely ignore the dog's 'round the block' track in any form of an abduction scenario, right? Carrying a child = no scent to track.

It seems it is true what you are saying carrying a child= no scent to track.

This was discussed a lot on some forums which don't exist any longer.. there was a guy whose job was to deal with such dogs, the search dog specialist, he is the one who said that.. that she had to be walking and that this would be her freshest route.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

McCanns dismissed this info tonight as a 'pure speculation'

I'm sure they don't want to get all excited about every report and then be crushed, Also if this is proved true, Then Madeleine is for sure dead and that is not something I would want to think about. I think they really hold out hope she is alive and don't want to face anything that points to her death.

And to be clear, it was not the McCanns that called it pure speculation but their representative..

"Clarence Mitchell, who represents Kate and Gerry McCann, said tonight: "We are aware of reports in the Portuguese press.

"They are pure speculation and the McCanns are not going to give a running commentary on every new report."



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[haden]

Are you guys saying for sure that if someone is carried they can't leave a scent ?

For me the only think that makes sense is maddy was taken out of the town by car. It makes more sense that she was alive . It is the only reason I can see why there is no trace of her body anywhere. It also explains why the sniffer picked up scent b to the car park . Not necessary it is Maddie's suppose . Could the dogs have picked up the abductor ?

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The dog handlers were given Madeleine's blanket/towel. I have elephants memory and this route has been puzzling me for long time.
Someone said that the potential abductor could have touched the blanket that that is why the dogs followed the route.

But to me this theory is not really logically satisfying. It was Madeleines blanket, not the abductors blanket.

 

[gord]

But she would have only left a scent if she had walked the route. Say she was carried. Why couldn't the dogs have n picked up the freshest scent or strongest which might have been the abductor . or maybe it was Maddie being carried all be it weaker

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[haden]

But she would have only left a scent if she had walked the route. Say she was carried. Why couldn't the dogs have n picked up the freshest scent or strongest which might have been the abductor . or maybe it was Maddie being carried all be it weaker

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Sorry I did not understand this.

Can you say it a bit clearer?

 

[gord]

I think they are all publicly opening Pandora's Box, just to close it again and let it lie. Closure.

I think the 'new' Portuguese cops are out there to show that they are taking the 'abductor' theory seriously, just ahead of Amaral having his butt whupped by the legals for the book. Distancing themselves. The powers that be will bring the McCanns out of this just fine.

Call me a conspiracy nut if you like, but I have been with this from day one - right when Steve Huff's blog almost collapsed under the weight of posts by people thinking there was something 'off' about the whole thing.

Spin, misdirection, distraction and more spin.


jmo

But if this truly was a white wash involving both police forces etc then why on earth re open everything yet again. They did the hard work years ago shutting the case. It makes no sense to open yet again just to deliberatelyshut it.

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[jigzy]

Regarding the route that the dogs identified, I remember reading this:

"In a further twist, locals now claim that Madeleine did not always settle well. One evening they allege she ran away into the paths between the apartments, hiding for half an hour when it was time for bed."

http://steelmagnolia-mccannarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/mccann-locals-say.html

The paths between the apartments being possibly the route the dogs took. Maybe she ran out the front door (the one by her bedroom window) at bedtime, ran around the block and was headed towards the car park when apprehended by her parent. What would we know - the parents have been far from forthcoming with things that actually make sense.

Hearsay with nobody actually quoted, but may be something in this?

 

[Fierljepper]

But she would have only left a scent if she had walked the route. Say she was carried. Why couldn't the dogs have n picked up the freshest scent or strongest which might have been the abductor . or maybe it was Maddie being carried all be it weaker

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For moment you had me thinking that Maddie was carrying her abductor...

 

[gord]

Sorry I did not understand this.

Can you say it a bit clearer?

What I meant was if she was carried couldn't the dogs have maybe picked up the freshest scent which was abductor in some way. ( if we assume a carried Maddie left no scent )

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[Fierljepper]

It seems it is true what you are saying carrying a child= no scent to track.

This was discussed a lot on some forums which don't exist any longer.. there was a guy whose job was to deal with such dogs, the search dog specialist, he is the one who said that.. that she had to be walking and that this would be her freshest route.

If that is the case, then in any abduction scenario, in which she MUST have been carried, we can simply ignore the dog trails.

What then remains open is that Maddie walked out of the apartment, but... why were the windows and shutters then found open? So, that scenario of Maddie sleep walking and running in the arms of the wrong guy, doesn´t make any sense.

Hence, the only logical conclusion is then that the dog tracks were traces from the afternoon return trip from the pool (unless of course we involve the McCanns in nightly walks with Maddie).

 

[gord]

I would still like to clarify for sure that a carried child cannot leave a scent if fresh.

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[jigzy]

But if this truly was a white wash involving both police forces etc then why on earth re open everything yet again. They did the hard work years ago shutting the case. It makes no sense to open yet again just to deliberatelyshut it.

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Because the McCanns did not come out of it smelling of roses. There was still a whiff of disbelief; proof right here on various fora, still debating the dogs, leaving children alone, abductor theory versus the parents dunnit, big cover up involving those in high authority. Still we don't shut up and move on to other crimes to armchair sleuth. The deeper we look the closer we get to bringing others down too, and THAT has to be stopped.

The McCanns, and those entwined in this sorry mess, will never really be able to move on with their lives unless there is closure, even if it does mean that the fund dries up when there is no longer the need to LOOK for Madeleine (not as if that happened anyway) as it will probably be revealed that the body will have been dumped at sea, or some other unrecoverable place.

Everyone is saying the right stuff: we are looking for an alive Madeleine, the parents are totally not involved, blah, blah. Then lo and behold Tractorman is the nasty guy whodunit, and he's dead so cannot tell. Closure...move on and write a book about it.

Jmo.

 

[haden]

What I meant was if she was carried couldn't the dogs have maybe picked up the freshest scent which was abductor in some way. ( if we assume a carried Maddie left no scent )

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That would be it if the dogs were given the abductors piece of clothing.

But they were in fact given Madeleine's blanket which she held while sleeping.

I could not find anything on 'tracking dogs' but I remember seeing that these Portuguese dogs are 4th in the world in resque operations.

These specific dogs are the ones that sniff the ground.. and are used immediately after someone is missing and they need to be places in the 'last known place' and be given the piece of clothing of the person.

So, the handlers did all of this, the dogs are applied only few hours after Madeleine went missing and they were given her piece of clothing.. and they went around the building and to the parking lot.

 

[haden]

TRAILING DOGS

The trailing dog is often referred to as a "tracking" dog, although "tracking" and "trailing" are not the same to the purist. The trailing dog is directed to find a specific person by following minute particles of human tissue or skin cells cast off by the person as he or she travels. These heavier-than-air particles, which contain this person's scent, will normally be close to the ground or on nearby foliage, so the trailing dog will frequently have its "nose the ground," unlike the air scent dog.

A Bloodhound is typically trained for scent discrimination. Each dog is usually worked in a harness, on a leash, and given an uncontaminated scent article (such as a piece of clothing) belonging to the missing person. The dog follows that scent and no other. At times, the dog may track, following the person's footsteps, or air scent, and home in on the subject's scent.

http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

 

[gord]

Because the McCanns did not come out of it smelling of roses. There was still a whiff of disbelief; proof right here on various fora, still debating the dogs, leaving children alone, abductor theory versus the parents dunnit, big cover up involving those in high authority. Still we don't shut up and move on to other crimes to armchair sleuth. The deeper we look the closer we get to bringing others down too, and THAT has to be stopped.

The McCanns, and those entwined in this sorry mess, will never really be able to move on with their lives unless there is closure, even if it does mean that the fund dries up when there is no longer the need to LOOK for Madeleine (not as if that happened anyway) as it will probably be revealed that the body will have been dumped at sea, or some other unrecoverable place.

Everyone is saying the right stuff: we are looking for an alive Madeleine, the parents are totally not involved, blah, blah. Then lo and behold Tractorman is the nasty guy whodunit, and he's dead so cannot tell. Closure...move on and write a book about it.

Jmo.

But it hasn't stopped any speculating in fact it is worse . The case is back on the front page forums going wild . All the old theories back . No this is not a cover up . I do believe that the LE are trying to break this case and find the truth . They might fail and it will simply be it. If this was a true white wash it would not have seen the light of day

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[haden]

To me this is even laughable if it wasn't tragic !