Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 21

[Barnaby]

From yesterdays Telegraph....

Portuguese police have insisted they will solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.



It doesn't sound to me that the Policia Judiciaria are struggling as some ppl would like to think, in fact they sound like they know something and are hot on the trail.:woohoo:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/16/nmaddy116.xml


Faro police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao, who is in charge of coordinating the investigation into the missing girl, has brushed off criticism of his force.
He insisted the to insist the case was moving forward.

Madeleine McCann investigators have been locked in a war of words with the four-year-old's parents and their press spokesman Clarence Mitchell following the leaking of the couple's police statements.
Last week Mr Mitchell demanded an inquiry into how the McCanns' witness statements - given shortly after their daughter vanished - had been leaked and claimed it was another attempt to smear the couple.
In a rare public statement, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) then criticised Mr Mitchell for his "baseless intervention".
Dr Encarnacao, speaking after a meeting between public prosecutors and police who travelled to Britain for fresh interviews with the McCanns' holiday friends, said: "Everything's going well.
"The inquiries carried out in the UK are progressing in the best way possible."
He said the police were not "vulnerable to pressure" from any party involved.
"The investigation will bring its results, whoever they hurt."
The pledge came as a clairvoyant claimed Madeleine McCann died in an accident.

I think this line is very meaningful:

"The investigation will bring it's results, whoever they hurt"

You know it is amazing that the McCanns have been in conflict with the police from the early days! These people are investigating trying to find out what happened to madeleine, they should be working together with the same aim if the parents have nothing to hide!

Now I know I will get the reply here but the PJ bungled the investigation, fouled up the crime scene etc. etc. etc. That is not the point they are still the McCanns best shot at finding the truth if they don't already know it & I totally agree with you Pickle I think they know a lot more than we think they know & I do think they know already what happened to Madeleine, they are just making a watertight case because of the high profile the McCanns have created for themselves!

 

[Barnaby]

Very interesting article posted by Colomon in the Portugese Press thresd

...................

Kate's deposition to detectives

Portimão PJ to sue McCann's spokesman

The declarations of Kate McCann reminding a conversation with her daughter Maddie the day she disappeared, concerning the fact that the day before she left her crying in the bedroom, are not part of the official process of the Criminal Police, as it was discovered by the CM. They were reproduced by the Spanish television Telecinco and the journalist Nacho Abad says he has proof that they are true ' but they will be clarifications made by Kate to private detectives.

The process still remains in secrecy of justice but "the day it will be open to the public it will be easy to prove that those declarations are not there" said a source close to the investigations. Therefore, this leak could never have come from the PJ.

"The day that that situation will be duly clarified" Clarence Mitchell will be sued by damages caused against the image of elements of the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão, after being "unjustly accused" by the McCanns spokesman of passing informations of the process to the media.

The British police also know that those declarations of Kate, about her relationship sometimes difficult with her daughter are not in the process. When the Spanish channel reproduced them a delegation of the PJ was in Leicester to hear the McCann's friends and the British authorities confirmed that it was a deposition made by Kate to private investigators. It is a company that worked for the couple before Método 3 and in the end printed a report with those sentences. According to our sources, only 3 parts have copies of those documents: the company, the McCanns and the British authorities.

The problems with the international press continue and yesterday the Telegraph advanced declarations of Guilhermino Encarnação after a meeting with the prosecutor quoting him saying that the "case will be solved whoever it hurts". Source close to the responsible of the Faro's PJ guarantees to the CM that none of this is true.

Details

ASFIC supports the process

Contacted by the CM, the president of the PJ Union, Carlos Anjos, guarantees that "all legal support is available" in case the investigators of Portimão want to sue Clarence Mitchell, spokesman of the McCanns, by damages against the image of the department.

Reconstruction

Carlso Anjos believes that the controversy created around Kate's declarations, with accusations to the PJ by the eventual leak of information that discredits the couple, "is a mere artifice to avoid cooperation with the Portuguese justice". The PJ wants to reconstruct the crime but according to the couple spokesman this will only happen if they stop being arguidos.
Henrique Machado

 

[april4sky]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...-mccann-say-portuguese-police-89520-20385633/

Faro police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao promised the investigation would "bring results, whoever they hurt".

But the president of Portugal's Bar Association criticised the police investigation and said his country's legal system was out of date.
Antonio Marinho e Pinto said: "They have reached a dead end and don't know how to admit it."
******
The PJ are still spinning. ​

 

[Barnaby]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...-mccann-say-portuguese-police-89520-20385633/

Faro police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao promised the investigation would "bring results, whoever they hurt".

But the president of Portugal's Bar Association criticised the police investigation and said his country's legal system was out of date.
Antonio Marinho e Pinto said: "They have reached a dead end and don't know how to admit it."
******​

The PJ are still spinning. ​

& how exactly would the President of the Bar Association be privvy to police information?

Imteresting post which may explain:
http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5525&sid=0779d10cbe3e44ba876537ec6e404e42&start=1380

Questions to be raised from that last 24Horas report: Why is nobody on this thread asking how has Marinho Pinto, the new President of the Portuguese Bar Association, become involved in this case? And why is he saying that the PJ have arrived at a dead end in the investigations?

Also what is Marinho Pinto's relationship to Rogerio Alves, who was president of the Portuguese Bar Association when Madeleine was first reported "abducted." Obviously they are colleagues on the board of their professional association, as president and past-president, but Alves is one of the two Portuguese lawyers working on the defence of Gerry and Kate McCann. Could he be enlisting Pinto's help for the defence?

 

[april4sky]

& how exactly would the President of the Bar Association be privvy to police information?

Imteresting post which may explain:
http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5525&sid=0779d10cbe3e44ba876537ec6e404e42&start=1380

Questions to be raised from that last 24Horas report: Why is nobody on this thread asking how has Marinho Pinto, the new President of the Portuguese Bar Association, become involved in this case? And why is he saying that the PJ have arrived at a dead end in the investigations?

Also what is Marinho Pinto's relationship to Rogerio Alves, who was president of the Portuguese Bar Association when Madeleine was first reported "abducted." Obviously they are colleagues on the board of their professional association, as president and past-president, but Alves is one of the two Portuguese lawyers working on the defence of Gerry and Kate McCann. Could he be enlisting Pinto's help for the defence?

I don't believe he said he was privvy!!
But being President of the Bar Association he is in the best position to know the system...and it's failings.:waitasec: He knows what he's talking about. :clap: And I don't believe he would critisize his own police without good reason.

Sorry Barnaby but IMO the 3arguedos is just a nasty malicious blog. And definately not somewhere I would look for the truth. :waitasec:

 

[colomom]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2136926&postcount=251

Very important statement:

The PJ says they "deplore the intervention of the spokesman, particularly at a time when significant steps were made in the research." The president of ASFIC goes further. "Finally it is known where the truth is. While the PJ fulfilled their duty to investigate what happened to the child, the spokesman of the parents was manipulating the public opinion," he accuses.

Sounds like the interviews were very productive.

 

[Barnaby]

I don't believe he said he was privvy!!
But being President of the Bar Association he is in the best position to know the system...and it's failings.:waitasec: He knows what he's talking about. :clap: And I don't believe he would critisize his own police without good reason.

Sorry Barnaby but IMO the 3arguedos is just a nasty malicious blog. And definately not somewhere I would look for the truth. :waitasec:

Whatever, you think about the 3A's
(& it is very wrong to criticise people who are chatting about the case just like here because of genuine concern for that little girl. There, as here, people have differing views on the subject)
you cannot take away from the fact that the previous President of the Bar Association is now the McCann's lawyer!
Whatever the views of Marinho Pinto on the Portugese police, at this point he is not directly involved in the case & I am quite sure he is no more privvy to secret information on how it is progressing than you or I are!

He certainly implied that he was privvy when he made the statement to that they had reached a dead end!

 

[colomom]

I don't believe he said he was privvy!!
But being President of the Bar Association he is in the best position to know the system...and it's failings.:waitasec: He knows what he's talking about. :clap: And I don't believe he would critisize his own police without good reason.

Sorry Barnaby but IMO the 3arguedos is just a nasty malicious blog. And definately not somewhere I would look for the truth. :waitasec:

I don't mean to be argumentative April but, how do you know this to be true?

What can you tell us about Marinho Pinto? His credentials? His integrity?

As far as criticizing the police, that's what lawyers do when they are building a case. I do not have as much faith in this man as you do.

Another thing, a blog is a personal opinion website, usually set-up and controlled by one person. Most of the information posted is strictly controlled by the author.

The 3A's is not a blog. It is a forum, like this one. It is open to anyone to post and express their views. If you read it thoroughly you would find that there are quite a few people that post there that are defending the McCanns every day.

Just an FYI.

 

[april4sky]

I don't mean to be argumentative April but, how do you know this to be true?

What can you tell us about Marinho Pinto? His credentials? His integrity?

As far as criticizing the police, that's what lawyers do when they are building a case. I do not have as much faith in this man as you do.

Another thing, a blog is a personal opinion website, usually set-up and controlled by one person. Most of the information posted is strictly controlled by the author.

The 3A's is not a blog. It is a forum, like this one. It is open to anyone to post and express their views. If you read it thoroughly you would find that there are quite a few people that post there that are defending the McCanns every day.

Just an FYI.

Colomom, regarding Marino Pinto. When I said he knows what he's talking about..I should have added IMO.
And though lawyers may be critical when building a case as far as I am aware he's not involved in this case. He is entitled to give a personel opinion.
And as for his opinion...my opinion of his statement still stands.

I assume his credentials got him his job.
I know of no reason to question his integrity. Do you?
I do however question the integrity of some of the PJ. :waitasec:

Everyone who makes a statement that isn't pro PJ is immediately dismissed. I wonder why!! Even when they are part of the Portuguese establishment.

As for the 3Arguedo's...same again. My opinion was mainly formed by the links provided here. I wasn't impressed then, or the few times I have read there.

 

[april4sky]

you cannot take away from the fact that the previous President of the Bar Association is now the McCann's lawyer!

Barnaby it's hardly fair to question his integrity because the previous President is now the McCanns lawyer.

Whatever the views of Marinho Pinto on the Portugese police, at this point he is not directly involved in the case & I am quite sure he is no more privvy to secret information on how it is progressing than you or I are!

He may not be involved in this case..on either side! But he must know the system and all it's failings better than any of us!

He certainly implied that he was privvy when he made the statement to that they had reached a dead end!

He didn't imply being privvy to anything. He just gave his opinion critisizing the PJ on how they are handling this case.

 

[Barnaby]

Barnaby it's hardly fair to question his integrity because the previous President is now the McCanns lawyer.He may not be involved in this case..on either side! But he must know the system and all it's failings better than any of us!
He didn't imply being privvy to anything. He just gave his opinion critisizing the PJ on how they are handling this case.

He did not give his opinion, he stated it as a fact!
"They have reached a dead end and don't know how to admit it."

So if he is not privvy to inside information then he is making assumptions & stating them as fact which I would have thought a barrister would know better than to do!

How can you question me questioning his integrity when you criticise en masse the integrity of members posting on another forum?

 

[april4sky]

He did not give his opinion, he stated it as a fact!
"They have reached a dead end and don't know how to admit it."
So if he is not privvy to inside information then he is making assumptions & stating them as fact which I would have thought a barrister would know better than to do!
How can you question me questioning his integrity when you criticise en masse the integrity of members posting on another forum?

Barnaby we can go back and forth on "fact" verses "opinion"....I have my opinion..and you have yours!:waitasec:
And again..."We"...can go back and forth on the critisism issue..can't we?

 

[ThoughtFox]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2136926&postcount=251

Very important statement:

The PJ says they "deplore the intervention of the spokesman, particularly at a time when significant steps were made in the research." The president of ASFIC goes further. "Finally it is known where the truth is. While the PJ fulfilled their duty to investigate what happened to the child, the spokesman of the parents was manipulating the public opinion," he accuses.

Sounds like the interviews were very productive.

Thanks, colomom! I'm finally understanding what this "leak" was about. In other words, the McCanns leaked a statement made to their own private detectives and then said the Police leaked it. How lame is that?

How much longer do they think they can play hide and go seek? I think the circle is getting smaller all the time, and the reason the "truth" is getting out is that someone in the Tapas group has a conscience, or finally told the truth in spite of themselves.

 

[Texana]

How much longer do they think they can play hide and go seek? I think the circle is getting smaller all the time, and the reason the "truth" is getting out is that someone in the Tapas group has a conscience, or finally told the truth in spite of themselves.

Let's hope so. I have yet to hear a credible explanation for why Jane Tanner's account and the resulting sketches varied so much over time.

 

[colomom]

Thanks, colomom! I'm finally understanding what this "leak" was about. In other words, the McCanns leaked a statement made to their own private detectives and then said the Police leaked it. How lame is that?

How much longer do they think they can play hide and go seek? I think the circle is getting smaller all the time, and the reason the "truth" is getting out is that someone in the Tapas group has a conscience, or finally told the truth in spite of themselves.

I agree TF that the pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. It is entirely possible that someone in the inner circle has provided some information to the PJ which enabled them to confirm their suspicions. That "leak" being from the PJ made no sense to me. There is no good reason for them to "leak" anything. Even coming from the McCann's investigators, it is a bizarre way to make their clients "look better". I think I probably don't really understand what they were trying to accomplish.

Due to the complicated mess this case has become, hide and seek is becoming a very dangerous game to play. Oh, what a tangled web...

The statements that I have seen lately have given me a ton of hope that we will know what happened.

Forget about everyone else in this ridiculousness and think only of Maddie. Everything I do here, I do for her.

 

[Barnaby]

I agree TF that the pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. It is entirely possible that someone in the inner circle has provided some information to the PJ which enabled them to confirm their suspicions. That "leak" being from the PJ made no sense to me. There is no good reason for them to "leak" anything. Even coming from the McCann's investigators, it is a bizarre way to make their clients "look better". I think I probably don't really understand what they were trying to accomplish.

Due to the complicated mess this case has become, hide and seek is becoming a very dangerous game to play. Oh, what a tangled web...

The statements that I have seen lately have given me a ton of hope that we will know what happened.

Forget about everyone else in this ridiculousness and think only of Maddie. Everything I do here, I do for her.

I agree Colomom! I think that the pieces have already fallen into place for the PJ. I think that is why Ribeiro went home from UK early, he had all he needed!
If this was not the case I think he would have stayed to complete all of the interviews.

You are a wonderful advocate for justice for Madeleine, Colomom!

 

[cushty]

I think a lot of the puzzles surrounding the behaviour of the McCanns arise from a determination to win hearts and minds

it is not enough for them to stay out of the clutches of the Portuguese judicial system - they also seek high profile careers as international representatives in the field of children's charities

they have adopted the personas of wronged but resolute parents and will do anything to retain them

they will not, and cannot, IMO, admit to any kind of wrongdoing

 

[colomom]

A very interesting article I saw on 3A's:

http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/1018a.html

 

[Barnaby]

A very interesting article I saw on 3A's:

http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/1018a.html

Not only interesting but very accurate observations!

Thanks for posting Colomom!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

A very interesting article I saw on 3A's:

http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/1018a.html

Well written. Thanks for the link.


Reading that makes me just want to cry. Poor Madeleine, and just as bad, poor Sean and Amelie. Those 2 little children will never have a normal life...if they make it that long. :furious: