Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 21

[colomom]

You know I was going to quote & reply to all the posts that have been made since I was last here but it would be a huge post so decided against it! Sufficient to say that I totally agree with everything that Texana, Salem, Colomom, Thoughtfox, Roughlycollie & Teacherbees have said in the preceding posts & Texana, sorry I have searched for a link to the programme & cannot find a working one, I will keep looking!

I have just one thing to say to anyone who can still support the McCanns in any way! This may be unpleasant & if Mods wish to delete it that is fine!
I would ask them to stop for a minute & think what it would be like to be raped, I think I am safe to presume that all are adults here! So as an adult just think how horrific it would be to be raped then murdered!
Bottom line is most pedophiles who abduct children rape them, then murder them! Think of the terror! Now apply that to a 4 year old! A 4 year old child who hasn't a clue what is happening, hasn't a hope in hell of fighting back & who is agonisingly ripped apart then murdered by whatever means, none pleasant that's for sure! Think of that child's terror!
Now defend her parent's actions to me if you can!

The cruel & callous decision that the McCanns made to leave their child after knowing that she cried for them the night before faciltated whatever happened to Madeleine! Her horror is their fault, end of!

If Gerry thinks that someone took this child to treat her like a princess he is sorely deluded & you know what, it is actually kinder to think that she died quickly in an accident then to dare to think of what she suffered at the hands of a pedophile! She was 4 years of age for God's sake, the chances are that if she was abducted she was raped before being killed! Noone abducted her for anything else!

How a parent of a child who may have suffered this fate could act as the McCanns did in PDL last May - make up, jewellery, smiles, grins, jogging, no tears etc. etc makes them not even human!

They caused this by callously leaving her alone to her fate! Nothing that anyone says in their defence will ever change this! Only a mother totally devoid of any parental instinct could have made this decision! If that child was abducted & the McCanns are innocent of her death then they are even more responsible for her horrible dastardly fate!

How they can continue to have the audacity to show their faces in public never mind spin their revolting crap on TV amazes me, they should be hiding their bloody heads in shame! They may not have killed their daughter directly, which I am not convinced of but they sure as hell made it easy for whoever did! They may as well have handed her over! I hope their night of carousing was worth it!

I ask anyone who supports them & who at the same time has kids or any regard for kids - if this was your daughter would you look so well in pics? Would you go buy clothes, jewellery, have your hair done & laugh with your husband or would you be tormented by thoughts 24/7 of what may have happened to your flesh & blood?
Look at them on television, do they look like tormented people to you? Only answer to that is NO!
They are demented sociopaths & I am ending now because even typing this is making me feel ill!
Shame on you Gerry & Kate McCann!

WOW, Barnaby...that was powerful. Powerful and entirely true. You GO girl, you say what is weighing heavy on your heart. I hear your pain!!

~hugs~
:blowkiss:

 

[Texana]

Thanks, Barnaby, for keeping up looking for the link. I appreciate the compliment on my posts as well. :blowkiss:

I agree with you, I think Madeleine is suffering no longer, whatever happened that night. We can all be grateful for that, perhaps, if that is true.

Colomom, I think there comes a time when we all have to step back a bit to save our sanity. As much evil and heartbreak exists in our world, there is still good. (in the immortal words of Anne Frank, "Despite everything, I still believe people are really good at heart.") Let us stay motivated to do our best, rise above our own selfish natures, and reach out to each other.

Maybe later, we can put our heads together and figure out a way to help other children in the name of Madeleine.

But for tonight, when as you said, the sun is rising on a beautiful little Portuguese resort town, let us all say a prayer for Madeleine McCann, where ever she is, and for the people who loved her and knew her, and for those who never knew her, but loved her all the same.

 

[ThoughtFox]

*Hugs* Colomom! :blowkiss: We all need time away - some of the recent news stories have made me question alot of things about civilization and evil, too. It's hard to not close our eyes and minds to such horror, but sometimes we have to face it.

And sometimes horror is alot more subtle, unfortunately, and those are almost more difficult to take.

But you wouldn't like the doctors at the hospital to bungle the job of fixing you up would you? :waitasec:

This is how I see that:

If I had let my children play out in the road when they were toddlers Madeleine's age, they might have been hit by a car.

It is against the law to run over a child, and the police don't like to see that, but it is not their fault if it happens. It is the parent's fault for letting the kid play in the road when they are too young and innocent to know the dangers, and too small to run away.

If that had happened to my child and told the cops here in the U.S. that it "wasn't a decision really" and that I had "felt as safe as a backgarden" letting my child play in the road, they would probably take me in for a psychiatric exam or drug test. Seriously.

Luckily, I'm in my right mind, and never let my toddlers near the road - we also have a fence just in case they ever got out the door. Plus the gate on the fence was kept closed so no big dogs could get in and bother the kids. Those are safety measures for children too small to protect themselves, and yes those were conscious decisions.

If a parent is neglectful, you can't blame the police.
If someone leaves a door opened so a kidnapper can go in and steal children, it is not the fault of police.

 

[colomom]

Lest we forget.....

Correio da Manhã, 2 May 2008, 10h00

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/notici...hannelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=702&page=25 Post & 366 & 371

Blood marks the death

They aren't enough to condemn the McCanns. They are only miniscule vestiges, whose genetic profile is frighteningly close to Madeleine's. The definitive results are now in Portugal, as are the final analysis of the biological and synthetic residues sent to the National Institute of Legal Medicine (INML) headquartered in Coimbra.

For many investigators, the proof is sufficient, but the truth is that in court it could create doubt. And in a case like this, which also concerns the credibility of our authorities, all the care in the world is not enough.

The definitive exam results have been with PJ for some months and indicate a high degree of similarity between the blood in the McCann's car and that of Madeleine. The same comparisons were made with the vestiges detected in the apartment rented by the English [couple] and where the child, then three years old, disappeared without a trace.

One year later, the impasse in the investigation continues. Without a cadaver or confessions it will continue to be possible for the child's parents to create doubts [in court]. Not because of the quality of the vestiges, but because of the method used in their collection. "The vestiges were not visible to the naked eye and it was necessary to use the 'low copy number'. What that means is that genetic profiles were extracted from all the people that left vestiges in that place. We are not dealing with contamination of the samples, but the possibility, mostly academic, that someone with an identical genetic profile combined with all the others," affirmed a source within the process to CM.

In addition, Corte Real, responsible for the genetic analysis at INML, told CM that there are no perfect DNA fits.

In addition, Corte Real, responsible for the genetic analysis at INML, told CM that there are no perfect DNA matches. Without referring specifically to this case, the specialist reiterated that 99.99% results are valid, almost standalone, in paternity suits. "If we are talking about cases where various genetic profiles were collected then the results are lower [than 99.99%]."

"Maddie is missing" (Gerry and Kate McCann, Maddie's parents, to SIC TV)

- How has this past year been?

Kate: I spend the entire day with Sean and Amélie. It has been very difficult, but I continue to believe that Maddie is alive.

Gerry: It was by far the most difficult year. We continue to be motivated by the strong possibility that she is alive.

- Do your younger children continue to ask about their sister?

Kate: They talk about her every day. She is part of their lives. At times it is difficult, other times touching. She is part of their lives.

Gerry: I believe that if Maddie returned home today they would react normally ... they are very little, and don't yet ask questions. At this point, they just know that Maddie is missing.

Kate: We can only tell them the truth when we know it.

Gerry: They have the notion that they last saw Maddie in Portugal. They think that if they go back, they'll find their sister.

NOTES

18 Interviews

Yesterday, Maddie's parents gave 18 interviews to the media.

Message to the Abductor

"All we want is Madeleine back and you can free yourself of this situation," says Gerry.

The Apartment

In apartment 5a at the Ocean Club vestiges of blood were found, whose DNA is similar to Maddie's. One of the vestiges was behind the sofa.

The Car

The discovery of vestiges in the car rented after the disappearance mandated the about-face of the investigation. The exam results caused the parents to become arguidos.

Tânia Laranjo

 

[colomom]

A 12 page (PDF file) supplement to the Portugal Resident:

http://www.portugalresident.com/portugalresident/pdf/Madeleine_McCann_SUPPLEMENT.pdf

 

[Barnaby]

For the past 12 months I have been incredibly angry at two parents who neglected a precious little girl. As dawn breaks on the 3rd May, the one year anniversary of her disappearance all I can feel is an overwhelming sadness & tears flow freely for this little girl!

Madeleine you were dealt an unfair blow in life, you were born into a family that did not cherish & protect you! You should have known life, you should have been allowed to grow up & have children of your own! My heart breaks for whatever you suffered, I hope it was not much, I hope you were not too afraid & I hope you are now with the angels who will cherish you as you deserve!
I wish you could have been mine & I would have loved you as I love my own! I thank God every day for my two precious children & I never regret loving & valuing them daily!
May God forgive the people who did this to you & who were responsible for letting it happen!
Sleep well little angel!

 

[Barnaby]

WOW, Barnaby...that was powerful. Powerful and entirely true. You GO girl, you say what is weighing heavy on your heart. I hear your pain!!

~hugs~
:blowkiss:

Hugs to you also Colomom & to all my friends here who have felt this little angels pain for the last year & who have strived for justice for her.

Today is painful for all of us who care but I hope there is no more pain for Madeleine & she is now in a much better place.


:blowkiss: to all whom I am proud to call friends here! They know who they are!

If anything good was to come out of this diabolical situation then it is that good people have chosen to meet here to speak out in the face of the evil that is in this world today & to seek justice for a little 4 year old who didn't have a choice!

God bless you Madeleine!

 

[Barnaby]

Lest we forget.....

Correio da Manhã, 2 May 2008, 10h00

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/notici...hannelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=702&page=25 Post & 366 & 371

Blood marks the death

They aren't enough to condemn the McCanns. They are only miniscule vestiges, whose genetic profile is frighteningly close to Madeleine's. The definitive results are now in Portugal, as are the final analysis of the biological and synthetic residues sent to the National Institute of Legal Medicine (INML) headquartered in Coimbra.

For many investigators, the proof is sufficient, but the truth is that in court it could create doubt. And in a case like this, which also concerns the credibility of our authorities, all the care in the world is not enough.

The definitive exam results have been with PJ for some months and indicate a high degree of similarity between the blood in the McCann's car and that of Madeleine. The same comparisons were made with the vestiges detected in the apartment rented by the English [couple] and where the child, then three years old, disappeared without a trace.

One year later, the impasse in the investigation continues. Without a cadaver or confessions it will continue to be possible for the child's parents to create doubts [in court]. Not because of the quality of the vestiges, but because of the method used in their collection. "The vestiges were not visible to the naked eye and it was necessary to use the 'low copy number'. What that means is that genetic profiles were extracted from all the people that left vestiges in that place. We are not dealing with contamination of the samples, but the possibility, mostly academic, that someone with an identical genetic profile combined with all the others," affirmed a source within the process to CM.

In addition, Corte Real, responsible for the genetic analysis at INML, told CM that there are no perfect DNA fits.

In addition, Corte Real, responsible for the genetic analysis at INML, told CM that there are no perfect DNA matches. Without referring specifically to this case, the specialist reiterated that 99.99% results are valid, almost standalone, in paternity suits. "If we are talking about cases where various genetic profiles were collected then the results are lower [than 99.99%]."

"Maddie is missing" (Gerry and Kate McCann, Maddie's parents, to SIC TV)

- How has this past year been?

Kate: I spend the entire day with Sean and Amélie. It has been very difficult, but I continue to believe that Maddie is alive.

Gerry: It was by far the most difficult year. We continue to be motivated by the strong possibility that she is alive.

- Do your younger children continue to ask about their sister?

Kate: They talk about her every day. She is part of their lives. At times it is difficult, other times touching. She is part of their lives.

Gerry: I believe that if Maddie returned home today they would react normally ... they are very little, and don't yet ask questions. At this point, they just know that Maddie is missing.

Kate: We can only tell them the truth when we know it.

Gerry: They have the notion that they last saw Maddie in Portugal. They think that if they go back, they'll find their sister.

NOTES

18 Interviews

Yesterday, Maddie's parents gave 18 interviews to the media.

Message to the Abductor

"All we want is Madeleine back and you can free yourself of this situation," says Gerry.

The Apartment

In apartment 5a at the Ocean Club vestiges of blood were found, whose DNA is similar to Maddie's. One of the vestiges was behind the sofa.

The Car

The discovery of vestiges in the car rented after the disappearance mandated the about-face of the investigation. The exam results caused the parents to become arguidos.

Tânia Laranjo

I will never forget Colomom as I know that you & most here will not either!

May God forgive those responsible for what happened to this precious little girl!

May he reveal the truth so that we may all move on & may he reveal her remains so that she may be given a Christian burial in accordance with the faith that she was born into!

 

[Barnaby]

Not aware that the cameras were still rolling! Smiles & laughter all round!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7380419.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVUnMtW9ciI

Also very obvious body language! Gerry is not holding kate's hand hers is on top of his! He is not open to her!

 

[Taximom]

Sorry to barge in, but did anyone see 20/20 tonight (10 e.s.t ABC) highlighting this case? I missed it but hoped the eagle-eyes here would watch and dissect it. It should be on shortly on the west coast, right?

 

[colomom]

The 20/20 show tonight (watching now) appears to be the ITV documentary,
pretty much same ole', same ole'....

Lots of emotion/crying but haven't seen a single tear, man, that irks me. And the shaking her thing is downright scary.....

 

[colomom]

Taximom,

I am hoping that they will have the complete 20/20 show available online after the broadcast. It is hard to "dissect" it because it is so much of the same propaganda that has been out there all these months....

Not much new....

They briefly (and I mean briefly) mention the dogs. With no explanation as to why we should discount their findings. Just a quick mention and on to the next.....

 

[Salem]

Creeps you out, doesn't it?

Have you watched the BBC video clips yet? I'm curious to see how they strike you.

Yes, the comment does creep me out. What was he thinking. I did finally watch the videos. It's weird. In the SkyNews interview, the whole time a video of Maddie is playing and never ONCE, not one time, did they look at that video. And then, when Kate is saying, "we need to find her" she kind of flicks her head and rolls her eyes, like she is reminding herself that she has to put the focus on Maddie and she restates it as "Madeleine needs us to find her."

They both appear to be very uncomfortable about the reconstruction. They complain that it will be a media circus and of course, they are not the only ones involved. Others have been asked to attend also....... so if they don't go, why should the McCanns?????? Does that make sense? Kate also wants to be assured that additional info will come from it. They were both scared of the question about "are you not returning because you may face charges?" Gerry changes the subject.

Kate - saying "if Madeliene had not be abducted, we would never have given the comment another thought" regarding Maddie asking where they were the night before. Boggles the mind.

I do give Gerry some credit at the end, when he says "we made that decision and we can't change it" because he acknowledges that they did make the decision.

The follow up videos Part I and II were basically a repeat of the longer one. Skynews must have happened first. In Part I, it appears to me that Kate is very defensive. She doesn't want to "keep going over it" when asked about why they left the children. And she repeats the "never given it another thought" in response to Maddie crying.

Gerry's comments about "kids cry" infuriate me. Yes kids cry and parents COMFORT them.

In the second two videos, the body language between Kate and Gerry changes also, in my opinion. Along with K's defensiveness, there appears to be a certain "hostility" towards Gerry. I'm not sure hostility is the right word, but I definitely see some anger there, in the way she moves her head and holds her sholders.

I haven't watched the long video yet. Maybe tomorrow.

So many posts today - you guys had me in tears. Barnaby - I share your prayer that Maddie will be found and that she is not suffering and that where ever she is, that she is safe and loved.

So many times over this last year, I was sure they would find her. In the field, at the barn, in the dam search. When we all were all sharing the feeling that she was close and any minute the news would break. But, here we are, one year later, and still no Maddie.

Something good comes from everything. I believe this, I have to, to maintain my sanity. If Europe gets an Amber Alert because of Maddie's disappearance, then we know that it was not in vain. We all know that the US's amber alert has saved many children. So one in Europe has the potential to do the same. Does it bother me that it is K&G that are advocating for it? You BET! Ticks me off to put it mildly. But the reality is, the end result will help to protect a great number of children and for that we should be grateful. I also try to keep in mind that the European amber alert was on the table well before the world heard of K&G. And the turning point in its passage will be because of Maddie, NOT K&G.

If nothing else, a legacy for a bright, beautiful little girl.

Prayers to Maddie and all of you!

Salem

 

[ThoughtFox]

I looked around online for a transcript of the Sky News Intervew and haven't found one yet, so I typed up the part about Madeleine crying and what they thought of that.
YouTube Video

Transcript, Sky News Interview, Part 2,
May 1,2008

Starts at 5:11 on the YouTube video:

Kate: Madeleine made a comment in passing "Where were you when I cried?" - not just to Mummy by the way - just generally. It seemed a bit odd, I mean, a very kind of passing remark. She doesn't usually wake up, and if she woke up she must have fallen back to sleep really quickly, um . . . and then , she moved on, you know, she moved on . . .

Gerry: Anybody with young children will understand that children cry, they wake up at night and they cry. During that week there was one night - and we can't give too much detail because that's part of the investigation - but there was one night when Madeleine had come to and one of the other twins was crying, so when she did mention this to us and we asked her about it and we thought she was completely fine - we thought - Was it when they were in the bath or getting them, you know, first putting them down in that period that they are really tired? Of course with hindsight, in the context of what's happened, of Madeleine being abducted, it's been put in a very different light, and it's put in a very different light for us, and of course once we emphasized to the police --

Kate: (Interrupting Gerry) If Madeleine hadn't been abducted - If Madeleine hadn't been abducted, we'd never have thought of that comment again. You know, it's only in hindsight, you know, which is a wonderful thing, you think "I wonder if it's relevant?" and that's the reason we told the authorities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Here is what I think of that: I truly think this passage alone tells you all you need to know about the McCanns as parents, and notice how they say they did not take it seriously when Madeleine told them that she cried - they don't see that as a problem because they've convinced themselves that she was "fine, fine" because they needed everything to be fine.

And Kate assumes that if Madeleine woke up, it was only for a short time and then fell asleep again - how could she know that? She says that it was "odd" for Madeleine to wake up, and Gerry mentions how tired they usually are "when they first fall asleep." I have three kids and started babysitting kids when I was fourteen. The time when they "first fall asleep" is usually the time when they are most likely to wake back up, or get out of bed. It's an odd thing to say.

That is magical thinking so you can rationalize leaving kids alone. They are both projecting their own wishes onto Madeleine and assuming that everything will happen as they plan it, instead of listening to her as a human being who is unpredictable.

They need her to stay asleep, and they don't want to hear about anyone crying, and even if she wants to tell them, they need her to "move on from that."

What's most shocking to me is that they don't seem to understand how this all sounds, even after a year of interviews and things being misconstrued. Especially Kate, because indeed, if Madeleine hadn't been abducted (or whatever happened to her) I completely believe that Kate wouldn't think about her crying remark because it just didn't fit with what a perfect little child should do, so it's to be dismissed as odd.

And the McCanns repeated the crying remark to the police because they don't see why their view should be considered wrong, yet they are clueless about how normal parents act - that's the only thing I can come up with. A parent should always care if their child is crying - Madeleine was being honest, not odd. Who else should care if your parents don't?

 

[april4sky]

Good point April, so if you wouldn't want to go to the hospital in Portugal, Mexico or Cuba because their medicine is not quite up to England's, Germany's or the US's standards, why would you put the lives of innocent babes in the hands of the foreign police force?

Salem

I'm glad you agree I had a good point Salem But I don't believe I ever said anything about not wanting "if needed" hospital treatment in any country, nor did I question the standard of any country's health standards.
Believe me if I needed hospital treatment in any country I would be grateful to receive it.
Salem I can understand you thinking Portugal because of the connection, but where on earth did Mexico and Cuba come into this.:waitasec: :waitasec:

I do think you have misunderstood my post.
I won't quote Texana in case I get it wrong but if you check her post #420 as well as my post # 422 I think you will see in what context PJ/Doctors were mentioned.
Neither of us were questioning the standard of hospital treatment anywhere.

 

[april4sky]

I wouldn't expect them to be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, either.

I saw the tail end of a kidnapping case in Florida that is in the news right now. The young man was kidnapped, ransom paid, and over a month later, he's still not returned home safely (and no proof he's alive.) The FBI and presumably much better LE that the Portuguese has been involved, and yet, no happy ending.

The truth is, everything could have been done right and Madeleine still (if truly abducted) not returned safely. The police are never the perfect fix-it guys.

I don't see how the Portuguese police could be blamed for doing less to protect Maddie, for money, than the McCanns did to protect her for love.

Side note: Kate consistently repeats how "safe" the resort felt. From where did that safe feeling come? Those bungling Portuguese police. How did they ever manage to make the resort and the town feel so nice and safe for all those British tourists?

Texana doing a professional job cannot always guarantee "sadly" a happy outcome. But I would expect professional police to do a professional job no matter what the circustances of a child going missing.
Madeleine deserves no less IMO.

 

[SleuthMom]

Anybody with young children will understand that children cry, they wake up at night and they cry.

Yes Gerry, but thank God most of us would comfort our babies when they wake up crying in the middle of the night. Where were you and your wife?

 

[SleuthMom]

I saw the interview in 20/20 last night and I was disappointed to once again have to hear how much they have suffered because they were made arguidos and how mean people were to them and that's why they had to leave Portugal. A lot of emotion but not real feeling (in MY opinion). Gerry once again describing the distance between the apartment and the restaurant as very short.

 

[Barnaby]

Texana doing a professional job cannot always guarantee "sadly" a happy outcome. But I would expect professional police to do a professional job no matter what the circustances of a child going missing.
Madeleine deserves no less IMO.

It's so easy to blame - blame the buggy, blame the complex, blame the police, blame the kids being tired, blame everyone but the McCanns!

 

[teacherbees]

Yes Gerry, but thank God most of us would comfort our babies when they wake up crying in the middle of the night. Where were you and your wife?

And thank God most of us would be deeply saddened and upset at the image of our child crying alone in the night while we were off partying. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, instead of minimizing the crying and saying it must've only lasted a bit of time, we'd be kicking ourselves as we pictured our baby girl crying out for comfort. The thought of our child being alone and scared for even a few minutes would be enough to make us change our behavior radically.

Gerry's "came to" comment is signifcant. I am coming to believe they drugged the children. Madeleine woke up anyway, was impaired in her movements as a result of the drugging and hurt herself while trying to find Mommy and Daddy. The McCanns couldn't take her for help because it would come out that they drugged their children..and/or because she was too gravely injured to explain away.

I literally couldn't keep watching the show last night. What I did see showed crafted (dry-eyed) emotion and words - and still little regard for the horror of what their little girl suffered because of their selfish, stupid actions.