Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[Mex]

Talk is cheap. It remains to be seen what actually happens and whether CB is charged with anything related to MM.

I don't think the German prosecutors are in any rush to indict anyone in the McCann case until the situation regarding the prosecution of the five outstanding cases is resolved.

They would be off their heads to even contemplate it at present
My opinion

Snip
In a statement, the prosecutor in Braunschweig, Germany, said: "The investigation concerning the case of Madeleine McCann is ongoing separately from these charges.
"Due to the ongoing investigation the prosecution cannot at the current time give any
information on the status of that investigation."

Madeleine McCann suspect charged with separate sex offences

The key suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine is charged in Germany over unrelated offences.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[frank-cole]

I don't pretend to understand the rationale behind the two anonymous rape cases but they did meet the lawful criteria to support indictment.
But as far as the other three indictments are concerned I have seldom seen more compelling supporting evidence. FF devalues the evidence in all five cases - then he would say that wouldn't he? he may indeed see it like that for real in which case one should reach one's own conclusions as his are not sound.
My opinion

Agree. Regarding the 2 additional rape cases, IMO there must be more evidence attached to them. The assumption that the prosecutors have cherry-picked cases with no evidence & then tried to make them stick is absolute nonsense IMO. If that was the case CB would be up for multiple murders & for wiping out the dinosaurs.

The chance of conviction must outweigh the chance of acquittal.

I think Fulscher is unknowingly echoing CB’s guilt via the way he’s running the cases. He’s preoccupied with technicalities & loopholes, he’s not brought anything forward that challenges any of the evidence in any meaningful way. The counter-argument is that he’s waiting for the very last seconds of trial to unveil his big blockbuster reveal to turn this drama full circle. But IMO in reality, if he had real evidence that could eliminate CB as a suspect he’d had shared it & had CB eliminated as a suspect.

 

[Okapi]

I think that the technicality tactics do nothing to undermine the strength of the case on the five separate charges. They were ready to go. If they are delivered by another prosecution team, they are still essentially ready to go. The jurisdiction detour is literally a jurisdiction detour. It may result in a fancy new jail as well as a new court.

I also echo pp in thinking that whatever happens with the MM case, and yes, he deserves a fair trial, let’s not pretend that CB is a paragon of virtue. CB is a convicted rapist and paedophile, who has been found guilty of CSA, and procuring CSA. He will always be a danger to children. To say nothing of the threat he poses to women. He will always need to be monitored, restricted and registered as a CSA sex offender. My own opinion.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Agree. Regarding the 2 additional rape cases, IMO there must be more evidence attached to them. The assumption that the prosecutors have cherry-picked cases with no evidence & then tried to make them stick is absolute nonsense IMO. If that was the case CB would be up for multiple murders & for wiping out the dinosaurs.

The chance of conviction must outweigh the chance of acquittal.

I think Fulscher is unknowingly echoing CB’s guilt via the way he’s running the cases. He’s preoccupied with technicalities & loopholes, he’s not brought anything forward that challenges any of the evidence in any meaningful way. The counter-argument is that he’s waiting for the very last seconds of trial to unveil his big blockbuster reveal to turn this drama full circle. But IMO in reality, if he had real evidence that could eliminate CB as a suspect he’d had shared it & had CB eliminated as a suspect.

My opinion too.
Although in Sep.2020, hearing FF about CB and seeing his posture in Sexta às 9 to SF, IMO, it easily suggests how is FF perception on CB's and his past crimes, potential next charges, how alone FF could be, trying to explore what's left in technicalities.
Aligned to what you refer, IMO FF is empty in substrate to support CB defence with evidence.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I think that the technicality tactics do nothing to undermine the strength of the case on the five separate charges. They were ready to go. If they are delivered by another prosecution team, they are still essentially ready to go. The jurisdiction detour is literally a jurisdiction detour. It may result in a fancy new jail as well as a new court.

I also echo pp in thinking that whatever happens with the MM case, and yes, he deserves a fair trial, let’s not pretend that CB is a paragon of virtue. CB is a convicted rapist and paedophile, who has been found guilty of CSA, and procuring CSA. He will always be a danger to children. To say nothing of the threat he poses to women. He will always need to be monitored, restricted and registered as a CSA sex offender. My own opinion.

...danger to children...
...need to be monitored...

Obviously!
But does anyone really believe that a delay due to jurisdiction detour / residence issue will get charges dropped?! Could he really get free by 2026?! More, knowing his past record, his profile? More, in Germany? LOL IMO many many doubts that this could be real.

 

[Davieson]

I'm quite sure he will stand trial for at least some of the charges, but one or two might be viewed as weak by a different prosecutor and not be pursued. Quite rightly, we haven't seen any actual evidence so cannot judge how things will go in court.
I assume that as the charges are not related to one another, it will mean separate trials.

 

[enquirer6]

I think that the technicality tactics do nothing to undermine the strength of the case on the five separate charges. They were ready to go. If they are delivered by another prosecution team, they are still essentially ready to go. The jurisdiction detour is literally a jurisdiction detour. It may result in a fancy new jail as well as a new court.

I also echo pp in thinking that whatever happens with the MM case, and yes, he deserves a fair trial, let’s not pretend that CB is a paragon of virtue. CB is a convicted rapist and paedophile, who has been found guilty of CSA, and procuring CSA. He will always be a danger to children. To say nothing of the threat he poses to women. He will always need to be monitored, restricted and registered as a CSA sex offender. My own opinion.

Good post.

I would add one point.

Herr Fulscher has achieved one thing, not thwarting justice, but delay, if that can be counted as an 'achievement'.

 

[frank-cole]

...danger to children...
...need to be monitored...

Obviously!
But does anyone really believe that a delay due to jurisdiction detour / residence issue will get charges dropped?! Could he really get free by 2026?! More, knowing his past record, his profile? More, in Germany? LOL IMO many many doubts that this could be real.

I think the simplest hypothesis is the right one. If the cases get moved, he’ll be prosecuted for the 5 crimes in the relevant district.

I can understand some of the rational reservations. The longer it takes the more time we have to speculate! But IMO some of the alternative scenarios have become a tad more far fetched than one normally sees on a websleuths forum.

One element of this topic that strikes a cord with me is that a glancing observer may not be able identify the right person as the dangerous criminal. The hostility towards HCW is eclipsing that of CB. I think any potential new spokesperson will receive hostile & negative reactions IF they working on any case involving the names MM & CB.

 

[Lyall0814]

I think the simplest hypothesis is the right one. If the cases get moved, he’ll be prosecuted for the 5 crimes in the relevant district.

I can understand some of the rational reservations. The longer it takes the more time we have to speculate! But IMO some of the alternative scenarios have become a tad more far fetched than one normally sees on a websleuths forum.

One element of this topic that strikes a cord with me is that a glancing observer may not be able identify the right person as the dangerous criminal. The hostility towards HCW is eclipsing that of CB. I think any potential new spokesperson will receive hostile & negative reactions IF they working on any case involving the names MM & CB.

There is no hostility towards HCW here. As far as I've seen nothing has been said about him personally here. Maybe this happens in other online locations, I don't know. I hope not. But it doesn't happen here.

 

[Lyall0814]

There may have been the odd bit of satirical commentary about him (can't deny I've done it myself) but that's not hostility. That's fair comment about someone who's been sent out there as the public face of the investigation.

 

[frank-cole]

There may have been the odd bit of satirical commentary about him (can't deny I've done it myself) but that's not hostility. That's fair comment about someone who's been sent out there as the public face of the investigation.

I beg to differ, I do feel some sympathy for him but I doubt any social media commentary reaches or affects somebody like him.

You make a good point about him being the face of the investigation. Do you think people’s opinion on the case has an influence on the way they perceive HCW?

It would be interesting to map out pre-2020 opinions together with opinions of the prosecutors &/or BKA (post the 2020 appeal to now). IMO it sometimes seems like - Thought it was an abduction = no issue with HCW &/or BKA. Thought it was similar to how Amaral described it = issues with HCW &/or BKA.

I think sometimes our biases influence our opinions on the prosecution & the defence. Quite natural & adds to the polarising public opinion of the case.

 

[Lyall0814]

I beg to differ, I do feel some sympathy for him but I doubt any social media commentary reaches or affects somebody like him.

You make a good point about him being the face of the investigation. Do you think people’s opinion on the case has an influence on the way they perceive HCW?

It would be interesting to map out pre-2020 opinions together with opinions of the prosecutors &/or BKA (post the 2020 appeal to now). IMO it sometimes seems like - Thought it was an abduction = no issue with HCW &/or BKA. Thought it was similar to how Amaral described it = issues with HCW &/or BKA.

I think sometimes our biases influence our opinions on the prosecution & the defence. Quite natural & adds to the polarising public opinion of the case.

I'm sure you're right about pre-2020 opinions being a big influence on us but really most disagreement about the current investigation is surely because we don't really understand the German justice system and we have little or no idea about what's going on now or what's going to happen. We're all just speculating imo. But I don't think we've been talking all that much about HCW have we? We do when he's said something but that's natural. What he says from time to time is the only clue we ever get about what's happening. But everyone knows he's just one of the prosecutors.

Personally I think most issues here in the discussion are caused by some of us mostly talking about the MM investigation (which is primarily what the thread is for) and others mostly about the other five charges. That's what causes most misunderstandings imo

 

[Okapi]

I'm sure you're right about pre-2020 opinions being a big influence on us but really most disagreement about the current investigation is surely because we don't really understand the German justice system and we have little or no idea about what's going on now or what's going to happen. We're all just speculating imo. But I don't think we've been talking all that much about HCW have we? We do when he's said something but that's natural. What he says from time to time is the only clue we ever get about what's happening. But everyone knows he's just one of the prosecutors.

Personally I think most issues here in the discussion are caused by some of us mostly talking about the MM investigation (which is primarily what the thread is for) and others mostly about the other five charges. That's what causes most misunderstandings imo

Fair point Lyal, in that the prosecution has established more evidence for the five charges than appears to be so for the MM case. The German legal system has also been an education!

Still, a lot of what we know about CB’s lifestyle and proclivities would hold for discussion about MM.

It’s also hard to unravel the other five charges, as they were uncovered and built as a result of the MM investigation and they are pending court subject to the jurisdiction resolution.

HaB is on record as saying that it is only thanks to the McCanns’ momentum behind the investigation into their child’s disappearance that her own case has seen the light of day.

 

[Okapi]

I think the simplest hypothesis is the right one. If the cases get moved, he’ll be prosecuted for the 5 crimes in the relevant district.

I can understand some of the rational reservations. The longer it takes the more time we have to speculate! But IMO some of the alternative scenarios have become a tad more far fetched than one normally sees on a websleuths forum.

One element of this topic that strikes a cord with me is that a glancing observer may not be able identify the right person as the dangerous criminal. The hostility towards HCW is eclipsing that of CB. I think any potential new spokesperson will receive hostile & negative reactions IF they working on any case involving the names MM & CB.

I agree with you, Frank. At times it seems as if HCW and the BKA are the subject of these latter threads. I almost want to bring back the canines

I appreciate there Is frustration at the ambiguity of HCW’s statements and the tardiness of the MM investigation. I can’t disagree with it.

But at the end of the day, fine words butter no parsnips, and the prosecution has to produce the goods. I sincerely doubt that the federal police are accommodating a one-man show with a Gollumish fixation on the MM case. As you say, he’s the public face of a team investigation. Just my thoughts.

 

[Mex]

I agree with you, Frank. At times it seems as if HCW and the BKA are the subject of these latter threads. I almost want to bring back the canines

I appreciate there Is frustration at the ambiguity of HCW’s statements and the tardiness of the MM investigation. I can’t disagree with it.

But at the end of the day, fine words butter no parsnips, and the prosecution has to produce the goods. I sincerely doubt that the federal police are accommodating a one-man show with a Gollumish fixation on the MM case. As you say, he’s the public face of a team investigation. Just my thoughts.

I have never felt the least frustration with the fact that HWC has to be very careful about the statements he is able to make.
It is not to be expected that he will impart information about the active MM investigation. ('Gollumish' is a new word for me, I'm sure I'll find a use for it)

Similarly I never fail to be astonished at the rancour displayed that confidential evidence has not been put on public display - which quite often translates into the accusation that there is little or none.

These demands are not expected of any other police investigations and they should not be of this one.
My opinion

 

[Megnut]

I agree with you, Frank. At times it seems as if HCW and the BKA are the subject of these latter threads. I almost want to bring back the canines

I appreciate there Is frustration at the ambiguity of HCW’s statements and the tardiness of the MM investigation. I can’t disagree with it.

But at the end of the day, fine words butter no parsnips, and the prosecution has to produce the goods. I sincerely doubt that the federal police are accommodating a one-man show with a Gollumish fixation on the MM case. As you say, he’s the public face of a team investigation. Just my thoughts.

I myself am glad to be alive if only to read "fine words butter no parsnips". That is a delightful turn of phrase and I can't wait to use it!

 

[Lyall0814]

I have never felt the least frustration with the fact that HWC has to be very careful about the statements he is able to make.
It is not to be expected that he will impart information about the active MM investigation. ('Gollumish' is a new word for me, I'm sure I'll find a use for it)

Similarly I never fail to be astonished at the rancour displayed that confidential evidence has not been put on public display - which quite often translates into the accusation that there is little or none.

These demands are not expected of any other police investigations and they should not be of this one.
My opinion

Of course they should, they're public servants. But as it happens apart from a few folks online nobody is asking these investigators anything. So don't panic.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree with you, Frank. At times it seems as if HCW and the BKA are the subject of these latter threads. I almost want to bring back the canines

I appreciate there Is frustration at the ambiguity of HCW’s statements and the tardiness of the MM investigation. I can’t disagree with it.

But at the end of the day, fine words butter no parsnips, and the prosecution has to produce the goods. I sincerely doubt that the federal police are accommodating a one-man show with a Gollumish fixation on the MM case. As you say, he’s the public face of a team investigation. Just my thoughts.

For me it is more than frustration

I simply can't countenance a prosecutor accusing someone of murder, saying they have the evidence to bring charges, then 3 years later, they didn't bring them.

I get few people care in this particular case because the accused is a horrifying sex offender, but it strikes me this precedent can be wildly misused. Especially so that law enforcement can simply accuse people of crimes based on secret evidence, then not charge them.

If you think my concerns are too abstract, please see the Wirecard case where German Financial prosecutors effectively accused 2 FT journalists of corruption, based on false accusations from a fraudster, despite having done no investigation to verify the veracity of the complaint.

This is why we never place trust in prosecutors merely saying "yes I have all the evidence which I am keeping secret'. We require open justice, and charges are laid in court, not in the media.

Braunschweig are correctly under pressure to justify their public claims, in open court. The idea we shouldn't require this is foreign to me.

 

[RichardKimble]

The role of the investigation should be to gather all the evidence and let the story emerge, not to come up with the story and then go looking for whatever evidence might fit.

 

[Lyall0814]

The role of the investigation should be to gather all the evidence and let the story emerge, not to come up with the story and then go looking for whatever evidence might fit.

Was it yourself who mentioned Dostoyevsky the other day? The original investigation does seem a little bit like one from one of his books. Good call whoever it was.

Here's where the misunderstandings arise though. Folks will think we're criticising the efforts that brought the other five cases to court, when we're not. It's perfectly possible for competent, and very competent, investigative work to have been carried out elsewhere simultaneously with the original investigation turning out to be a tunnel-visioned mess. Some of us thought that it likely was way back in 06/20 of course.