Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #13

[21merc7]

Yes, that's very well put. Each ATC has a specific territory in which it controls traffic.

ATC's job is to organize traffic in its area. If a plane stops talking and vanishes off ATC radar, ATC can't do anything beyond keep calling for it, alerting nearby planes, and notifying the airline it has no contact.

MH-370 vanished from both Malaysian and Vietnamese ATC radar. It stopped talking.

At that point, it was up to the pilots and the pilots alone to save the plane.

Now, entirely separately, if Thai/Malaysian military radar watchers had been more alert, maybe they could have scrambled fighter jets to try to approach the wandering plane and see what was up.

The evidence released so far says each failed to do so.

Okay, we understand that, the general idea.

Can you explain in technical terms exactly what is happening? Yes, we like details, computer code lol, break down in detail.

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think its anything quite that extreme. I think the photos were taken by commercial satellite on the 16th. It took a few days before they saw the potential debris in the photos, they transmitted to Australia who had their guys look at the photos. They wanted to be as sure as possible before sending assets out that far into the ocean and/or raising hopes the plane had been found. By the time the search craft get out there, the debris has likely sank.

3 Quotes.

I am asking can you explain ATC in simple terms. How is that all shut down, so no one sees 777
The rest we know, no communication, shot down in certain areas.
Fuller understanding of how is ATC not working is the question.

Thanks in advance,

FinneganBeginAgain

re If a pilot doesn't respond and a plane vanishes off radar, ATC is powerles
I do not ever remember reading an ATC (unless tech) wherein a ATC is not getting a response. then vanishes does not do anything for 2 hours

If it was reported to MAL then there are , again many quesions, as to what everyone was doing for two hours

before releasing to the world that a jumbo jet I MIA.
Unless there is a need to get some ducks in order before going public it makes no sense

The first night < it took me while to figure out what time cause of not checking out time zone that first night if Thai/Malaysian military radar watchers had been more alert








Exactly in most places, the first thing any ATC would do is contact miliatary radar folks and say MAL 370 just dropped for us do you have him ? Instantly!

 

[trigger]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/lt-gen-mcinerney-i-think-the-mh370-passengers-may-be-alive-i-think-the-plane-landed-video/

My apologies if this has already been discussed, but Gen. McInerney makes some *very* interesting points.

Thank you for this video. I believe this could be true. General McInerney is so right on, imo. Wow

 

[ToutCa]

Yes, but what I think Gen. McInerney does know is that there is a whole lot more to this than what is being released publicly, and that the US govt is keeping very quiet, while removing the navy ship from the Indian Ocean search, and while Israel is beefing up their security.

All we've got anyway are a few puzzle pieces. I think it's wise to not discount any of the puzzle pieces, but hold on to them and wait and see if they could possibly fit.

Frankly, there's no evidence Gen. McInerney knows any more than the rest of us.

He's retired. He states he's basing his theories on rumors from unnamed contacts and sources he can't reveal. That sounds like speculation and hearsay to me.

The silence of the US government is normal for an ongoing investigation of a foreign airplane disappearing in foreign territory. It doesn't necessarily signify anything at all.

Likewise, in a situation of a possible terrorist event unfolding, Israel would have beefed up its security whether it knows extra info or not.

The plane may well be on land somewhere in unfriendly hands, but none of the afore-mentioned acts are evidence for it.

As of now, the complete mystery of MH-370's final fate endures.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Malaysia's Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein has asked for undersea surveillance equipment in a phone call with US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel. The request on Friday was a general one for help in locating the wreckage and black box, and Mr Hagel was considering it, the Pentagon said.

The US Navy has a variety of active and passive sonar systems, some of which search the ocean for objects by emitting sound "pings" and monitoring the echoes that bounce back, and others that listen for sound like an undersea microphone.

The US military loaned sonar technology to France during its two-year effort to locate the black box from an Air France jetliner that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean in June 2009.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/239529/malaysia-requests-sonar-for-jet-search

 

[kalekona]

Yes, but what I think Gen. McInerney does know is that there is a whole lot more to this than what is being released publicly, and that the US govt is keeping very quiet, while removing the navy ship from the Indian Ocean search, and while Israel is beefing up their security.

All we've got anyway are a few puzzle pieces. I think it's wise to not discount any of the puzzle pieces, but hold on to them and wait and see if they could possibly fit.

As a former Navy wife whose husband sailed these very waters the USS Kidd is not the only ship in the area and honestly I believe it was pulled from the search for 2 reasons-there are other Navy assists that are better suited to this kind of search and the other has to do with Russia and the timing of redirecting the Kidd.

No we are not being told every detail from any country- it is to sensitive an area and no one wants to give up their edge by advertising their capabilities.

I think whatever happened the fact that neither Malaysia or Vietnam noticed that the plane was missing for hours is why we are still looking and chasing out tails.

I want to believe they are searching where they are because of very positive information because I want the families and the world to start getting answers- but I have always believed the plane went North that is the logical direction if someone highjacked the plane.

But perhaps the simple answer is it was shot down my accident and no one wants to admit they did it.

 

[ArianeEmory]

3 Quotes.

I am asking can you explain ATC in simple terms. How is that all shut down, so no one sees 777.

The rest we know, no communication, shot down in certain areas.

Fuller understanding of how is ATC not working is the question.

Thanks in advance,

FinneganBeginAgain

Not any of the original posters nor all that air traffic knowledgeable myself, but I think this is a pretty simple deal. ATC = Air Traffic Control. They can sit in their tower and monitor the information the plane is sending out via various methods (such as the transponder). But if the pilots stop talking and the transponder is off, there's nothing they can do, they are effectively blind and deaf to the plane (I guess unless it is nearby, and on radar).

Imagine you're on a long road trip with your cellphone and an OnStar system. If you turn off your phone and turn off the OnStar system, you're still driving along but:

a) we don't know where you are (unless you happen to physically drive right past us) because you turned off the system that helps locate you and navigate (in the car scenario, the OnStar system)

b) we don't have the ability to talk to you since you turned off your phone

So you can still cruise along but no one can talk to you or help you navigate (or even know where you are, unless we get lucky).

 

[21merc7]

verreaction:

Aaarrggh!

English is my native language by birth and all that. Really, I speak alien to everyone everywhere, a lifetime of inability to relate simple things!

Frustrated with lack of ability to communicate in simple terms as usual.

I'll figure it out on my own.

The point is:

The Plane Stopped Communicating.

Not b/c the news said it is on purpose. An issue in the plane. What could that issue be?

(oh, I don't know how to ask questions clearly, I am an alien.)

 

[ilovepierre]

Are there any upcoming World/World Leader/Western major events planned in the near future that anyone is aware of?

The G8 Summit is coming up June 4-5.
It'll be in Sochi, though.

40th G8 summit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ilovepierre]

verreaction:

Aaarrggh!

English is my native language by birth and all that. Really, I speak alien to everyone everywhere, a lifetime of inability to relate simple things!

Frustrated with lack of ability to communicate in simple terms as usual.

I'll figure it out on my own.

The point is:

The Plane Stopped Communicating.

Not b/c the news said it is on purpose. An issue in the plane.

I get what you're saying.
You're saying that the plane stopped communicating because there was some sort of malfunction in the plane-not because communications were intentionally cut.

 

[Nymeria]

Malaysia's Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein has asked for undersea surveillance equipment in a phone call with US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel. The request on Friday was a general one for help in locating the wreckage and black box, and Mr Hagel was considering it, the Pentagon said.

The US Navy has a variety of active and passive sonar systems, some of which search the ocean for objects by emitting sound "pings" and monitoring the echoes that bounce back, and others that listen for sound like an undersea microphone.

The US military loaned sonar technology to France during its two-year effort to locate the black box from an Air France jetliner that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean in June 2009.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/239529/malaysia-requests-sonar-for-jet-search

Bill Nye was on CNN telling them to do this on like day 3!
Why oh why does no one listen to Bill? :facepalm:

O/T- I love Bill Nye!

 

[ArianeEmory]

I get what you're saying.
You're saying that the plane stopped communicating because there was some sort of malfunction in the plane-not because communications were intentionally cut.

Granted, I only skim the headlines on this lately and I only check the thread a few times a day, but I thought the various types of communication appeared to be manually cut off--and at different times, at that. Is there new information contradicting that?

 

[21merc7]

Bill Nye was on CNN telling them to do this on like day 3!
Why oh why does no one listen to Bill? :facepalm:

O/T- I love Bill Nye!

:whistle: My DD liked Bill Nye the Science Guy!

 

[21merc7]

I get what you're saying.
You're saying that the plane stopped communicating because there was some sort of malfunction in the plane-not because communications were intentionally cut.

I am asking if that is possible, yes.

(Thank you!)

 

[ToutCa]

Okay, we understand that, the general idea.

Can you explain in technical terms exactly what is happening? Yes, we like details, computer code lol, break down in detail.

Not sure if this is what you are asking for, but:

-- MH-370's transponder went off. Once the transponder was off, no civilian ATC could see the plane on radar.
-- MH-370 stopped communicating by radio to all ATC's at the same time.
-- Therefore, Vietnamese and Malaysian could not contact MH-370 or see it on radar. They had no idea where it was, if it had a problem, and what its condition and intentions were.
-- Until and unless MH-370 re-contacted them or turned its transponder on again in their area, they could do nothing more than alert Malaysian Airlines the plane had disappeared.

It's as simple as that.

 

[Tiepos]

Sadly, speaking with certainty is not a sign of telling the truth.

All the "experts" view the MH-370 disappearance through a personal lens often tailored to promote their own agendas. We should critically analyze any claim made by any of them.

Given the limited information known, the "experts" that deserve the most consideration are those who allow for multiple possibilities for the plane's fate.

Worth repeating. It’s too bad there isn’t some automated feature that would insert this message after every 15th post or at least every 15th time the word “expert” is detected. :laughitup:

 

[JerseyGirl]

As a former Navy wife whose husband sailed these very waters the USS Kidd is not the only ship in the area and honestly I believe it was pulled from the search for 2 reasons-there are other Navy assists that are better suited to this kind of search and the other has to do with Russia and the timing of redirecting the Kidd.

The Navy ship that has been helping search for the missing Malaysian airliner is dropping out of the hunt, U.S. military officials said Monday.

The Navy's 7th Fleet determined that long-range naval aircraft are a more efficient means of looking for the plane or its debris, now that the search area has broadened into the southern Indian Ocean. Long-range Navy P-3 and P-8 surveillance aircraft remain involved in the search, Cmdr. William Marks, a spokesman for the 7th Fleet, said in an emailed statement.

The decision was made in consultation with the government of Malaysia.

The USS Kidd, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer that has been searching in the Indian Ocean, will return to its normal duties.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...t-search-uss-kidd-to-return-to-normal-duties/

 

[ArianeEmory]

I am asking if that is possible, yes.

(Thank you!)

I'm going on info that is days (or a week) old, but they originally reported that several different systems were shut down, seemingly manually and individually (at different times). i.e., it really looked intentional. (Personally, this was the specific piece of info that made me start looking seriously at the story as something other than "plane lost at sea, internet goes crazy with conspiracy theories".)

It's not like it was just one switch that was flipped; or, in the case of failure, like one single piece of equipment could have failed and caused the same (staggered) effect.

(If this is incorrect or there is new overriding info, someone please feel free to correct me, I'm hardly even a lurker at this point.)

 

[21merc7]

Not sure if this is what you are asking for, but:

-- MH-370's transponder went off. Once the transponder was off, no civilian ATC could see the plane on radar.
-- MH-370 stopped communicating by radio to all ATC's at the same time.
-- Therefore, Vietnamese and Malaysian could not contact MH-370 or see it on radar. They had no idea where it was, if it had a problem, and what its condition and intentions were.
-- Until and unless MH-370 re-contacted them or turned its transponder on again in their area, they could do nothing more than alert Malaysian Airlines the plane had disappeared.

It's as simple as that.

Not what I am trying to ask, I know this much, but thank you.

I am asking:

What could go wrong with the plane to make that happen? Not pilots making it happen, or news saying pilots made it happen.

 

[ilovepierre]

I am asking if that is possible, yes.

(Thank you!)

A fire could cause all communications to be cut.
A short in the wires in any one of the devices could cause it as well.
A blown fuse.
Any sort of technical malfunction, really.