Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #2

[Waddles]

bbm

So they had working passports. They weren't being held against their will. They were not in Iran. If not terrorists, then they weren't on a 'no fly' list. Why the fake passports, then? That's alot of money and alot of risk --- unless for a good reason.

It seems to happen a lot more than we think. The desire for a new life in a new country of opportunities is greater than the risk. I read an article yesterday saying about 130 people had entered the US on stolen passports and got away with it between 1998 and 2004

 

[Little Jedi]

MH370 detected above Malacca Straits at 2.40am

'Air Force chief Rodzali Daud is quoted as saying that based on military radar readings from its station in Butterworth, MH370 may have turned west after Kota Bahru and flew past the east coast and Kedah. "The last time the plane was detected was near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am," Berita Harian quotes Rodzali as saying.'


http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-detected-above-malacca-straits-2-40am-062617741.html

 

[TTF14]

Could someone dumb this down for me? (Sorry if it's been asked and answered; can't find it).

What would be the motive/need for two men to use fake passports to "migrate" to Europe when they had, and used, their real Iranian passports just a week prior? I don't get it. Why would they need to do that?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

bbm

So they had working passports. They weren't being held against their will. They were not in Iran. If not terrorists, then they weren't on a 'no fly' list. Why the fake passports, then? That's alot of money and alot of risk --- unless for a good reason.

Because they wanted to start a new life in Europe. One of their mums was waiting for him at Frankfurt airport in Germany and has confirmed she knew he was entering illegally and on a fake passport. In some circles it's probably just the way of doing things to bypass immigration. Hopefully, now, this will signal the end of such practices but a new way will follow I'm sure. I suspect Mr Ali may have some hand in this, if not him then someone else will have sold the passports to them with the promise of a better life in Europe.

I wonder though why the men weren't flying out of Bangkok if they were already in Thailand.

 

[belimom]

... Iranians seeking asylum in Europe

the two men had traveled to Malaysia from Tehran using Iranian passports, but had secured stolen Italian and Austrian passports in Kuala Lumpur for their journey to Beijing and Amsterdam, for which both had tickets and planned to travel together.

Nourmohammadi planned to proceed from Amsterdam to Frankfurt, Germany, where his mother lives. The woman contacted authorities when her son failed to arrive as planned. The BBC reported that Seyedmohammaderza's intended final destination was Copenhagen, Denmark.

a friend of both men who hosted them at his home in Kuala Lumpur as they prepared to travel to Beijing, the final destination of the missing plane.

It was not made immediately clear how the passports were sent from Thailand to Kuala Lumpur.

it is not uncommon for Iranians to travel to and from Malaysia, or to buy one-way tickets through third parties. They said the fact that the man believed to have purchased the tickets on behalf of two Iranians traveling with stolen passports seemed to be seeking the cheapest fares within a range of dates does not jibe with typical terrorism plots. The sources familiar with Iranian travel patterns also said use of stolen passports is common for those involved in the drug trade, those wanting to study or work abroad and even Iranians who seek political, religious or social refuge.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...n-passports-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-were/

bbm

Okay, now it's a little more believable. Still can't let it go, just yet.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Because they wanted to start a new life in Europe. One of their mums was waiting for him at Frankfurt airport in Germany and has confirmed she knew he was entering illegally and on a fake passport. In some circles it's probably just the way of doing things to bypass immigration. Hopefully, now, this will signal the end of such practices but a new way will follow I'm sure. I suspect Mr Ali may have some hand in this, if not him then someone else will have sold the passports to them with the promise of a better life in Europe.

I wonder though why the men weren't flying out of Bangkok if they were already in Thailand.

Probably because the passports they were using were in KL. The news agency said that they are unsure as to how the stolen passports got from Thailand to KL.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-03/11/c_133178020.htm

Media reports saying Malaysia has ruled out hijacking, mid-air disintegration and radar malfunction as possible reasons behind missing flight MH 370 are false, the Chinese Embassy in Malaysia told Xinhua Tuesday.

 

[Little Jedi]

How did the plane disappear from radar on one side of Malaysia, and then end up hundreds of miles away on the other side of Malaysia?

Even if the transponder went off (unlikely, but...), seems like the plane would be visible on radar.


???

If the report by the 'fisherman' is correct it seems it dropped below the radar.
That would explain the latest reports.

 

[belimom]

Could someone dumb this down for me? (Sorry if it's been asked and answered; can't find it).

What would be the motive/need for two men to use fake passports to "migrate" to Europe when they had, and used, their real Iranian passports just a week prior? I don't get it. Why would they need to do that?

I think it's sinking in. They would've needed visas to stay. With EU passports, they could enter/stay without a visa. correct?

 

[belimom]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-03/11/c_133178020.htm

Media reports saying Malaysia has ruled out hijacking, mid-air disintegration and radar malfunction as possible reasons behind missing flight MH 370 are false, the Chinese Embassy in Malaysia told Xinhua Tuesday.

So that leaves.... pilot responsibility? Either intentional or not?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It seems to happen a lot more than we think. The desire for a new life in a new country of opportunities is greater than the risk. I read an article yesterday saying about 130 people had entered the US on stolen passports and got away with it between 1998 and 2004

I bet it's more like 130 a week in some countries!

Hopefully now there will be some kind of aviation law passed which makes it compulsory for passports to be checked with Interpol.

Anyway. It would appear the stolen passports thang will turn out to be irrelevant and of no consequence to what happened, I am doubtful these two lads had anyting to do with the demise of the plane. At least we've had something to keep us occupied though eh? And at the very least highlighted an immigration problem to the worlds media, hope something good comes of it in terms of protocol and procedures.

 

[belimom]

I think it's sinking in. They would've needed visas to stay. With EU passports, they could enter/stay without a visa. correct?

Quoting myself but here you go - the countries that Iranians can enter with no Visa.

Interesting that in 2013 Malaysia changed their Visa on Arrival program for Iranians, due to the number of Iranians entering Malaysia then going on to Australia illegally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Iranian_citizens

In 2014, Iranians can travel to 45 countries visa-free, or with visa on arrival. Malaysia has revoked the VOA scheme for Iranians.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think it's sinking in. They would've needed visas to stay. With EU passports, they could enter/stay without a visa. correct?

Correct. As an EU passport holder one has access to other EU countries with no or few questions being asked, we are lucky to have relative freedom to travel around our little continent but actually, I would rather they tightened things back up again a little bit!

 

[dotr]

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/http-res-cloudinary-com-gawker-media-image-upload-v13-1540981190

"Tomnod has launched a crowd sourcing effort, in searching for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370. The Boeing 777-200 has now been missing over 72 hours without a trace. While speculation and theories abound, it couldn't hurt to have a few thousand extra pairs of eyes to help out on the search"


http://www.smh.com.au/world/search-...o-crowdsourcing-for-clues-20140311-34ja9.html

"Users can zoom in on each satellite image and drop a pin if they see anything that they believe could be wreckage. An algorithm will find where there is overlap in the tags - spots where multiple people have found something of note.

Expert analysts will then examine the tags to identify the top ten or so most notable areas and share the information with authorities.

"We'll say 'here are our top ten suspicious or interesting locations'," Mr Barrington said. "Is it really an aircraft wing that's been chopped in half or is this some other debris floating on the ocean? We may not be 100 per cent sure, but if this is where I had to go pick a location to go looking for needles in this big haystack, this is where I'd start."

The images currently available to search are of the area where the Gulf of Thailand meets the South China Sea. They were taken on Sunday by two satellites.

As the official search area is increased or changed, more satellite images will be made available. Already, an area further north in the Gulf of Thailand will be uploaded to Tomnod in the next 24 hours."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/search-...g-for-clues-20140311-34ja9.html#ixzz2vesfinG3

 

[belimom]

Not sure if this has been posted - I didn't realize that the pilots could turn off the transponder. I think I have a new theory now.

(bbm):

The Malaysia Airlines flight reportedly was being tracked by radar when its transponder went dark. There were no radio transmissions to indicate that anything was amiss aboard the plane. The transponder signals and radio communication are controlled by the pilot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...69f16a-a822-11e3-b61e-8051b8b52d06_story.html

 

[Tssiemer]

Not sure if this has been posted - I didn't realize that the pilots could turn off the transponder (bbm):

I thought that was what happened with 9/11

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Not sure if this has been posted - I didn't realize that the pilots could turn off the transponder. I think I have a new theory now.

(bbm):

But even if the transponder was switched off there are other radar systems based on the ground that could track the aircraft.

 

[popsicle]

So that leaves.... pilot responsibility? Either intentional or not?

I think he hijacked the flight. Or the co-pilot.

 

[belimom]

But even if the transponder was switched off there are other radar systems based on the ground that could track the aircraft.

Not necessarily, it seems, especially if they turned to keep it over the ocean (bbm -there's much more at the link, explaining the radar systems used for tracking):

How does a plane disappear off the radar?

......Therefore, when flight MH370 disappeared from plane tracking websites, it could simply mean the signals from the plane's transponder were stopped deliberately. Another case could be of a complete electrical failure, or the plane disintegrated.

In case of the missing Malaysian plane, the signals are picked up by sites only once a minute and only at a plane’s cruising height above 29,000 feet. So, a dramatic loss of altitude can also see a plane drop off their radar.

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/WO...lane-disappear-off-the-radar-4547145-NOR.html

 

[CoverMeCagney]

A few explanantions here from Sky (and good pictures!)

http://news.sky.com/story/1223758/malaysia-airlines-plane-what-has-happened