Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #8

[Waddles]

No news from the press conference again I wonder how much longer they will be doing them if nothing happens anytime soon. I also worry that the search may be unfortunately scaled down soon because countries aren't going to be willing to spend the money searching long term

I just can't believe that a pilot who cared about the injustice of the opposition leader being arrested for being gay would go ahead and kill 238 people if he cares about democracy so much. Surely this means he cares about other people, peace and fairness.

Does anyone think it may be helpful for a reward to be offered for information which may help the criminal investigation because someone might know something about what has happened?

Yeah that's a really good point re pilot ...

 

[JerseyGirl]

Australia will deploy another two maritime-patrol aircraft to the hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 while the country’s maritime-rescue agency will take over search coordination in the southern Indian Ocean.

Australian Maritime Safety Authority would take the lead in coordinating the search effort in the southern Indian Ocean through its Rescue Coordination Centre, supported by the Australian Defence Force and other contributing agencies. Australia’s maritime rescue zone covers 10% of the world’s surface.

http://stream.wsj.com/story/malaysia-airlines-flight-370/SS-2-475558/

 

[JerseyGirl]

The missing Malaysia Airlines jet may have dropped to altitudes as low as 5,000 feet to avoid radar detection, according to investigators quoted in a Malaysian newspaper on Monday.

"The person who had control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation, and left a clean track. It passed low over Kelantan, that was true," the unnamed officials told the New Straits Times, referring to a state in Malaysia. "It's possible that the aircraft had hugged the terrain in some areas that are mountainous to avoid radar detection."

The technique known as terrain masking was developed by military pilots to fly towards their targets stealthily. By flying close to the ground pilots can avoid radar radio waves.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...-may-have-flown-low-avoid-radar-report-n54331

 

[newone]

Being "crazy" isn't a bad thing but I suppose it skews the results.

average/normal is over rated:blushing:

 

[newone]

The missing Malaysia Airlines jet may have dropped to altitudes as low as 5,000 feet to avoid radar detection, according to investigators quoted in a Malaysian newspaper on Monday.

"The person who had control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation, and left a clean track. It passed low over Kelantan, that was true," the unnamed officials told the New Straits Times, referring to a state in Malaysia. "It's possible that the aircraft had hugged the terrain in some areas that are mountainous to avoid radar detection."

The technique known as terrain masking was developed by military pilots to fly towards their targets stealthily. By flying close to the ground pilots can avoid radar radio waves.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...-may-have-flown-low-avoid-radar-report-n54331

Interesting how these ''news items'' are surfacing now in the wee hours......near as possible (NAP) flying - low tech answer to avoid detection....
guess now would be a great time to invest in radar stocks

 

[Intermezzo]

good morning all
wanted to check in before I start work
I did not post much yesterday but I was able to read here time to time and wish to thank everyone for keeping this thread going strong!

I suppose by the time I get back tonight we will be on thread 9 or 10 LOL keep up the great sleuthing!

And still no sign of MH370....wow..mystery of epic proportion indeed!

 

[JerseyGirl]

THE co-pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was the one who said “All right. Good night”.

Several new theories have emerged to explain how it disappeared and where it currently is, including that it may have been flown to Taliban-controlled bases on the border of Afghanistan and North West Pakistan.

http://www.news.com.au/world/search...no-sign-of-plane/story-fndir2ev-1226856425445

 

[revampz]

the info about it flying low was actually on the news about 8,30 am Australia time...it is now 9.30 pm here....so its not new news, but is very interesting..

whoever flew that plane knew what they were doing.......

 

[newone]

who will volunteer to fly over the assorted....stan countries to search for the plane?

 

[Derryn Hunch]

so happy you're on! Can you break this down so I can understand this?
Flight Management System:

The pilot pre-programs the route of flight or the system uploads it automatically,

The bolded part- where does this system get the upload from? and- when the Captain gets into the plane, has this system already uploaded his flight plan? How hard is it to change this and how long does it take?

Sorry - I've been cooking dinner in between trying to fix the damn internet around this place (its been pretty sketchy since the big storm yesterday)...

Ok... So in relation to the bold part... you're going to find the answer disturbing... in short - yes, it can be remotely uploaded from a secure location, eg, plugged in to the plane, or from ATC tower... but there are fail safes in place to ensure this doesn't happen without pilot knowledge and the data that uploads is checked and re-checked before it would be applied...

It would also fall short in many areas that would need manual input every time.

The standard practice (and I would say this is the case with Malaysian Airlines on this route) is that the crew/pilots as part of their pre-flight would sit and program into this FMC their flight data EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY FLY THE ROUTE... so, waypoints, takeoff data, fuel load, weight and balance of the aircraft, flap settings, altitudes for each leg, landing data (runway length, ATIS if available etc etc).

The reason this would need to be manually checked each and every time is because the weight and balance would be different each time, the landing data and fuel load will vary and a variety of other reasons..

Even if this was automatically uploaded, it would require the crew to approve and apply the data - there is no way around this.

Incorrect data set here can result in a tailstrike (due to aircraft computers calling rotate speed before V1 is actually reached) or an overweight landing... and these are two relatively best case scenarios - basically, the wrong information put in here could be deadly and requires checking and is cross checked by crew.

 

[newone]

after the information has been loaded, can it be changed remotely?

 

[ToutCa]

There has been too much focus on the pilot the last couple days.

As many posters point out, now we know it was the CO-PILOT who said "Alright good night" to ATC in the plane's last communication.

So now we know that at the time of "Alright good night" the CO-PILOT was still alive.

HUGE QUESTION: WHO WAS FLYING THE PLANE AT TAKE-OFF?!
Pilots and co-pilots routinely split duties -- it would be useful to find out if the co-pilot was flying the take-off, or if the pilot was at the controls while the co-pilot handled communication with ATC. If the co-pilot was focused on other duties (communication, etc.), could he be unaware the pilot was switching off ACARS?

There's NO evidence YET of WHO hijacked the plane and if it involved one pilot, both pilots, a team of passengers (with or without a pilot), cyber-hijack, etc.

The hard evidence of what happened to the plane after the 1:19am "Alright good night" is limited to military radar blips and the ACARS pings. That's very, very little. Altitude data, for example, has been conflicting and of uncertain validity.

Almost any spy-novel scenario is possible, but we don't have enough information to judge whose scenarios are more accurate.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

TO follow on from above...

When your sitting at the gate waiting for them to let you walk onto the plane... and you can see the pilots sitting in the cockpit through the windows as you look out at the plane and wish they would "Hurry up!" - what they are most likely doing in there is programming the data into the FMC for your flight...

The First Officer will likely be reading out the data and the Captain will be inputting that into the FMC in the "Command/Readback Confirm" communications manner as I talked about with ATC communications...

 

[sleuthasaurus]

It is so frustrating to see that many of the news reports are now either outright blaming or insinuating that Shah was responsible for taking over the plane. Just because someone has a flight simulator in their home or have a keen interest in something does not a crazy fanatic make. There was no message left either, so good job trying to prove that it was done for political reasons - there was no message. Not at all. By all accounts Shah and his copilot were good guys. There is no evidence aside from his expertise in flying which is his JOB that points the finger at him. It's so bloody disrespectful to his poor grieving family and to the rest of us
I think someone 'ran amok' or tried to take over, and I believe Shah flew the plane far out where they would do the least damage, knowing they would probably crash. But for all we know, it could turn out that this plane was headed for some epic 9/11-like scenario, and he saved a lot of innocent lives, sacrificing those on board with him. We don't know. For all we know he could be the biggest hero.

Rant over, I'm so friggin tired and I hope there will be some news when I wake up.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

after the information has been loaded, can it be changed remotely?

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I would hazard to say that it would require either a completely new flight profile be loaded or it would prompt for approval to the changes being made, with a "Are you aware of these changes to *blah blah*??? Would you like to approve these changes??? Are you sure???"

I mean... that would be logical wouldn't it? And in an industry where checks and redundancy make for safety, even more so...

 

[newone]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I would hazard to say that it would require either a completely new flight profile be loaded or it would prompt for approval to the changes being made, with a "Are you aware of these changes to *blah blah*??? Would you like to approve these changes??? Are you sure???"

I mean... that would be logical wouldn't it? And in an industry where checks and redundancy make for safety, even more so...

thanks I really appreciate your view because an information from a above JerseyGirl post in this thread really freaked me out

MH370 hacked with mobile phone, says expert
Dr Sally Leivesley, a former science advisor for the UK's Home Office, told the Sunday Express that "malicious codes" buried in the Boeing 777's computers could have been triggered by a mobile phone or USB stick.
That may have initiated a "set of processes" which would allow the plane's speed, altitude and direction to be remotely controlled, Dr Leivesley speculated.

bbm

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/201...h-mobile-phone
__________________

 

[Derryn Hunch]

I read about a year ago about the possibility of an aircraft being hacked and remote controlled by mobile phone (an android app basically) - and it was proven as a "proof in concept" by the security organization that did it in a test environment.

Although I can't say I read any more on it after that one article, I need not explain how scary that is.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Here are the articles I read I think:

http://www.zdnet.com/researcher-takes-controls-of-aircraft-system-with-android-phone-7000013879/

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/11/tech/mobile/phone-hijack-plane/


hwow:

 

[JerseyGirl]

It is so frustrating to see that many of the news reports are now either outright blaming or insinuating that Shah was responsible for taking over the plane. Just because someone has a flight simulator in their home or have a keen interest in something does not a crazy fanatic make. There was no message left either, so good job trying to prove that it was done for political reasons - there was no message. Not at all. By all accounts Shah and his copilot were good guys. There is no evidence aside from his expertise in flying which is his JOB that points the finger at him. It's so bloody disrespectful to his poor grieving family and to the rest of us
I think someone 'ran amok' or tried to take over, and I believe Shah flew the plane far out where they would do the least damage, knowing they would probably crash. But for all we know, it could turn out that this plane was headed for some epic 9/11-like scenario, and he saved a lot of innocent lives, sacrificing those on board with him. We don't know. For all we know he could be the biggest hero.

Rant over, I'm so friggin tired and I hope there will be some news when I wake up.

There is mounting evidence that one if not both of the pliots manning Malaysia Airlines flight 370 were involved in the plane's disappearance. The final message to ground controllers, "All right, good night," came after a critical signaling system was disabled. The two pilots Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27, are now under new scrutiny.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/16/malaysia-rejects-help-with-mh370.html

 

[What'sThatClue]

Okay, all of this is JMO, MOO, IMO, etc. That's because I no longer have a link.
Until this morning, the pilot's FB was available. Now it's gone. Poof. And I didn't screen shot it (but I think other boards did or at least quoted him--can't post that here either.

BUT...what kind of terrorist posts condolences to the families and victim's of the Boston Bombing? He did, right after it happened. Just condolences, no other comments.

He had lots of cooking photos there too. Along with, of course, pics of his flight simulator and parts he used to build it.

I pm'd a mod last night for permission to post the link but didn't hear back and now the point is moot because the page is gone and I failed to screen shot it. My bad.

So, after studying the pilot's FB for days, I'm hanging on the fence here about his involvement and leaning toward the co-pilot. Especially now that we know it was the co-pilot's voice that was last heard.

Btw, the co-pilot's FB disappeared immediately, within a day or so and it was speculated that his family removed it but who knows? Now there are only fake ones or condolence fb's under his name. However, the pilot's FB stayed up until this morning. Granted, it was a little hard to find, but someone removed it now.

JMO MOO IMO

So again, all I've said is MOO because now even if a mod approved posting the FB, it's gone.

ETA: Mods, if my post is inappropriate, please remove it.