Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Ruthbullock]

Yes. It is either one or the other.
However the window was pulled closed before family retired but was found open in the morning.
It could have easily have been opened from the outside.
So, the evidence we have suggests it was opened by a person, not a gale of wind.

And window, aside, Nora was incapable of travelling over rough terrain to arrive at where she was finally found.
Her feet were unmarked.
The evidence now strongly suggests she was abducted for reasons as yet unknown, possibly kept somewhere as a prisoner until she was moved to where she was found as it really does not appear possible for her to have completed that journey all by herself.

The window as mum described she had to pinch the frame with her fingernails to pull it inwards. Once it’s in, locked or not, you would need the same dexterity to open it from outside, so there would be a thin gap to pry and pull it open. We also shouldn’t forget the window was less open than has been shown in the crime scene photos. Mum said the window was much closer to the wall and not as open as it is in the photos- so we now have someone potentially carrying someone and then pushing the window more closed (but not completely) again- which just doesn’t make sense. I think the police dismissed the window, and I can see the train of thought there, I’m not certain they didn’t investigate other aspects that could have had criminal elements.

 

[kittythehare]

The window as mum described she had to pinch the frame with her fingernails to pull it inwards. Once it’s in, locked or not, you would need the same dexterity to open it from outside, so there would be a thin gap to pry and pull it open. We also shouldn’t forget the window was less open than has been shown in the crime scene photos. Mum said the window was much closer to the wall and not as open as it is in the photos- so we now have someone potentially carrying someone and then pushing the window more closed (but not completely) again- which just doesn’t make sense. I think the police dismissed the window, and I can see the train of thought there, I’m not certain they didn’t investigate other aspects that could have had criminal elements.

Somebody entered via the openable window from the outside is my theory.
They encountered Nora inside, possibly up and looking for a drink because of the heat.
I don't believe they carried her out the window, I imagine they exited, with Nora via the door.

Either that or Nora opened the door herself and nobody entered. The window was open, however.

Was she abducted?
She must have been.
or everybody is lying

 

[Ruthbullock]

Dismissed the sunken bath- it’s aligned with the rear bathroom and balcony, so on the overhang.

 

[kittythehare]

Garratt Park School - Duke of Edinburgh
This is the camping trip they are talking about from the school website. They stayed for two nights so it was the silver award ( Nora must have already achieved the bronze). One thing that I did take from today is Nora was capable of walking and doing certain things independently for example she took another child to the toilet block ( if she was potentially going to unbalance a less stable child, they wouldn’t have allowed that to happen), she could potentially visit the shops alone (it would be the money and talking that would be the area of difficulty). Sadly I think this is where the whole case became almost a battle of wills against the police and the parents. The parents over emphasised her difficulties to encourage the police to take notice, the police had seen evidence to the contrary and probably spoke to witnesses who contradicted the parents evidence, so then catch 22, how could they trust anything the parents were saying. I’m now thinking this will be the only conclusion that will be drawn from the inquest.

where exactly did her parents over exaggerate her difficulties and what evidence had the police to the contrary? They had cctv showing her walking on a flat surface at the airport. That is NOT evidence to the contrary.
What witnesses could they possibly have spoken to that contradicted her parents testimony?
She was there for a single day before she disappeared.

 

[kittythehare]

The window as mum described she had to pinch the frame with her fingernails to pull it inwards. Once it’s in, locked or not, you would need the same dexterity to open it from outside, so there would be a thin gap to pry and pull it open. We also shouldn’t forget the window was less open than has been shown in the crime scene photos. Mum said the window was much closer to the wall and not as open as it is in the photos- so we now have someone potentially carrying someone and then pushing the window more closed (but not completely) again- which just doesn’t make sense. I think the police dismissed the window, and I can see the train of thought there, I’m not certain they didn’t investigate other aspects that could have had criminal elements.

The police steadfastly maintained Nora had left via the window. You are incorrect.

 

[Ruthbullock]

where exactly did her parents over exaggerate her difficulties and what evidence had the police to the contrary? They had cctv showing her walking on a flat surface at the airport. That is NOT evidence to the contrary.
What witnesses could they possibly have spoken to that contradicted her parents testimony?
She was there for a single day before she disappeared.

I’ve given several examples in all my posts that have mentioned contradictions and why. Other witnesses could include the people who were in the pool when they got in, the owners of the resort and her family, any other guests who may have seen them walking around the resort. The taxi driver, people at the airport- the list goes on.

 

[kittythehare]

I’ve given several examples in all my posts that have mentioned contradictions and why. Other witnesses could include the people who were in the pool when they got in, the owners of the resort and her family, any other guests who may have seen them walking around the resort. The taxi driver, people at the airport- the list goes on.

None of those people saw her ability to navigate a jungle alone. I'd like to avoid getting into the weeds here again.

 

[Ruthbullock]

The police steadfastly maintained Nora had left via the window. You are incorrect.

They had to the parents were adamant at the time the window was key as well, however when questioned under oath mum wasn’t sure whether the door had been unlocked. Potentially the window

None of those people saw her ability to navigate a jungle alone. I'd like to avoid getting into the weeds here again.

You are taking yourself there, I have never mentioned Nora navigating the jungle alone in any of the posts, nor implied she could.

 

[Chiatos]

Jeez,
Lawyer representing Dosun is taking and receiving a helluva lotta liberties.
Why are they even there?
This stinks.
(thanks, again, haven't had a chance to watch it yet.
What was tone like?
Belligerant? courteous?

The Dusun's lawyer has been very polite - and I think understanding-. I had the impression that he remained quite impressed by what he had heard. I think it very wise of him to ask for copies of the Expert Reports.

Nora lacked core strength. She lacked muscular endurance so to speak. Apart from all the rest.
I don't believe that she reached the spot where she was found all by herself.

If there hadn't been an intruder inside the chalet, then it could have for instance been Nora to have mistaken the main door for the second toilet. She might have exited by mistake. From that point someone else must have taken over.

 

[Chiatos]

Garratt Park School - Duke of Edinburgh
This is the camping trip they are talking about from the school website. They stayed for two nights so it was the silver award ( Nora must have already achieved the bronze). One thing that I did take from today is Nora was capable of walking and doing certain things independently for example she took another child to the toilet block ( if she was potentially going to unbalance a less stable child, they wouldn’t have allowed that to happen), she could potentially visit the shops alone (it would be the money and talking that would be the area of difficulty). Sadly I think this is where the whole case became almost a battle of wills against the police and the parents. The parents over emphasised her difficulties to encourage the police to take notice, the police had seen evidence to the contrary and probably spoke to witnesses who contradicted the parents evidence, so then catch 22, how could they trust anything the parents were saying. I’m now thinking this will be the only conclusion that will be drawn from the inquest.

Mr. Michael also explained that the toilet block would be 20(?) yards away and that she and the other schoolgirl would remain observed from a distance.
He also explained that Nora liked going to a supermarket, but that it would exhaust her in the end.

So yes, she could do things, but always with a but.

Hopefully more witnesses or expert reports will shed more light on Nora's fate.

 

[MsBetsy]

I’ve given several examples in all my posts that have mentioned contradictions and why. Other witnesses could include the people who were in the pool when they got in, the owners of the resort and her family, any other guests who may have seen them walking around the resort. The taxi driver, people at the airport- the list goes on.

I still have not seen any indication that Nora's mother ever contradicted herself. Her description corresponds with everything the headmaster said in his testimony, especially the fact that she had problems with balance and coordination when walking.

At one point the family was accused of making inconsistent statements about Nora's abilities when the grandfather referred to her as having "mild" disabilities. That was the only inconsistent statement I remember, yet he is not immediate family and likely wasn't familiar with the correct terms.

Again, Nora's parents would be the ones who know most about what she was capable of, much more so than a stranger who observed her walking or swimming on one occasion.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

He was actually very polite and he wasn’t requesting the EHCP for any other reason than it would help support Noras parents testimony, to which everyone on both sides agreed. The headteacher was more open to being honest about things that Nora would be able to do, which was in contrast to how her parents presented Nora, and I think this led to it being less conflicting. Simple differences in wording- about the window for example. The headteacher stated it would be too high for Nora to climb out of it, she could climb over lower things if needed to a maximum of about a foot (so roughly the height of mounting steps on a staircase and maybe something a little higher). Noras parents have been adamant she couldn’t open the window and the discussion then struggled to move forward, in reality there was nothing holding the window shut as the latch was broken and it opened outwards- so even a toddler or a pet dog accidentally leaning on it could potentially open it. The headmaster made a very coherent case in support of Nora and I am positive after watching that it has been a very positive thing on her family’s behalf.

I agree with you, I think he made things very clear.

I still have not seen any indication that Nora's mother ever contradicted herself. Her description corresponds with everything the headmaster said in his testimony, especially the fact that she had problems with balance and coordination when walking.

At one point the family was accused of making inconsistent statements about Nora's abilities when the grandfather referred to her as having "mild" disabilities. That was the only inconsistent statement I remember, yet he is not immediate family and likely wasn't familiar with the correct terms.

Again, Nora's parents would be the ones who know most about what she was capable of, much more so than a stranger who observed her walking or swimming on one occasion.

It was explained by the headteacher that Nora's disabilities were considered mild because the condition often causes death.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree with you, I think he made things very clear.

It was explained by the headteacher that Nora's disabilities were considered mild because the condition often causes death.

I think everyone's definition of a mild disability might be different.

Nora attended a school for children with "moderate" disabilities. She had "significant" learning difficulties and physical disability. She would never be able to live on her own or function independently, so to me this would be considered a moderate disability.

 

[kittythehare]

I think everyone's definition of a mild disability might be different.

Nora attended a school for children with "moderate" disabilities. She had "significant" learning difficulties and physical disability. She would never be able to live on her own or function independently, so to me this would be considered a moderate disability.

Microcephaly is a significant disability.
Disability applies to living people, not dead.
Dead people have no disabilities.

 

[drama_farmer]

I've been following the case since the earliest days, but was wondering if any of Nora's siblings were physically taller/stronger than her?

We've heard her mom testify to what one of the siblings reported, regarding noticing that Nora was not in her bed. I wonder if the other kids were considered more adventurous/spontaneous compared to Nora.

 

[Morag]

Has anyone mentioned Nora’s voice? Was she very soft spoken, or did she have a normal volume? When her mother thought she heard voices in the cottage during the night...could that have been Nora calling out for help?

 

[kittythehare]

Has anyone mentioned Nora’s voice? Was she very soft spoken, or did she have a normal volume? When her mother thought she heard voices in the cottage during the night...could that have been Nora calling out for help?

Her dad was asked that question. He testified that parental instinct would have alerted him had it been Nora. It's towards the end of the long recording.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

Her dad was asked that question. He testified that parental instinct would have alerted him had it been Nora. It's towards the end of the long recording.

I agree with that but doesn't seem that helpful for an inquest.

 

[kittythehare]

I agree with that but doesn't seem that helpful for an inquest.

I'm unsure what you mean by that?

 

[Officer Dibble]

T
So, if she didn't exit window and window was open, someone else opened it, no sudden drafts of wind were likely.
If she didn't exit window, she exited door.
This still feels like a local or someone with knowledge of the faulty windowlatch.

BBM. Or was made to be faulty before their arrival? I would like to hear from the previous guests in that house as to anything faulty. JMO