Man seen carrying diaper clad baby

[luckyme]

has lawyer said anything?

 

[Geralyn]

wow. The NG show has the 4am sighting on the corner of north 48th st...and I-435.
There is a Crowley Cemetary there. Just sayin.

 

[tiredblondy]

I know, it is very strange. It's as if the person didn't care if he was being seen with the baby since the baby was not covered up with a blanket at all to conceal that he was carrying a baby. 4 am sighting time. 4 am is when JI is at his home. JI and man with baby cannot be in two places at the same time. It is very strange.

He was seen in the neighborhood around 12 midnight I thought?

Something you said Matou, "It's as if the person didn't care if he was being seen with the baby"

If it had been in the daylight I'd say it was on purpose to support the kidnapping story, but since it is dark at night I can't help but wonder if it's to either cause decoy trails for dogs and LE or the actual accomplice taking the baby's body to hide. Also did the guy have on a cap or try to hide his face?

 

[In da Middle]

FWIW It was not 45 that night, it was about 60. Not that it matters when walking outside with a half-naked baby. Still too cold for that, but not 45.

 

[frankie069]

Parents and lawyers statement regarding the warrant.

http://www.kmbc.com/download/2011/1021/29552279.pdf

 

[matou]

Now I'm thinking this news could be bogus. It is coming on the foot heels of really damaging info r.e. the cadaver dog hitting on a scent in the mother's bedroom. The timing of this is really suspicious to me. Within hours of the cadaver dog story, this mystery man story comes out again with a man seen at 4 am, the same time as JI is getting home and calling 911. Fishy. Is the defense team coming up with this as a ploy? Wasn't the mystery man story dismissed early on?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents and lawyers statement regarding the warrant.

http://www.kmbc.com/download/2011/1021/29552279.pdf

Carefully scripted statement. Doesn't mean diddly-squat, AFAIC. jmo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Now I'm thinking this news could be bogus. It is coming on the foot heels of really damaging info r.e. the cadaver dog hitting on a scent in the mother's bedroom. The timing of this is really suspicious to me. Within hours of the cadaver dog story, this mystery man story comes out again with a man seen at 4 am, the same time as JI is getting home and calling 911. Fishy. Is the defense team coming up with this as a ploy? Wasn't the mystery man story dismissed early on?

The dirty laundry is now on "spin" cycle. jmo

 

[belimom]

I just posted this on another thread but it really belongs here so I'm bringing it over (duplicate post):

Me either - I think if these people saw something, then it's possible it was a decoy. If someone had a 'decoy' in order for there to be fake 'sightings', then they would want it to be obvious that they were carrying a baby and for that baby to be seen. A baby is much more recognizable, especially at night, if just wearing a diaper rather than fully clothed/bundled-up, at which point the baby may go unnoticed altogether and completely blend in with the person carrying her.

That's why I'm thinking it's possible there was a doll. I know it sounds far-fetched, but then again this whole case is. And if you did commit a crime and needed the focus to be elsewhere, what better way than for someone to 'see a kidnapper with a baby'?

JMHO

 

[SarahW]

All it means is the guy was seen carrying the baby no one knows if that baby was alive ...The cadaver dogs say she wasnt..

The cadaver dogs weren't necessarily hitting on a dead Lisa.

 

[IrishMist]

The cadaver dogs weren't necessarily hitting on a dead Lisa.

?? What do you mean?

 

[Kamille]

FWIW It was not 45 that night, it was about 60. Not that it matters when walking outside with a half-naked baby. Still too cold for that, but not 45.

Thanks for clarifying that IndaMiddle. I wondered why the sightings involved someone in a t-shirt on such a cold night.

Speaking of that, what abductor wears a t-shirt with bare arms...white at that which would make them very visable...to commit a crime. And leave no DNA? Not one skin cell, not one arm or head hair? Was he wearing gloves? Did he discard of a jacket, gloves, a hat (or was he bald...why no description of the hair?) and the baby's clothes somewhere between the Irwin home and this couple's home. Which if it is on the street perpendicular to N Lister, it would be on the street behind them...which goes no where. It goes right back to N Lister. :waitasec:

Unless of course, he left via the back yard taking and disposing of the phones along the way. Can you get to the street behind through the back?

MOO

 

[tiredblondy]

Parents and lawyers statement regarding the warrant.

http://www.kmbc.com/download/2011/1021/29552279.pdf

My opinion only-:violin: That was so totally expected!

 

[In da Middle]

To me it was only seen that a man was carrying "A" baby, not "the" baby in question. But thats not what her written headline said, which is what I took issue with. She labled it as Baby Lisa. Its misleading, imo.

That said, its very hard to just dismiss the sightings. For one thing, its rare you see anyone walking around with a baby at those hours. Add to that in the same neighborhood as a baby (allegedly) went missing and on the same (alleged) night? Add to that the man had no jacket or hoodie type clothing on in both sightings. Add to that the baby was only in a diaper in at least one of the sightings?

The second sighting hours later (4am reportedly) near an interstate exit area, as being reported on NG show. I want to go back and freeze that frame on NG that had the sighting map up...and see if I can google map that area and pinpoint (unless its already here). I would be very interested in seeing what businesses, if any, might be there to capture on tape. I haven't heard anything on that.

It showed the intersection of NE Randolph Rd and NE 48th st. If this is the same person, they would pass some businesses but they probably wouldn't show the road. Unless they went past quiktrip maybe. If the walked down Parvin rd then went north on Bennington there would be hardly anything that would have cameras. Look for Worlds of Fun on the map and it is just northwest of there.

 

[SarahW]

?? What do you mean?

The hit is probable cause for a search under the circumstances; it is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt (not at this time, with only the "hit" as evidence) that there was a death or that if there was the death was recent.

That's an older home in an older neighborhood. It is possible a former occupant died in the home (as my mother died in hers) and there are remnant traces of cadaverine, etc. from fluids leaking into the floor, subfloor, joist spaces, drywall, etc. My mother died next to her bed following a stroke and wasn't immediately discovered.

That's possibility a.

There are others: a home birth in that room, pregnancy loss, menstrual fluids, bloody show - any decaying human blood product or tissue could produce a scent resulting in a hit.

There is even the possibility of a false hit - in good or bad faith - resulting from an improperly used or improperly trained dog.

Analysis to followup and a history of events in the home is necessary to determine the source of the hit. It rules in the possibility that Lisa died there, but it does not rule out other possiblities.

THe extensive search I think was partly to determine if that hit was really related to a recent loss of life.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I asked DH to read the statement (without my prefacing contents). His opinion: "Sounds like bs to me."

 

[Geralyn]

It showed the intersection of NE Randolph Rd and NE 48th st. If this is the same person, they would pass some businesses but they probably wouldn't show the road. Unless they went past quiktrip maybe. If the walked down Parvin rd then went north on Bennington there would be hardly anything that would have cameras. Look for Worlds of Fun on the map and it is just northwest of there.

Thank you. Hopefully LE has tried to get any possible tapes from businesses in that area from that morning.
I freeze framed the NG show map...and I did pull it up on a map. I see corner in question and was concerned about the cemetary there. Strike that...make it plural...cemetaries.

 

[tiredblondy]

The hit is probable cause for a search under the circumstances; it is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt (not at this time, with only the "hit" as evidence) that there was a death or that if there was the death was recent.

That's an older home in an older neighborhood. It is possible a former occupant died in the home (as my mother died in hers) and there are remnant traces of cadaverine, etc. from fluids leaking into the floor, subfloor, joist spaces, drywall, etc. My mother died next to her bed following a stroke and wasn't immediately discovered.

That's possibility a.

There are others: a home birth in that room, pregnancy loss, menstrual fluids, bloody show - any decaying human blood product or tissue could produce a scent resulting in a hit.

There is even the possibility of a false hit - in good or bad faith - resulting from an improperly used or improperly trained dog.

Analysis to followup and a history of events in the home is necessary to determine the source of the hit.

With all due respect-This has been discussed and clarified in my mind. I'll go with LE on this one and I'll go with the info I learned on the Cadaver Dog thread in this forum.

 

[Geralyn]

The hit is probable cause for a search under the circumstances; it is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt (not at this time, with only the "hit" as evidence) that there was a death or that if there was the death was recent.

That's an older home in an older neighborhood. It is possible a former occupant died in the home (as my mother died in hers) and there are remnant traces of cadaverine, etc. from fluids leaking into the floor, subfloor, joist spaces, drywall, etc. My mother died next to her bed following a stroke and wasn't immediately discovered.

That's possibility a.

There are others: a home birth in that room, pregnancy loss, menstrual fluids, bloody show - any decaying human blood product or tissue could produce a scent resulting in a hit.

There is even the possibility of a false hit - in good or bad faith - resulting from an improperly used or improperly trained dog.

Analysis to followup and a history of events in the home is necessary to determine the source of the hit. It rules in the possibility that Lisa died there, but it does not rule out other possiblities.

THe extensive search I think was partly to determine if that hit was really related to a recent loss of life.

I have to agree Sarah. At this point, there is no way to know. As hinky as it sounds at first blush, it can't rule out the ther possibilities.
I do hope more info comes out on this aspect of the case, but I've a feeling it will be kept very close to the vest. As well it should.

 

[hannahsnana]

Someone mentioned the possibility of the man carrying a decoy baby, a doll. Most dolls are not the size of a 10-month-old. There are some, I suppose, but what are the possibilities Deborah had access to such a big doll?