Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

[thinkingstraight]

The idea that RN would want to hurt the child is absurd. The woman quit her job and moved in with a millionaire. Presumably she might have wanted to become a Mrs. S. Hurting the child is not the way to go to achieve that goal. So she has no motive whatsoever to do anything to the child.

Do you not see any of it as peculiar? I don't know if she hurt Max intentionally or not, but I do see a coverup. IMO. So, why?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy101 *
Did I read somewhere that Maxi was told not to ride his scooter in the hall??

Wonder if he was riding his scooter and went over the railing at great speed?

Originally Posted by CDS22
How would he gain the velocity on carpeting? Also, there is no proof he rode the scooter in the hallway. RZ and XZ claim they heard no sounds until RZ heard one crash.

Wendy, what you likely are remembering is the following statement from LE conclusions in power point:

"Statements regarding history of playing in the hall and staircase"

Referring to yes, there were statements given that Max was known to play in this hall area in question and the staircase.. But it doesn't get specific stating the scooter per se.. Tho the very next line does state that the scooter was found to be in the area where the accident occurred..

Referring to the quote regarding a scooter gaining enough velocity on a carpeted area.. All I can say is personal experience proves otherwise, especially in specifically speaking of an exact Razor scooter, along with a son who was small-med frame 6yr old just like Max and the velocity that can be gained with a child the size of Max riding a Razor scooter on carpet is much greater than what would be necessary in Wendy's theory of his going over the banister.. Without a doubt it's possible.. As for both Rebecca and XZ not hearing anything.. A) Rebecca was on a separate floor*
B) XV was in the shower and was just getting out when heard Rebecca screaming for her
C) A&B combined with C being that a Razor scooter on a carpeted hallway would not be audible to either of these two people! It wouldn't have been loud in the very least..

Jmo!! And personal experience.

 

[CDS22]

Wendy, what you likely are remembering is the following statement from LE conclusions in power point:

Referring to yes, there were statements given that Max was known to play in this hall area in question and the staircase.. But it doesn't get specific stating the scooter per se.. Tho the very next line does state that the scooter was found to be in the area where the accident occurred..

Referring to the quote regarding a scooter gaining enough velocity on a carpeted area.. All I can say is personal experience proves otherwise, especially in specifically speaking of an exact Razor scooter, along with a son who was small-med frame 6yr old just like Max and the velocity that can be gained with a child the size of Max riding a Razor scooter on carpet is much greater than what would be necessary in Wendy's theory of his going over the banister.. Without a doubt it's possible.. As for both Rebecca and XZ not hearing anything.. A) Rebecca was on a separate floor*
B) XV was in the shower and was just getting out when heard Rebecca screaming for her
C) A&B combined with C being that a Razor scooter on a carpeted hallway would not be audible to either of these two people! It wouldn't have been loud in the very least..

Jmo!! And personal experience.

Actually, MS's AR contains a blurb about RZ saying he was not allowed to ride the scooter in the hallway. The link to the AR is on the first page in the first post of the first Max death thread.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Actually, MS's AR contains a blurb about RZ saying he was not allowed to ride the scooter in the hallway. The link to the AR is on the first page in the first post of the first Max death thread.

As I clearly stated regardless the razor would not have been loud in the least.. It's easily proven..

 

[tiredblondy]

Thanks for your response.

Do you have any specific theories on how he went over the railing and got fatal whiplash? That's what gets me - how he got his spinal cord unplugged from his brain in a way that typically only happens in a car accident with no seat belt. I can't see him getting enough velocity even if he fell from the railing or jumped. Plus it wouldn't explain his back injuries and the fact that he was found with a scooter on his leg.

I can contribute to this,it depends on how one lands from the fall and the momentum. Football players can have this happen if they are knocked in the air and come down the wrong way, even with the helmet. Chris Reeves had a brainstem injury.

If...if he was using the scooter to try to get a ball out of the chandelier and the dog knocked him off balance the scooter would be in his hands and would have knocked his head backwards upon landing (because of the length ). I think after the point of landing and the scooter slamming against his head he would have released it and it would have flown up in the air landing behind him somewhere. I also don't think he was on the lower landing I think he may have been on the upper level of stairs.

Another possibility is the scooter got caught in the chandlier when he went over slamming into his head and face snapping his neck back. He would have released it then but hanging on it could have swung him higher first then down.

I've tried to explain this over and over and I just don't know if I haven't done a good job or what but to me this makes the most sense. I don't think it was a simple fall but one in which he or the scooter got tangled up in the fall.

Another possibility is he just landed that way forcing his head back but if he had been holding that scooter in any way it could have caused him to lose balance and be top heavy. Just think have you ever fallen with anything in your hands? I have and if what I'm carrying is heavy and or long it has smacked me right in the face or head. Luckily it wasn't down 2 flights of stairs.

I think it is entirely possible he was stretching to hold out the scooter to knock the ball out of the chandelier probably with his feet wrapped around the banister (very precariously balanced). If the dog jumped on him or jostled him in any way that balance would be gone. I suspect strongly if he said Ocean that's what happened. A true and total accident.

There would have been enough circulation left in his brain to utter a word then because of the function of the pons and brainstem the damage from the fall would have taken effect and the autonomic nervous system would not have been able to get the signals through anymore for the beating heart and breathing and both stopped.

If the communication cannot get through to the brain then only life support can maintain those autonomic functions.

I feel this article about Christopher Reeve is very informative and I've included a few parts from the article below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A99660-1995Jun1.html

There are seven vertebrae in the neck, and any break in the first four, accompanied by a serious spinal cord injury, will cause severe impairment of breathing and quadriplegia. What was not spelled out in Jane's statement is the extent to which Reeve's spinal cord was disrupted.
The spinal cord carries nerve fibers traveling both from the brain to the rest of the body and from the body back to the brain. Those coming from the brain are responsible for voluntary control of muscles. Those traveling toward the brain carry sensation.
Cameron B. Huckell, an assistant professor of orthopedic surgery at the Johns Hopkins University medical school, said yesterday that "most people who have a complete disruption of the spinal cord don't even make it to the hospital. **Only patients who have been rapidly resuscitated survive the initial event and then have a 60 to 70 percent mortality rate at one week."
Lawrence S. Chin, assistant professor of surgery at the University of Maryland School of Medicine in Baltimore, concurs. "If there is absolutely no indication of some type of recovery at 48 hours, the chance that there will be recovery is very, very low," he said.

**This in my opinion supports Rebecca giving him CPR right away.

I hope I have explained what I think happened.

Max looked so much like my son did at that age. I can't imagine the way the parents must feel. The devastation, the loss, knowing you're not going to hear his voice again, memories of his energy and loving nature and not being able to hug him again or have him hug you. But on the other side what a blessing to have had him for the six years they did.

If I did not have a background and was in a profession that dealt with neurology and being a parent dealing with this, I'm not sure I'd understand right away either.Especially if a Dr expressed suspicions of foul play, I'd be furious but I also understand that Dr's are human.

If- what I surmise is what happened, it could have happened under anyone's supervision anywhere.

I think the parents actually had a chance to say goodbye and spend time with Max because CPR was administered.

 

[CDS22]

I can contribute to this,it depends on how one lands from the fall and the momentum. Football players can have this happen if they are knocked in the air and come down the wrong way, even with the helmet. Chris Reeves had a brainstem injury.

If...if he was using the scooter to try to get a ball out of the chandelier and the dog knocked him off balance the scooter would be in his hands and would have knocked his head backwards upon landing (because of the length ). I think after the point of landing and the scooter slamming against his head he would have released it and it would have flown up in the air landing behind him somewhere. I also don't think he was on the lower landing I think he may have been on the upper level of stairs.

Another possibility is the scooter got caught in the chandlier when he went over slamming into his head and face snapping his neck back. He would have released it then but hanging on it could have swung him higher first then down.

I've tried to explain this over and over and I just don't know if I haven't done a good job or what but to me this makes the most sense. I don't think it was a simple fall but one in which he or the scooter got tangled up in the fall.

Another possibility is he just landed that way forcing his head back but if he had been holding that scooter in any way it could have caused him to lose balance and be top heavy. Just think have you ever fallen with anything in your hands? I have and if what I'm carrying is heavy and or long it has smacked me right in the face. Luckily it wasn't down 2 flights of stairs.

I think it is entirely possible he was stretching to hold out the scooter to knock the ball out of the chandelier probably with his feet wrapped around the banister (very precariously balanced). If the dog jumped on him or jostled him in any way that balance would be gone. I suspect strongly if he said Ocean that's what happened. A true and total accident.

There would have been enough circulation left in his brain to utter a word then because of the function of the pons and brainstem the damage from the fall would have taken effect and the autonomic nervous system would not have been able to get the signals through anymore for the beating heart and breathing and both stopped.

If the communication cannot get through to the brain then only life support can maintain those autonomic functions.

I feel this article about Christopher Reeve is very informative and I've included a few parts from the article below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A99660-1995Jun1.html

There are seven vertebrae in the neck, and any break in the first four, accompanied by a serious spinal cord injury, will cause severe impairment of breathing and quadriplegia. What was not spelled out in Jane's statement is the extent to which Reeve's spinal cord was disrupted.
The spinal cord carries nerve fibers traveling both from the brain to the rest of the body and from the body back to the brain. Those coming from the brain are responsible for voluntary control of muscles. Those traveling toward the brain carry sensation.
Cameron B. Huckell, an assistant professor of orthopedic surgery at the Johns Hopkins University medical school, said yesterday that "most people who have a complete disruption of the spinal cord don't even make it to the hospital. **Only patients who have been rapidly resuscitated survive the initial event and then have a 60 to 70 percent mortality rate at one week."
Lawrence S. Chin, assistant professor of surgery at the University of Maryland School of Medicine in Baltimore, concurs. "If there is absolutely no indication of some type of recovery at 48 hours, the chance that there will be recovery is very, very low," he said.

**This in my opinion supports Rebecca giving him CPR right away.

I hope I have explained what I think happened.

Max looked so much like my son did at that age. I can't imagine the way the parents must feel. The devastation, the loss, knowing you're not going to hear his voice again, memories of his energy and loving nature and not being able to hug him again or have him hug you. But on the other side what a blessing to have had him for the six years they did.

If I did not have a background and was in a profession that dealt with neurology and being a parent dealing with this, I'm not sure I'd understand right away either.Especially if a Dr expressed suspicions of foul play, I'd be furious but I also understand that Dr's are human.

If- what I surmise is what happened, it could have happened under anyone's supervision anywhere.

I think the parents actually had a chance to say goodbye and spend time with Max because CPR was administered.

Thanks for your response.

If MS had fallen and wasn't unconscious before his fall, he would have used his hands to break the impact. He didn't. That suggests he was unconscious prior to hitting the floor.

If the impact of his head on the floor is what caused his death, then he would have been conscious prior to hitting the floor and would have been able to scream for RZ.

According to what she told police in the AR, that did not happen.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

As I clearly stated regardless the razor would not have been loud in the least.. It's easily proven..

The carpet would have provided enough traction that the speed couldn't have been reached for MS to go over the railing with the velocity needed to get that type of head injury.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

The carpet would have provided enough traction that the speed couldn't have been reached for MS to go over the railing with the velocity needed to get that type of head injury.

IMO

Based on what do you make these kind of statements? Are you a mathematician?

 

[Wendy101]

Didn't she tell the police that he had been warned not to play on his scooter in the house? Wasn't that a little early to start "blaming the victim". I'm not sure if she said this at the time of the accident or later. I hope someone can find a link to that. That's always bothered me.

BBM: This is what I asked earlier. Thank you for letting me know where I read that.

When I did read that, I assumed that Max was using his scooter and hit the railing and went over. Someone had commented back that there was carpet in the hallway, so Max wouldn't have had enough speed.

 

[Wendy101]

How do you guys know there was carpet in the hallway? LOL.. I assumed it was hardwood.. real hardwood.. .. a gazillionaire lives there...

 

[tiredblondy]

Thanks for your response.

If MS had fallen and wasn't unconscious before his fall, he would have used his hands to break the impact. He didn't. That suggests he was unconscious prior to hitting the floor.

If the impact of his head on the floor is what caused his death, then he would have been conscious prior to hitting the floor and would have been able to scream for RZ.

According to what she told police in the AR, that did not happen.

JMO

Not if he was holding on to the scooter. I don't think he used his hands because he was holding on to the scooter. If any part of the scooter hit the floor before he landed it would have been pushed against his head backwards.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to give an explanation as to how he sustained the damage to his brainstem.

I don't know why I bothered. It is so obivious based on some posts that the hate against Rebecca is so strong some cannot even begin to consider possible alternatives to how Max sustained the damage. :banghead:

 

[Wendy101]

Thanks for your response.

If MS had fallen and wasn't unconscious before his fall, he would have used his hands to break the impact. He didn't. That suggests he was unconscious prior to hitting the floor.

If the impact of his head on the floor is what caused his death, then he would have been conscious prior to hitting the floor and would have been able to scream for RZ.

According to what she told police in the AR, that did not happen.

JMO

BBM: Good point.

 

[elementry]

Seems so. Too little, too late to actually help someone.

JMO

It sounds like you accept the fact there were screams. What do you surmise those were about? tia

 

[SunnieRN]

Sounds like it was reported later, after the fact.

Possibly, guess we will just have to wait and see.

Do we know if this person is female?

Apologies, my error. I was speaking to someone who used 'she' and it stuck in my head.

Interesting that the SW states RZ told them she found MS on his back and turned him over to administer CPR (page 3, thumbnail 3). If that is true, how did the scooter wind up on his leg? Also, did she tell one cop one thing and something quite different to another?

Found him on his back and turned him over? How did she so cpr then?:waitasec:

The idea that RN would want to hurt the child is absurd. The woman quit her job and moved in with a millionaire. Presumably she might have wanted to become a Mrs. S. Hurting the child is not the way to go to achieve that goal. So she has no motive whatsoever to do anything to the child.

No motive whatsoever and a darn tootin good reason to 'protect her interests' by keeping Max safe. I happen to believe that she loved Max and enjoyed spending time with him, that those were the only 'interests' she was concerned about.

 

[Quester]

From SW (warrant_4132-1.pdf, page 2, lines 20 - 22):

“The only adult present at the residence when the boy sustained his injuries was [RZ], with a birth date of [X XX XXXX]. [RZ]’s 13 year-old sister, [XZ] was also present at the residence. [XZ] called 911 while [RZ] provided first aid.”


My read concerning those present when MS fell is that RZ was the only adult, XZ was also there AND there was/were other minor(s) present who was/were not listed in the SW. IMO, MOO, etc.

Given the way the statement was written, if XZ had been the only minor present they would have stated as much. IMO.

My questions:

1. Why the hush-hush? [I think this is where the whole ugly snowball began. IMO. Where will it land and at what additional cost?]

2. Since XZ placed the 911 call, can the Z family/attorney push for the 911 recording to be unsealed?

TIA

 

[Wendy101]

What part of Max' brain was damaged? What part of his head hit the floor?

 

[KarenM]

Do you not see any of it as peculiar? I don't know if she hurt Max intentionally or not, but I do see a coverup. IMO. So, why?

I think JJenny was responding to the allegations of suffocation and Max being thrown off the railing. Suffocation and throwing (if indeed happened) can never be unintentional. That's why she said RZ had no motive for these two alleged actions.

 

[tiredblondy]

What part of Max' brain was damaged? What part of his head hit the floor?

It's in the autopsy report.

 

[Wendy101]

From SW (warrant_4132-1.pdf, page 2, lines 20 - 22):

“The only adult present at the residence when the boy sustained his injuries was [RZ], with a birth date of [X XX XXXX]. [RZ]’s 13 year-old sister, [XZ] was also present at the residence. [XZ] called 911 while [RZ] provided first aid.”


My read concerning those present when MS fell is that RZ was the only adult, XZ was also there AND there was/were other minor(s) present who was/were not listed in the SW. IMO, MOO, etc.

Given the way the statement was written, if XZ had been the only minor present they would have stated as much. IMO.

My questions:

1. Why the hush-hush? [I think this is where the whole ugly snowball began. IMO. Where will it land and at what additional cost?]

2. Since XZ placed the 911 call, can the Z family/attorney push for the 911 recording to be unsealed?

TIA

BBM: Who else was there?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not if he was holding on to the scooter. I don't think he used his hands because he was holding on to the scooter. If any part of the scooter hit the floor before he landed it would have been pushed against his head backwards.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to give an explanation as to how he sustained the damage to his brainstem.

I don't know why I bothered. It is so obvious based on some posts that the hate against Rebecca is so strong some cannot even begin to consider possible alternatives to how Max sustained the damage. :banghead:

Surely if that scooter went off the railing crashing to the bottom floor it would have dents and damages too wouldn't it? I think there would be some evidence seen on the scooter if it flew over the railings and crashed below.

IMO