MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[jjenny]

He looks to be kneeling in this video, so I don't think his spine was severed at this point. I wonder if they just threw him in the back of the van and he rolled around and it happened (someone who had been placed in the back of one of those vans posted on one of the news FB pages and she said something like she rolled around in the back) Anybody here know if people who are arrested are seat belted/secured in vehicles?

I'm assuming he was completely incapacitated when he got to the ER. I'm sure those reports will be enlightening.

His vertebrae could have been cracked already, so additional movement could have led to the spine being severed.

 

[SStarr33]

Interesting comments about how it happened under this story:

https://www.facebook.com/CBSBaltimore

 

[Tawny]

If he wasn't able to stand on his own because of a spinal injury, I'd imagine he wouldn't be able to sit on the benches, and would be tossed around a bit. I believe they are seated on the benches but not necessarily secured in any fashion. Speculation, I haven't seen what the interior of this van looks like.

 

[jjenny]

The guy in the video who is talking says he can't use his legs due to being tased. I don't get the impression that he had a spinal injury at that time. It seems like if he had it by then either he would not feel any pain or if he was in pain, he would not have laid so still on the ground. Any medical folks in the house?

He wasn't actually tased. He certainly looked like he had some sort of injury, considering they had to drag him.

 

[SStarr33]

His vertebrae could have been cracked already, so additional movement could have led to the spine being severed.

Yes, apparently there was someone on CNN last night who gave that very good point.

I've been burned on these cases too many times, so I am trying to sleuth what we have and not jump to conclusions.

 

[SStarr33]

He wasn't actually tased. He certainly looked like he had some sort of injury, considering they had to drag him.

Did police say he wasn't tased? The people who took the cell phone video said he was.

 

[jjenny]

Did police say he wasn't tased? The people who took the cell phone video said he was.

I saw one of the officials saying he wasn't tased. Taser was taken out but not used.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, apparently there was someone on CNN last night who gave that very good point.

I've been burned on these cases too many times, so I am trying to sleuth what we have and not jump to conclusions.

Yes, I saw that. If his vertebrae was broken, he could have still had movement in his legs. But additional movement could severe his spinal cord. Which is why accident victims should be immobilized with a neck brace if possible, before moving them.

 

[Elley Mae]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YV0EtkWyno

At 1:45 ir appears his legs are in between the front tire of the bike.

At 1:51 an officer appears to check his pockets. He appears to have something then he picks up what is on the ground, then its in his hand it looks like a phone?. jmo idk

I will say that he was talking and did go in the wagon but cnn decided that placing their banner there would prevent you from seeing if he was using his right left which is the one he was dragging. It did appear that he was probably hit with the bike and I am sure his leg was hurting but not broke according to link provided. It seems that what happened happened from it left that scene. jmo idk

There were no broken limbs or other injury to his body.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/charging-documents-freddie-gray-ran-from-police/32468120

 

[mysteriew]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/21/us-marshal-phone-recording_n_7108840.html
Sort of off topic but I found it interesting. US Marshall caught on video destroying the cell phone of a bystander. Evidently we have first amendment rights to record officers as long as we don't interfere with their job.

 

[SStarr33]

In this video at about :45, you can see him standing on the back part of the van:

http://cnnios-f.akamaihd.net/i/cnn/...650,840,1240,.mp4.csmil/master.m3u8?__b__=650

Since they said he was irate in the back of the van and that is why they had to put him in leg irons, I'm wondering if the comments on the FB page might be correct. The testimony from the other prisoner is going to be interesting. If it exonerates the police, I hope they put him in the witness protection program.

 

[mysteriew]

Wish we had a nurse in here. From what I know of injuries a broken bone (vertebrae) will cause pain and swelling.
Further movement causes more pain, more swelling and endangers the spinal cord. They are making a big deal because Mr Gray was talking when he went into the van and he wasn't when he came out. But that doesn't really tell us anything because the more time, the more swelling the more movement the more more damage. So yes it shows a deteriation in his condition, but doesn't really tell us if it was due to damage being done or the bodys response to previous damage.

One other thing I noted. Gray was not cursing when he went into the van. He was not forming any words at all, only groans.

 

[SStarr33]

Wish we had a nurse in here. From what I know of injuries a broken bone (vertebrae) will cause pain and swelling.
Further movement causes more pain, more swelling and endangers the spinal cord. They are making a big deal because Mr Gray was talking when he went into the van and he wasn't when he came out. But that doesn't really tell us anything because the more time, the more swelling the more movement the more more damage. So yes it shows a deteriation in his condition, but doesn't really tell us if it was due to damage being done or the bodys response to previous damage.

One other thing I noted. Gray was not cursing when he went into the van. He was not forming any words at all, only groans.

Looks like he was talking to me in the video I just posted--see at about :50

 

[popsicle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YV0EtkWyno

At 1:45 ir appears his legs are in between the front tire of the bike.

At 1:51 an officer appears to check his pockets. He appears to have something then he picks up what is on the ground, then its in his hand it looks like a phone?. jmo idk

I will say that he was talking and did go in the wagon but cnn decided that placing their banner there would prevent you from seeing if he was using his right left which is the one he was dragging. It did appear that he was probably hit with the bike and I am sure his leg was hurting but not broke according to link provided. It seems that what happened happened from it left that scene. jmo idk

There were no broken limbs or other injury to his body.

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/charging-documents-freddie-gray-ran-from-police/32468120

On youtube if you click that little wheel looking thingy in the bottom right corner, you can slow the video down. It appears he goes into the van himself with only an officer holding his cuffed arms. He also turns his head towards the direction of the recorder and says something. :dunno:

 

[leah]

According to post #41 the article linked, says Gray had a crushed voice box, he may have been talking going in the van, but obviously something happened in the van to cause that.

 

[popsicle]

My understanding is that they are in separate cages back there. No LEO is back there.

 

[leah]

Something had to have happened inside that van, I don't know how or who did what, but you don't come out worse then when you went in, unless most of the damage was done before he was put in the van?

 

[jjenny]

Something had to have happened inside that van, I don't know how or who did what, but you don't come out worse then when you went in, unless most of the damage was done before he was put in the van?

If his vertebrae was broken, him being in a van could have caused further damage to his spinal cord because his neck was not secure.
He seemed to be in pain and dragging his legs even before being put into the van. That's why car crush victims are put in neck brace fro transport if head/neck trauma is suspected.

 

[popsicle]

CNN just said they have brand new video of the arrest coming up next.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This one has me perplexed.