MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[Friday Fan]

Saw this Baltimore Sun article about his injuries:

(Newbie - hope the link works etc)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

Freddie Gray's spinal injury suggests 'forceful trauma,' doctors say

Gray's family has said he underwent surgery at Maryland Shock Trauma Center for three fractured neck vertebrae and a crushed voice box — injuries doctors said are more common among the elderly or victims of high-speed crashes.

"You have to apply a significant amount of force in order to break somebody's neck," said Dr. Ali Bydon, an associate professor of neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

In other cases, hyperextension of the neck either forward or backward can cause vertebrae to fracture, crushing the spinal cord.

Bydon cited the case of a 57-year-old Alabama man who was paralyzed in February after being handcuffed and thrown to the ground, suffering a severe neck injury. Handcuffs prevent a person from being able to brace themselves in a fall, placing pressure on the head and neck when they land, he said.

 

[SStarr33]

He sure looks to me like he has no control over his lower body, just like a rag doll. And the screaming, sounds like pain to me, not just some random screams because he didn't want to be arrested.

It's pretty common:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=542_1270465323

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZoLpLSju9Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co9sGif_rps

Found these with a quick google.

 

[leah]

Welcome Friday Fan And he had a crushed voice box, how does that happen, a forceful knee on someone's throat?? A choke hold?? I really don't know.

 

[Tawny]

I can't fathom a situation in which someone crushes their own voice box and breaks their own vertebrae. IF he did something like fall from a height or jump from something, and then he's screaming in pain and refusing/can't move his legs... the officers should have called for an ambulance.

Watching them haul him to the van and throw him in is sickening. NO compassion whatsoever.

Question: I've browsed but didn't see the answers anywhere... I saw someone mention he ran as soon as she saw police in the area. Were they looking for him specifically? Why was he arrested? If he ran simply because he saw them and they weren't looking for him, why give chase? Is it illegal to run away from officers who aren't arresting you?

 

[Friday Fan]

Welcome Friday Fan And he had a crushed voice box, how does that happen, a forceful knee on someone's throat?? A choke hold?? I really don't know.

I don't know either, but the Baltimore Sun article indicated that being thrown to the ground while wearing handcuffs can cause severe neck injuries because the neck is stuck in hyperextension while the front of the head is forced on the ground. Kinda scary...

 

[leah]

I can't fathom a situation in which someone crushes their own voice box and breaks their own vertebrae. IF he did something like fall from a height or jump from something, and then he's screaming in pain and refusing/can't move his legs... the officers should have called for an ambulance.

Watching them haul him to the van and throw him in is sickening. NO compassion whatsoever.

Question: I've browsed but didn't see the answers anywhere... I saw someone mention he ran as soon as she saw police in the area. Were they looking for him specifically? Why was he arrested? If he ran simply because he saw them and they weren't looking for him, why give chase? Is it illegal to run away from officers who aren't arresting you?

There were two men that ran, the police lost the other guy. I heard it on the news, and hoping someone can back this up, I heard that several times. I haven't heard or saw anywhere that the police were looking for him, I'm sure during the press conference yesterday that would have been brought up?

 

[EllieBee]

Do you know what was up with the bikes? Were they the police's bikes?

No idea. I honestly didn't pay much attention until you asked, then I went back to look. I'd make a poor eyewitness!

 

[leah]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/21/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-death/index.html


"The officer noticed a knife clipped to the inside of (Gray's) front right pants pocket. The defendant was arrested without force or incident," the documents say. "The knife was recovered by this officer and found to be a spring assisted, one-hand-operated knife." The mayor has questioned whether police should have pursued Gray in the first place.

"It is not necessarily probable cause to chase someone. So, we still have questions," Rawlings-Blake said.

 

[leah]

No idea. I honestly didn't pay much attention until you asked, then I went back to look. I'd make a poor eyewitness!

According to the article I just posted, three officers were on bikes.

 

[MissSunshine]

Bicycle police are out in Baltimore when the weather starts to warm-up. Sometimes there are police on horseback downtown.

The area Mr. Gray was in is a high crime area with lots of drugs and violence. It is said that Mr. Gray saw Le and took off running and police gave chase, which I am guessing was on their bikes. It is not clear if they saw or suspected him of doing something illegal. I haven't heard anything about the LE who arrested him assaulting him or anything. Usually there are people saying something...

He looks hurt to me prior to being put in the paddywagon. His one foot is turned out. If he was injured prior to that, moving him all around and not properly securing him in the wagon would hurt him further.

 

[MissSunshine]

The Justice Department says it has opened a federal investigation after a man died of spinal injuries he suffered after an arrest in Baltimore.

Spokeswoman Dena Iverson announced the investigation Tuesday by the department's Civil Rights Division.

http://foxbaltimore.com/m/news/feat...more-Police-Custody-Death-.shtml#.VTazuhDD_qA

 

[MsFacetious]

Yep CNN is discussing it now.

 

[popsicle]

Hundreds of very angry protesters in the streets - CNN. They said thousands but it didn't look like thousands to me jmo.

 

[mysteriew]

Watching the video the first time I noted him not moving his legs. And I thought like the video lady said that maybe his leg was broke. Then I also considered that sometimes in an arrest the suspect doesn't actually resist...... they just passively go limp. Well I rewatched video and now I am back to he was injured before they put him in the van.

I do want to rewatch it and observe what he is doing with leg that isn't dragging, I really haven't focused on that.
But that will be later tonight when I am not babysitting the DGS.

 

[MissSunshine]

I was just in the area about 40 minutes ago, just driving through to get somewhere, and it was seemed to be very peaceful. The police had some streets blocked from traffic and there was a cop car following behind the group. There were many more people gathered where Mr. Gray was arrested at and there were blue balloons on the corner.

A local reporter guy, he writes his own paper, was detained and released for jumping the barricade at the police station, he posted a selfie from police station but, other than that, I haven't heard about any other issues.

 

[i.b.nora]

CNN has been covering it for the last couple of hours with some live coverage. The mayor was just on with Anderson. Lots of questions, lots of anger, no answers.

 

[EllieBee]

Watching the video the first time I noted him not moving his legs. And I thought like the video lady said that maybe his leg was broke. Then I also considered that sometimes in an arrest the suspect doesn't actually resist...... they just passively go limp. Well I rewatched video and now I am back to he was injured before they put him in the van.

I do want to rewatch it and observe what he is doing with leg that isn't dragging, I really haven't focused on that.
But that will be later tonight when I am not babysitting the DGS.

If this man hadn't been hospitalized with severe spinal injuries, I would be inclined to agree that he was just being passively aggressive and forcing the LEOs to drag him rather than walk.

Knowing what we now know, it appears this man was fatally injured prior to his arrest and was subsequently mistreated,resulting in his death.

BTW, that video is horrifying and I lost a lot of sleep last night hearing those screams. I seriously cannot imagine.....

 

[mysteriew]

I'm not seeing the passive limpness of impeding arrest. When they lifted him to his feet he appeared to be attempting to stand but had difficulty.

With this viewing I noticed something else though. LE stands him on his feet and almost immediately start dragging him.
I would have expected them to try to walk with him. But I am not seeing that. They stand him up and start dragging him. Like they were not expecting him to walk. Like I said when they stood him up he appeared to be trying to stand, but by the time they got him to the van his leg appeared limp .

 

[EllieBee]

I'm not seeing the passive limpness of impeding arrest. When they lifted him to his feet he appeared to be attempting to stand but had difficulty.

With this viewing I noticed something else though. LE stands him on his feet and almost immediately start dragging him.
I would have expected them to try to walk with him. But I am not seeing that. They stand him up and start dragging him. Like they were not expecting him to walk.

I agree. They knew they had caused him severe harm. Anyone could see that.

Which is why that statement about the arrest going down with no apparent harm makes me want to puke.
He was OBVIOUSLY seriously injured IMMEDIATELY DURING OR AFTER THE ARREST.

This did not happen in the paddy wagon. C'mon, man.

 

[SStarr33]

I'm not seeing the passive limpness of impeding arrest. When they lifted him to his feet he appeared to be attempting to stand but had difficulty.

With this viewing I noticed something else though. LE stands him on his feet and almost immediately start dragging him.
I would have expected them to try to walk with him. But I am not seeing that. They stand him up and start dragging him. Like they were not expecting him to walk. Like I said when they stood him up he appeared to be trying to stand, but by the time they got him to the van his leg appeared limp .

Does your video have slow motion? I am having trouble seeing WTH is going on.