MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[SStarr33]

This is going to appear off topic but please bear with me:

I have broken bones in both my feet at different times. Both times I got up and walked a short distance. When it first happened there was no swelling. After walking there was localized swelling and it was getting more painful.
I kept it elevated but by the time I got to a medical facility it was extremely painful, and I wouldn't have dreamed of touching it to the floor. Swelling was worse also.

The bones in the feet are small, they take time to produce swelling. But as time went by it got more swollen and more painful. I think that is what was happening with Mr Gray.

there were no broken foot bones

 

[Zuri]

This is going to appear off topic but please bear with me:

I have broken bones in both my feet at different times. Both times I got up and walked a short distance. When it first happened there was no swelling. After walking there was localized swelling and it was getting more painful.
I kept it elevated but by the time I got to a medical facility it was extremely painful, and I wouldn't have dreamed of touching it to the floor. Swelling was worse also.

The bones in the feet are small, they take time to produce swelling. But as time went by it got more swollen and more painful. I think that is what was happening with Mr Gray.

I am wondering if pieces of his cervical spine within the spinal column, caused the "80%" transection. The soft tissue injuries you describe certainly make sense, which could have played a part in his difficulty breathing. I wish an ambulance would have been called. Do you think the officers thought he was faking?

 

[Tawny]

No it is more a "whiplash" effect. The force hitting the throat pushes the head back beyond normal range. If force is severe enough it will actually break the vertebrae.

Thanks for that explanation! That makes sense. Sometimes I need it broken down kindergarten style

 

[mysteriew]

Agreed most certainly. The OP asked about asthmatics and seizures, which is why my response was worded that way. Mr. Gray did not seem to be in acute respiratory distress initially on video as his moans were audible, and didn't seem to have trouble moving air. But I didn't hear him speaking which would give me pause. Also, the front of his jeans appeared wet, as in incontinence.

If a clothesline tackle was used, was it the bicycle cops or did Mr. Gray run into something?

Good point. It could have been either. Though I think the police department would have been quick to point out if he had run into anything.

 

[Tawny]

Can you speak with a fx larynx? Because if you can't, I 'm not sure how he asked for an inhaler.

That, to me is evidence that this happened after he got in the van.

If it happened in the van, why couldn't he walk or talk before that?

A person can ask for something without speaking. It would be fairly easy to mime "inhaler". All speculation, of course.

 

[Zuri]

Can you speak with a fx larynx? Because if you can't, I 'm not sure how he asked for an inhaler.

That, to me is evidence that this happened after he got in the van.

You can move air, thus sound, but I don't know how he asked for his inhaler either. The rapidly increasing soft tissue swelling is going to eventually occlude his airway I would think.

 

[mysteriew]

there were no broken foot bones

Lol no there weren't. But the bones and structures in the neck are small like the structures in the feet are small. IOW body responses might have taken longer to develop and become apparent.

 

[SStarr33]

If it happened in the van, why couldn't he walk or talk before that?

A person can ask for something without speaking. It would be fairly easy to mime "inhaler". All speculation, of course.

It looked like he could stand and talk to me.

 

[Zuri]

In my head, I am picturing hyperextension of his neck, maybe subluxing his cervical spine. But the tracheal fracture has me stumped. Did he hit that wall? Or something stationary as he was running, which is why he was arrested without incident after running away?

http://www.sw.org/HealthLibrary?page=Cervical Subluxation

 

[jjenny]

It looked like he could stand and talk to me.

He clearly was injured before being placed into the van (unless they are going to claim he was malingering). They had to carry him, his legs were dragging behind him.

 

[mysteriew]

I am wondering if pieces of his cervical spine within the spinal column, caused the "80%" transection. The soft tissue injuries you describe certainly make sense, which could have played a part in his difficulty breathing. I wish an ambulance would have been called. Do you think the officers thought he was faking?

IMO I think it may have been a combination. Thinking he was faking and the apparent attention from the neighborhood. It would probably be pretty unnerving to make an arrest, not sure how the neighborhood would react and having to stay alert in case someone began to interfere.

 

[SStarr33]

That would kind of resolve the problem for the officers. And since there were no officers in the van, no danger of getting anyone else in trouble. And no cameras to refute what they are saying.

There was a prisoner in the van. He will either support or refute the story told by LE

 

[SStarr33]

He clearly was injured before being placed into the van (unless they are going to claim he was malingering). They had to carry him, his legs were dragging behind him.

He is clearly standing on the van.

 

[jjenny]

I am wondering if pieces of his cervical spine within the spinal column, caused the "80%" transection. The soft tissue injuries you describe certainly make sense, which could have played a part in his difficulty breathing. I wish an ambulance would have been called. Do you think the officers thought he was faking?

I certainly believe they thought he was faking. Otherwise they should have called an ambulance when he couldn't walk.

 

[Zuri]

http://nba.uth.tmc.edu/neuroscience/m/s2/chapter03.html

Has it been reported which vertebra were fractured? I am assuming lower cervical? Or no?

 

[SStarr33]

I certainly believe they thought he was faking. Otherwise they should have called an ambulance when he couldn't walk.

He's had 20 previous arrests. I wonder if that is the way he always responds to an arrest.

 

[Woodland]

Just in: Full statement from Baltimore Fraternal Order of Police regarding #FreddieGray

https://twitter.com/elizondogabriel/status/590985745017503746/photo/1

Find this statement from the attached letter from Gene Ryan interesting -

'We are not concerned with the community's confidence in the investigation; ...

Eight years ago, in 2007, he wrote the following regarding Baltimore officers charged with bribery -

"If they're wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. … Police officers are held to a higher standard. If they did what they are accused of, they make us all look bad."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-towing-scandal-20141114-story.html

Looks to me like a deterioration in his thought process and ethics for the citizens of Baltimore.

 

[jjenny]

In my head, I am picturing hyperextension of his neck, maybe subluxing his cervical spine. But the tracheal fracture has me stumped. Did he hit that wall? Or something stationary as he was running, which is why he was arrested without incident after running away?

http://www.sw.org/HealthLibrary?page=Cervical Subluxation

One of the witnesses describes him being on a ground bend like a "pretzel." I think that's when fracturing took place.
And when he was placed into a van, fractured vertebrae could have cut his spinal cord.

 

[MissSunshine]

I am not sure if this has been shared yet.

Freddie Gray was not secured properly in a police transport van initially after his arrest, police said. #FreddieGray fw.to/ww82jYB
7:02am - 22 Apr 15
https://mobile.twitter.com/justingeorge/status/590833038713610240

 

[Woodland]

Hopefully this link works - Gene Ryan thinks he may have reword likening citizens to a lynch mob (from the first link in post #157).

http://talkingupdate.com/news/search.php?q=Gene+Ryan