ME Report

[Teresa Larson]

Spine?

I was thinking C1 was her spine but I see now it is in the area of your neck.

 

[Fairy1]

There is a forensic anthropologist's report included in the ME report. She studied MJD's bone fusion and growth to determine her age, I believe.

Do you know if the dental exam was part of that?

ETA - does the report have a date? I'm just curious how long after the accident the autopsy occurred.

 

[BeavisMom62]

I was thinking C1 was her spine but I see now it is in the area of your neck.

Your neck is your spine. C1 is the very first vertebra of the cervical spine.

 

[Teresa Larson]

If you read a few posts back you'll see that I said her spine was messed up and I got questioned about it so that's why I rephrased it.

 

[believe09]

If you read a few posts back you'll see that I said her spine was messed up and I got questioned about it so that's why I rephrased it.

No worries...:blowkiss:

 

[BeavisMom62]

If you read a few posts back you'll see that I said her spine was messed up and I got questioned about it so that's why I rephrased it.

Ok, I get it.

 

[VASHLEY88]

Someone had mentioned something about dentals being with the ME report, I believe those don't come together.. you may have to apply for the dental stuff separately.

I know the drugs aren't really all that important, but I went through my pharm. cards and found..

Norchlorcyclizine Hydroxyzine:

INDICATIONS: Treatment of anxiety, Preoperative sedation, may be combined with opioids.
ACTION: Acts as a CNS depressant. Sedation, decreased nausea and vomiting.
IMPLEMENTATION: Intramuscular or tablet


LIDOCAINE: (this is what I believe it was given to her for, since lidocaine would have to be in a substantial amount to appear on the toxicology report)
INDICATIONS: Ventricular arrhythmia (heart), may sometimes be injected IM during transport to hospital facilities of IV is unavailable
ACTION: Intravenously: Supresses automaticity and spontaneous depolarization of the ventricles during diastole by altering the flux of sodium ions across cell membranes with little or no effect on heart rate.

Lidocaine can also be used as a local anesthetic.


Just to clear the air about what was tested positive in her system..

 

[Zanko]

The dental information is at this link.

But so far I haven't seen any more info. I'd be interested in knowing how they looked. Front teeth large? Noticeable gaps? Large incisors? Anything distinguishing?

 

[Fairy1]

Someone had mentioned something about dentals being with the ME report, I believe those don't come together.. you may have to apply for the dental stuff separately.

I know the drugs aren't really all that important, but I went through my pharm. cards and found..

Norchlorcyclizine Hydroxyzine:

INDICATIONS: Treatment of anxiety, Preoperative sedation, may be combined with opioids.
ACTION: Acts as a CNS depressant. Sedation, decreased nausea and vomiting.
IMPLEMENTATION: Intramuscular or tablet


LIDOCAINE: (this is what I believe it was given to her for, since lidocaine would have to be in a substantial amount to appear on the toxicology report)
INDICATIONS: Ventricular arrhythmia (heart), may sometimes be injected IM during transport to hospital facilities of IV is unavailable
ACTION: Intravenously: Supresses automaticity and spontaneous depolarization of the ventricles during diastole by altering the flux of sodium ions across cell membranes with little or no effect on heart rate.

Lidocaine can also be used as a local anesthetic.


Just to clear the air about what was tested positive in her system..

So I'm thinking these drugs were given to her during the course of treatment in the hospital??? Does anyone know if traces of marijuana would still have been in her system at the time of autopsy? I don't know how long it stays in your system. Would they have taken some of her hair for toxicology testing or just blood and/or tissue? I know drugs can be found in hair for months and months. I'd be curious to know if she was a habitual drug user and if so, what kind of drugs.

 

[VASHLEY88]

So I'm thinking these drugs were given to her during the course of treatment in the hospital??? Does anyone know if traces of marijuana would still have been in her system at the time of autopsy? I don't know how long it stays in your system. Would they have taken some of her hair for toxicology testing or just blood and/or tissue? I know drugs can be found in hair for months and months. I'd be curious to know if she was a habitual drug user and if so, what kind of drugs.

Yes, THC would still be present in her system. Which baffles me, because if she was smoking marijuana with LDJ and ADF, it would show up. But like I said before, it's not unheard of for a ME to not test for THC because it isn't potentially toxic. In this case, I'd imagine they would though to verify Alonzo/William and LDJ's stories.

Yes, the lidocaine would be from the course of treatment most likely provided by the air lifting paramedics, if not, then administered at the hospital.

The hydroxyzine compound, however, might have recreational value. Since it acts on the CNS as a depressent. But more than likely if she was taking sedatives recreationally, she would have used benzodiazapines (i.e. valium, klonopin, ativan, xanax) or barbiturates. Perhaps she suffered from an anxiety disorder?.. and maybe that's why she freaked out?.. She may have been taking a prescription drug to control it.

 

[Fairy1]

Yes, THC would still be present in her system. Which baffles me, because if she was smoking marijuana with LDJ and ADF, it would show up. But like I said before, it's not unheard of for a ME to not test for THC because it isn't potentially toxic. In this case, I'd imagine they would though to verify Alonzo/William and LDJ's stories.

Yes, the lidocaine would be from the course of treatment most likely provided by the air lifting paramedics, if not, then administered at the hospital.

The hydroxyzine compound, however, might have recreational value. Since it acts on the CNS as a depressent. But more than likely if she was taking sedatives recreationally, she would have used benzodiazapines (i.e. valium, klonopin, ativan, xanax) or barbiturates. Perhaps she suffered from an anxiety disorder?.. and maybe that's why she freaked out?.. She may have been taking a prescription drug to control it.

Yeah - I was thinking they would test for marijuana just because ADF said that's what they were doing. A lot of what I found on the hydroxyzine said it can be used to control motion sickness and I thought if she said she was going to throw up in the car that maybe she suffered from car sickness. Then again, I doubt someone in that car just happened to have some handy! It makes more sense to me that the hospital gave it to her when she was on life support. I know when my Mom was on support, they kept her heavily sedated to keep her still and calm. But I would like to know how the tox screen was done. If they tested her hair, it should show what drugs she used prior to her death. Do you know if the hospital would have done a tox screen when she was first brought in?

 

[annemc2]

They most likely did a tox screen in the ER, just to rule out substance use/abuse as to why she had been injured (eg if she had taken PCP and jumped out of the window).

The tox screen can also be used to formulate course of treatment - like if she was full of opiates they would have to be extra careful when giving pain meds, or she might need medicine to reverse the opiates if she had too much in her system.

Yeah the hydroxyzine thing is strange. Usually people with anxiety disorders get that Rx when their physician doesn't want to give them benzos. It's used a lot as a "placebo" type of drug for anxiety. It's also used for the itchies. It seems like it would be a pretty lame thing to be on as a "street" drug. I just don't really see it happening.

Sure would be amazing to see those hospital records...but I don't see that happening, either!

 

[Fairy1]

They most likely did a tox screen in the ER, just to rule out substance use/abuse as to why she had been injured (eg if she had taken PCP and jumped out of the window).

The tox screen can also be used to formulate course of treatment - like if she was full of opiates they would have to be extra careful when giving pain meds, or she might need medicine to reverse the opiates if she had too much in her system.

Yeah the hydroxyzine thing is strange. Usually people with anxiety disorders get that Rx when their physician doesn't want to give them benzos. It's used a lot as a "placebo" type of drug for anxiety. It's also used for the itchies. It seems like it would be a pretty lame thing to be on as a "street" drug. I just don't really see it happening.

Sure would be amazing to see those hospital records...but I don't see that happening, either!

Thanks! This is exactly what I was thinking! The only reason I'm interested in her drug "history" is that it may help to establish - once and for all - if she was a prostitute as I know that is a common characteristic of those in the trade. It may also help us to narrow down who she associated with in Phoenix. OTOH - if she was taking presription drugs, we might be able to find a doctor or medical clinic she frequented in that area. I don't know how hospitals handle trauma patients, but I would assume they have to do a tox screen to determine the safest course of treatment.

 

[VASHLEY88]

Thanks! This is exactly what I was thinking! The only reason I'm interested in her drug "history" is that it may help to establish - once and for all - if she was a prostitute as I know that is a common characteristic of those in the trade. It may also help us to narrow down who she associated with in Phoenix. OTOH - if she was taking presription drugs, we might be able to find a doctor or medical clinic she frequented in that area. I don't know how hospitals handle trauma patients, but I would assume they have to do a tox screen to determine the safest course of treatment.

To answer your question about the tox screen.. she probably had one as soon as she arrived in the ER, like what was stated above is exactly right-- to make sure she did not need an antidote or to make sure she didn't have anything in her system that would cause an adverse reaction with what drugs they may need to administer.

The hydroxyzine was probably from an anti-anxiety medication. I may be wrong, though. But sometimes trauma patients frequently vomit.. and that may be what it was used for. But I've never heard of hydroxyzine being administered, usually phenergan is given to them.

On a side note-- I was prescribed a drug called Vistaril a few months back for a panic attack after I told them I didn't want Valium as it is too sedating.. and I am just now coming to find that it's the same thing that was in her system (hydroxyzine).

It can also be used to control allergies.. so perhaps our MJD had an allergy and took a prescription. I think it's important to know as a clinic or pharmacy may have valuable information..

 

[Fairy1]

To answer your question about the tox screen.. she probably had one as soon as she arrived in the ER, like what was stated above is exactly right-- to make sure she did not need an antidote or to make sure she didn't have anything in her system that would cause an adverse reaction with what drugs they may need to administer.

The hydroxyzine was probably from an anti-anxiety medication. I may be wrong, though. But sometimes trauma patients frequently vomit.. and that may be what it was used for. But I've never heard of hydroxyzine being administered, usually phenergan is given to them.

On a side note-- I was prescribed a drug called Vistaril a few months back for a panic attack after I told them I didn't want Valium as it is too sedating.. and I am just now coming to find that it's the same thing that was in her system (hydroxyzine).

It can also be used to control allergies.. so perhaps our MJD had an allergy and took a prescription. I think it's important to know as a clinic or pharmacy may have valuable information..

Thank you! So do we need her medical records from the hospital?

 

[VASHLEY88]

Thank you! So do we need her medical records from the hospital?

If it's at all possible, I think it would be a good idea. A waiver may have to be signed or something, though. I would like to know if the hydroxyzine was given to her at the hospital or en route to the hospital.. because it's sooo important to know if she had been taking a prescription medication. They'd need a name, address, social security number, an emergency contact, primary care physician, yada yada yada if she checked herself in somewhere. I was just thinking that if she went into a walk-in clinic and got a RX for Vistaril or what have you, it would make sense that if she had an anxiety disorder they wouldn't give her any controlled substances (like benzodiazepines) for fear that she may become addicted or sell them on the street if they knew she was a "street kid". Hospitals/clinics/pharmacies have to keep record of these things. I don't know how long they have to, but if that drug got into her system before she jumped out of the vehicle, there is a good chance that some backtracking could get her a name from a presciption or doctor visit. It may be tedius, but I don't think it's an impossible feat..

 

[Fairy1]

If it's at all possible, I think it would be a good idea. A waiver may have to be signed or something, though. I would like to know if the hydroxyzine was given to her at the hospital or en route to the hospital.. because it's sooo important to know if she had been taking a prescription medication. They'd need a name, address, social security number, an emergency contact, primary care physician, yada yada yada if she checked herself in somewhere. I was just thinking that if she went into a walk-in clinic and got a RX for Vistaril or what have you, it would make sense that if she had an anxiety disorder they wouldn't give her any controlled substances (like benzodiazepines) for fear that she may become addicted or sell them on the street if they knew she was a "street kid". Hospitals/clinics/pharmacies have to keep record of these things. I don't know how long they have to, but if that drug got into her system before she jumped out of the vehicle, there is a good chance that some backtracking could get her a name from a presciption or doctor visit. It may be tedius, but I don't think it's an impossible feat..

Well - if we can't get her medical records, LE can. And they SHOULD!!! I'm not sure what's happening in her case right now, but I do think this is a given - if there is any hope in identifying MJD. I don't care what AFD or LDJ had to do with her death - just want to know who she is! Seems to me there were many stones unturned in the original investigation. Jeez :furious:

 

[Cubby]

If it's at all possible, I think it would be a good idea. A waiver may have to be signed or something, though. I would like to know if the hydroxyzine was given to her at the hospital or en route to the hospital.. because it's sooo important to know if she had been taking a prescription medication. They'd need a name, address, social security number, an emergency contact, primary care physician, yada yada yada if she checked herself in somewhere. I was just thinking that if she went into a walk-in clinic and got a RX for Vistaril or what have you, it would make sense that if she had an anxiety disorder they wouldn't give her any controlled substances (like benzodiazepines) for fear that she may become addicted or sell them on the street if they knew she was a "street kid". Hospitals/clinics/pharmacies have to keep record of these things. I don't know how long they have to, but if that drug got into her system before she jumped out of the vehicle, there is a good chance that some backtracking could get her a name from a presciption or doctor visit. It may be tedius, but I don't think it's an impossible feat..

Would they give a script to a minor without adult consent? If she didn't get a job at the strip club, she wouldn't have any false id of any kind indicating she was of legal age.

 

[phenolred]

I also was prescribed this drug as ATATRAX, which is just another BRAND name for the same drug, it was for a serious case of posion Ivy. In regards to THC in her system I am wondering if that was the FIRST time she had ever smoked it and only took a couple of drags if that would of had time to show up in a drug screen in the hospital. It doesnt seem like it would have time to get into her blood stream???

 

[phenolred]

I Looked up Tox screens in Emergency Medince.

This is what I found

A toxicology screen refers to various tests to determine the type and approximate amount of legal and illegal drugs a person has taken

This test is often done in emergency medical situations. It can be used to evaluate possible accidental or intentional overdose or poisoning. It may help determine the cause of acute drug toxicity, to monitor drug dependency, and to determine the presence of substances in the body for medical or legal purposes.
Additional reasons the test may be performed:and one of them was

Unconscious patient



If the test is used as a drug screen, it must be done during a certain time period after the drug is taken or while forms of the drug can still be detected in the body. Examples are below:

• Alcohol: 3 to 10 hours
• Amphetamines: 24 to 48 hours
• Barbiturates: up to 6 weeks
• Benzodiazepines: up to 6 weeks with high level use
• Cocaine: 2 to 4 days; up to 10 to 22 days with heavy use
• Codeine: 1 to 2 days
• Heroin: 1 to 2 days
• Hydromorphone: 1 to 2 days
• Methadone: 2 to 3 days
• Morphine: 1 to 2 days
• Phencyclidine (PCP): 1 to 8 days
• Propoxyphene: 6 to 48 hours
• Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC): 6 to 11 weeks with heavy use