Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #13

[OldSteve]

Another article on about today's proceeding:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_italy_knox

 

[Allusonz]

From a bad Google translation, but it does not look to promising. Franks Sfarzo's idea of Guede or MK's new boyfriend having a drug debt is MUCH more realistic. This does not look good:

From a Google Translatehttp://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/2011/05/21/509949-processo_meredith_risultati_della_nuova_perizia_entro_giugno.shtml
FOR THE OFFICE OF PROMPT: "MARIO ALESSI GAVE IMPORTANT"

" Mario Alessi gave indications quite important during the testimony given in front of us defenders last year, and now we'll see if he says the same things. "

This was stated by one of the lawyers for Raffaele Sollecito, the lawyer Luca Maori , told reporters after today's hearing of the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Maori said that the statements were videotaped for Alessi by the defense . "We have brought to the attention of the Court - concluded - which now has some interesting ideas to be heard."

The lawyer then spoke of a letter sent to the defense of Alessi would urge "to include certain facts and circumstances" but that lawyers were not able to view.
"Sara 'maybe this is an opportunity to have this important document," concluded Maori.

And the reliability of the assassination of Tommaso Onofri Legal notices the answer : "Mario Alessi trusted? You must tell the Court, not us.''E 'this fact, the comment of the lawyer after the hearing today in the process second-degree murder of Meredith Kercher.

Alessi, who was sentenced to life imprisonment for the kidnapping and murder of little Tommaso Onofri in March 2006 in Casal Baroncolo (Parma), claimed to have learned from Rudy Guede with which he was detained in prison in Viterbo that Sollecito and Amanda Knox Kercher murder are strangers, but made ​​by a friend dell'ivoriano.

Guede (finally sentenced to 16 years for the murder of British student) has however argued that it never did confide to Alessi and not to have spoken with him stories of their proceedings.

The mason had then made ​​a statement to urge that the defenders had lodged.

"THE LETTER AND THE PRISONER 'offensive'. In the words of defender of the family Francesco Maresca Kercher

For the Kercher family lawyer, the lawyer Francesco Maresca , the letter sent by an inmate of the prison of Vercelli, who claims to know Meredith's principal and murderess, is "objectively offensive to the memory of the poor girl."

In the letter it is written that Meredith was killed because she accumulated a huge debt of drugs . "I have nothing to say about this person, added the lawyer - I do not know and I have no interest in knowing."

As for the evidence of Alessi , according to Maresca, and his testimony '"completely useless". The lawyer feels rather 'important' that the expert stated Vecchiotti Carla, "the fact that all the material available to them and 'sufficient for the completion of scientific expertise," even if it defines' duty' the decision of the Court of admission of new texts.

I am thinking there may be a loss in translation here. I do not believe that it is MK that probably there was an issue with regarding a drug debt especially considering that she had only been in Perugia a short time.

Now a BF i could see that there might be a drug debt/issue. I think we will have to wait and see what details he did not disclose

 

[Allusonz]

Yes, did not expect it so early--is Italy 5 hours ahead of NY? But why does the news make no mention of Napoleoni???:waitasec:

Yes I wonder where she was as well. Have not heard a thing with her hhhhhmmmmmmmm

 

[SMK]

I am thinking there may be a loss in translation here. I do not believe that it is MK that probably there was an issue with regarding a drug debt especially considering that she had only been in Perugia a short time.

Now a BF i could see that there might be a drug debt/issue. I think we will have to wait and see what details he did not disclose

I hope you are right. I can see Guede or MK's boyfriend having run up a debt, and MK getting caught in the middle of a robbery or altercation about this. But Meredith herself was too scholastic, and as you say only in Perugia a short time, and I do NOT believe that SHE ran up any drug debt, and her family is correct to find it offensive. If it is about her debt, it is only going to make things worse for Knox and Sollecito.

 

[SMK]

Another article on about today's proceeding:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_italy_knox

From Old Steve's article: as I have said, I only hope this will help and not just seem absurd jail talk:


The appeals court on Saturday set June 30 as a deadline for a key review of DNA evidence by independent forensic experts in the Knox case and allowed five new witnesses sought by the defense — all inmates in Italian prisons who claim they have information clearing Knox and her Italian co-defendant, Raffaele Sollecito.

 

[Allusonz]

Ugh, I'm always leery of jailhouse snitches...sure, they're a useful tool, but it's a tool that is just too easy to abuse, and always seemed to me to be too close to pure hearsay to use in a court of law. Unless multiple snitches are saying essentially the same thing here, I'm not going to give much weight to them, and I doubt the court will either.

Normally I am as well but Mario Alessi is one that I would like to hear more from. He probably has the least to gain from speaking of any of them

 

[Allusonz]

Note also that the letter starts out by insulting CNN - what is it with the leaders of the Guilters insulting those that they are theoretically trying to convince? Seems a bit counterproductive to me; but then again, I always felt that the all too common accusations regarding AK supporters being 'dirty old men' or dupes of some vast PR campaign (how rich are AK's parents supposed to be, to buy such influence?), or even better, that all of the pro AK people are just five people using many different names:waitasec:, to have no other affect than to throw all of their surrounding arguments into doubt, given how irrational the above mentioned comments make them sound...

Please note, the above commentary does not apply to the guilters on this board, who behave in an entirely different manner that does them great credit. I just wish that more guilters commenting on articles etc would hold themselves to such standards.

:welcome:

Great to have you here

 

[SMK]

Normally I am as well but Mario Alessi is one that I would like to hear more from. He probably has the least to gain from speaking of any of them

Yes, I had heard someone discussing the witnesses, and they said that they disagree with Aviello being called to testify because his claims are shaky and very suspect.

But that calling Alessi might be a very shrewd move, as his testimony about Guede's remarks was corroborated by three other inmates.

It would be doubtful, he said, that all of them would have motive to lie about what Guede said - and that this might be powerful testimony for the defense. I hope so.

 

[Allusonz]

Am going to have to send JBean and Salem a straight jacket!!! They will be pulling their hair out over this being extended :giggle:

 

[SMK]

I also finally figured out and verified that the mixed blood (and not mixed DNA) proposed by Mignini was actually rejected by Massei. So in this case, Mignini seems clueless.

 

[SMK]

Am going to have to send JBean and Salem a straight jacket!!! They will be pulling their hair out over this being extended :giggle:

Seriously, right???:floorlaugh:

 

[SkewedView]

For those that wonder at how the Italian legal system can be so highly doubted by some, it is a good idea to review the history of it, which reveals that the version that exists today is very new, relatively untested in its current configuration, and is a strange mixing of contradictory trial methods.

Please see here:
www.heuni.fi/uploads/jrrqu.doc



To paraphrase from the above:
The current criminal code was approved in 1988, replacing the previous one dating from 1930. That previous one was fascist in origin, and was purely inquisitorial in approach, not allowing for much in the way of a defense until it was reformed in 1955. Other revisions were attempted but not put into effect until the 1988 code.

The 1988 code switched from inquisitorial to accusatorial, and shifted the focus from obtaining evidence pre-trial to doing so during trial. However, the new code was never made a part of the Fundamental Law of the Republic, and so the Constitutional Court has since made many modifications to the code that essentially have made it function as a contradictory blend between the old and new systems, a very confusing state of affairs to say the least. (IMO, a large amount of the fault lies with the severely aging judiciary, which has always been more comfortable with the old ways).

It should be noted that the codes regulating the Judiciary itself originated in 1941, and while they have been modified since then, they still exist in essentially the same form as they did under the old criminal code (a state of affairs that IMO is very troubling).




I'll get into more detail in a later post, have to take care of some things first...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This might be the same article as others already posted:

Nation-World

Last Updated: May 21. 2011 11:22AM

Tearful Knox to court: I'm innocent
Alessandra Rizzo/ Associated Press
Perugia, Italy— A tearful Amanda Knox said today that being in prison is "very frustrating and mentally exhausting" as the American student convicted of murdering her roommate insisted she is innocent and does not want to spend the rest of her life behind bars.

Knox was emotional as she briefly addressed the appeals court in Perugia at the end of the session, her voice breaking at times and her eyes tearing up. She was convicted in 2009 of sexually assaulting and murdering British student Meredith Kercher, and sentenced to 26 years in prison. ..


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110521...ful-Knox-to-court--I’m-innocent#ixzz1N0fiuUxJ

 

[SMK]

From the Daily Beast:

Amanda Knox was accused of murder three-and-a-half years ago, but as her appeal takes yet another twist, there's more confusion surrounding the crime than ever. By Barbie Latza Nadeau

In what has come to feel more like a tragicomedy than a serious court process, the ongoing trial—now in the appellate phase—for the murder of Meredith Kercher took yet another turn for the bizarre.

For the first time in this now-epic case, Knox, the quirky Seattle native serving 26 years for her part in the murder, seemed like the only person who was taking things seriously Saturday. She entered court with her head down, wearing a beige satin shirt and black slacks—a far cry from her usual Beatles T-shirts and casual hoodies. She looked tense and afraid. Her hair was tied back and she made little eye contact with anyone except her father, Curt Knox, and her best friend, Madison Paxton, who sat behind her.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-21/amanda-knox-trial-the-tragicomedy-of-her-appeal/?cid=hp:mainpromo5#

 

[SMK]

Their new deadline, which had been May 9, was extended to June 30, at which time the court will be given another month to review their results before they are presented on July 25, 29, and 30.

In the meantime, the court granted a defense request to hear five new witnesses. Oddly —or maybe not for this case—all five witnesses are already in prison, serving time for everything from baby killing to drug trafficking. Luciano Aviello, serving time for Mafia collusion, says his brother, who is on the lam, murdered Kercher. And Mario Alessi, serving a life sentence for kidnapping and killing a 17-month-old child, says he heard Guede admit to killing Kercher alone during a prison yard chat. Three prisoners who back up his story will also testify. The five inmates will be heard on June 18 and 27.

And just last week, another prison letter arrived at the defense lawyers’ offices, this time from Tommaso Pace, who makes the preposterous claim that Kercher was a heavy-drug user and says he has proof that two unnamed brothers were paid €100,000 to off her due to her drug debts. In the letter, obtained by The Daily Beast, Pace states that Knox, Sollecito, and Rudy Guede are all innocent.

After the witnesses and experts testify, the court will adjourn for a summer break and pick up again in September when the prosecution and defense lawyers will give their closing arguments.

A final verdict is expected in late September with three possible outcomes.

1. The verdict could be overturned and Knox could return home to Seattle;
2. she could be given a reduction in sentence like Guede, whose sentence was cut from 30 to 16 years on appeal; or
3. the appellate judge could uphold the verdict as it stands. (my emphasis and ennumeration - SMK)

If the verdict is not overturned, she will have one more chance, this time with Italy’s high court, to win her freedom.http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-21/amanda-knox-trial-the-tragicomedy-of-her-appeal/?cid=hp:mainpromo5#

 

[Allusonz]

Ok I am truly perplexed. How many of you recall cases of an inmate testifying for the defense?

Here it seems we have people falling over themselves willing to testify for the defense. I find this terribly odd

Where the heck is Napoleoni??? I have found no mention of her. Did I simply Imagine that she was to be at this court date???

 

[SMK]

Ok I am truly perplexed. How many of you recall cases of an inmate testifying for the defense?

Here it seems we have people falling over themselves willing to testify for the defense. I find this terribly odd

Where the heck is Napoleon??? I have found no mention of her. Did I simply Imagine that she was to be at this court date???

I agree. Inmates are usually testifying for the prosecution. I am also afraid that the testimony may seem seedy or dubious.

And no, I had read several places that Napolioni was to be in court today. She obviously cancelled out.

 

[SkewedView]

To continue my look at the Italian Criminal Justice System...

(see here: www.heuni.fi/uploads/jrrqu.doc )


First I am just going to copy paste this bit:

The Italian criminal law system had always been inquisitorial in character, with the investigations being carried out by the investigating judge who was assigned the gathering of the evidence. In many cases, the court hearing was merely a form of controlling the previous phase. This underwent a substantial change when the new Code came into force in 1989. This Code, following some proposals for legal changes, was clearly inspired by the North American accusatorial model. The investigating judge was replaced by the judge for preliminary investigations who had the task of controlling that the work being carried out by the public prosecutor was in compliance with the law and guaranteed the rights of the person being investigated. The evidence was not normally collected during this phase, but during the court hearings.

These basic characteristics of the Italian criminal law system have undergone significant changes, however, following the decisions of the Constitutional Court in 1992 which have already been mentioned. The greater possibility to collect probatory evidence even during the preliminary investigative phase has brought about particular changes in the Italian criminal law procedure. Most of its accusatorial character has given way to a mixed system which is largely criticised by some scholars as having lost it’s original coherent and systematic character.

I believe that bit speaks for itself...


Now, the Italian system allows for a variety of trial types, one of which has bearing here - the Abbreviated Trial, which RG was tried under.

Abbreviated trial (Giudizio abbreviato). A defendant may ask, with the consent of the public prosecutor, for a decision to be pronounced on the basis of the evidence collected during the preliminary phase. If the judge considers it possible to adjudicate on the basis of the said evidence, he/she pronounces the judgement. Where a sentence is pronounced, the penalty is reduced by one-third.

Please note, for RG's trial, all evidence used by the Judges and Juries involved was collected by the Prosecutor during pre-trial...this makes the Judgment of the Supreme Court w/r to the 'multiple attacker theory' questionable, to say the least, as it would have been based off of a skewed presentation of evidence with little chance of refutation by the defense, not that RG's attorneys would have wanted to refute it - indeed, it was to their advantage to go along with anything presented by the prosecution that lessened RG's burden of guilt, irregardless of the factual value of said evidence/assertions...


More later, have to get ready for a family jaunt to the park...

 

[SkewedView]

:welcome:

Great to have you here

Thank you! Don't worry about handing me a straight-jacket, I prefer the role of handing out the nice multicolored candy - try some, it'll make things look sooo much nicer! :crazy:

 

[SMK]

To continue my look at the Italian Criminal Justice System...

(see here: www.heuni.fi/uploads/jrrqu.doc )


First I am just going to copy paste this bit:





I believe that bit speaks for itself...


Now, the Italian system allows for a variety of trial types, one of which has bearing here - the Abbreviated Trial, which RG was tried under.





Please note, for RG's trial, all evidence used by the Judges and Juries involved was collected by the Prosecutor during pre-trial...this makes the Judgment of the Supreme Court w/r to the 'multiple attacker theory' questionable, to say the least, as it would have been based off of a skewed presentation of evidence with little chance of refutation by the defense, not that RG's attorneys would have wanted to refute it - indeed, it was to their advantage to go along with anything presented by the prosecution that lessened RG's burden of guilt, irregardless of the factual value of said evidence/assertions...


More later, have to get ready for a family jaunt to the park...

Have a good time, and thanks very much for this. Very interesting, and troublesome too.