Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[believe09]

everyone, this thread is getting out of hand...please stop responding to the poster and hit the alert button if you think a post crosses the line.

The thread is completely derailed at this point.

 

[SkewedView]

There is no minimum amount of DNA required for testing. The machines are designed to test DNA and the machine can be calibrated to read very low amounts of DNA ... so how do you arrive at the conclusion that the machine was not designed to read low amounts of DNA?

The manufacturer specifies in the instructions for the machine what ranges the machine is designed to operate under. Exceeding those ranges to gain a result invalidates any findings. That is a given in peer review in any field of science, including and especially in the forensic sciences. You don't hold tests that can toss someone in prison to a lower standard than a lab for a community college. Again, do you agree that the ends don't justify the means or not?


Also, please note that I did an ETA on the post of mine that you quoted.

 

[wasnt_me]

All right. Lunch was good. made me a sandwich.

Now, What I found interesting about this new book of Nina's is that she said RF's lawyer was there when Mignini showed up. This was Nov 2nd. What do you think of that? I'm just conjecturing, but the way she got a lawyer and then made sure she got her laptop out of there before police confiscated it leads me to believe she had something on it she didn't want the world knowing about. Again just speculating, but calling her lawyer to the scene when she had not a thing to do with the crime was weird in my opinion.

 

[wasnt_me]

The manufacturer specifies in the instructions for the machine what ranges the machine is designed to operate under. Exceeding those ranges to gain a result invalidates any findings. That is a given in peer review in any field of science, including and especially in the forensic sciences. You don't hold tests that can toss someone in prison to a lower standard than a lab for a community college. Again, do you agree that the ends don't justify the means or not?


Also, please note that I did an ETA on the post of mine that you quoted.

I thought one of the points, too, was that the lab was not qualified to run low copy DNA tests? that would be a reason as well. Running tests in a lab not certified to handle that type of test would be an excellent reason to discount the findings. Conducting a test with a variance in the methodology would be another.

 

[Sonata]

All right. Lunch was good. made me a sandwich.

Now, What I found interesting about this new book of Nina's is that she said RF's lawyer was there when Mignini showed up. This was Nov 2nd. What do you think of that? I'm just conjecturing, but the way she got a lawyer and then made sure she got her laptop out of there before police confiscated it leads me to believe she had something on it she didn't want the world knowing about. Again just speculating, but calling her lawyer to the scene when she had not a thing to do with the crime was weird in my opinion.

Interesting hypothesis. Could well be true... wonder what it was if it is.

 

[Allusonz]

According to this, Massei took the median time between 8pm and 4am. and it seems HE, Massei, concluded 11pm. If we could look directly at Lalli's report, then it would solve it. Anyone have access to his report and not just Massei's interpretation of it?

Cause as we all know, Stephanoni "interpreted" the Negative TMB report to mean that blood was there, but the test didn't detect it. We also know that Stephanoni blew up the DNA until it started to read what she wanted. So I'd really like to wait to see if Dr. Lalli's report actually tells us to just decide MK was murdered at 11pm based on his 8pm to 4pm timeframe. Somehow, I get the feeling that it would be scientifically negligent of Dr. Lalli to ask us to do this.

However, his 8pm to 4am time frame does indeed include 930pm, too, so that means it's upholding what RG said about her being stabbed around that time.

BBM

That is what he did. There was also some confusion at the beginning with respect to the times the meal started as can be seen in the testimony from some of the hearings. Once more information became known it was determined that the meal was complete by 6:30 from the testimony of the British friends.

The experts also by that time knew that there had been only the meal of pizza and the apple crumble. They stated, since there had been no slippage into the duodenum that it was between 2 - 3 hours save for one that stated 4 hours in which slippage would of started by that time

As well the autopsy was video taped which helped immensely

When you calculate the 6:30 plus the 2 - 3 hours that puts it between 8:30 - 9:30

 

[otto]

The manufacturer specifies in the instructions for the machine what ranges the machine is designed to operate under. Exceeding those ranges to gain a result invalidates any findings. That is a given in peer review in any field of science, including and especially in the forensic sciences. You don't hold tests that can toss someone in prison to a lower standard than a lab for a community college. Again, do you agree that the ends don't justify the means or not?


Also, please note that I did an ETA on the post of mine that you quoted.

I'd like to look at the machine specifications. What information do we have about the specific machine (make/model of machine) and it's limitations/capabilities?

 

[SkewedView]

All right. Lunch was good. made me a sandwich.

Now, What I found interesting about this new book of Nina's is that she said RF's lawyer was there when Mignini showed up. This was Nov 2nd. What do you think of that? I'm just conjecturing, but the way she got a lawyer and then made sure she got her laptop out of there before police confiscated it leads me to believe she had something on it she didn't want the world knowing about. Again just speculating, but calling her lawyer to the scene when she had not a thing to do with the crime was weird in my opinion.

Not weird or suspicious, just smart. Same as telling LE that you will only talk through a lawyer, do not consent to searches etc...

It is especially not suspicious or weird when you consider that FR comes from a family in the legal profession. I'm sure that it was drilled into her head that the only rights she truly has are the ones that she asserts for herself.

 

[Allusonz]

I thought one of the points, too, was that the lab was not qualified to run low copy DNA tests? that would be a reason as well. Running tests in a lab not certified to handle that type of test would be an excellent reason to discount the findings. Conducting a test with a variance in the methodology would be another.

You are right. There are special entry procedures, ventilation requirements, etc. Remember at the time this lab was not even certified for regular DNA let alone LCN DNA. You are never to run LCN DNA items in a regular lab as the addition of even 1 picogram can throw out testing results

 

[wasnt_me]

BBM

That is what he did. There was also some confusion at the beginning with respect to the times the meal started as can be seen in the testimony from some of the hearings. Once more information became known it was determined that the meal was complete by 6:30 from the testimony of the British friends.

The experts also by that time knew that there had been only the meal of pizza and the apple crumble. They stated, since there had been no slippage into the duodenum that it was between 2 - 3 hours save for one that stated 4 hours in which slippage would of started by that time

As well the autopsy was video taped which helped immensely

When you calculate the 6:30 plus the 2 - 3 hours that puts it between 8:30 - 9:30

I don't know how Massei could have done that in good conscience. That was the same as picking a time out of a hat full of times between 8pm and 4am.

If he'd drawn 8pm out of the hat, then we wouldn't be here, huh?

 

[Allusonz]

I'd like to look at the machine specifications. What information do we have about the specific machine (make/model of machine) and it's limitations/capabilities?

It is not so much the machine specifications as the standard procedures/protocols which must be followed. Although there are differences in the machines it is the standard protocols/procedures which must be adhered to. I have seen 3 types of machines noted but have not been able to verify which particular machine it was.

 

[Allusonz]

All right. Lunch was good. made me a sandwich.

Now, What I found interesting about this new book of Nina's is that she said RF's lawyer was there when Mignini showed up. This was Nov 2nd. What do you think of that? I'm just conjecturing, but the way she got a lawyer and then made sure she got her laptop out of there before police confiscated it leads me to believe she had something on it she didn't want the world knowing about. Again just speculating, but calling her lawyer to the scene when she had not a thing to do with the crime was weird in my opinion.

One of the very first calls both RF and Laura made were to their lawyers even though Laura was out of town. I think this is one instance where it shows how naive AK and RS were

RF actually ran back in to grab her laptop without PLE escort which I found interesting

 

[SkewedView]

I'd like to look at the machine specifications. What information do we have about the specific machine (make/model of machine) and it's limitations/capabilities?

Very good idea. Perhaps you can assist me here. I have images of the results for 'sample B' (the Meridith sample), but they are bad copies, and my eyes are tired. Can you make out any info relevant to what we need?

http://forensicdnaconsulting.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/image002.gif


http://forensicdnaconsulting.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/image0021.gif



In the meantime, here's some commentary on the issue, take it as you will:


http://forensicdnaconsulting.wordpr...perts’-report-in-the-amanda-knox-case-part-i/

It is immediately obvious to anyone familiar with these electropherograms, that this is a very low level result. The taller the DNA peaks present, the more DNA present. Many of the peaks are below a height of 50 RFU (relative fluorescence units) and do not have a classic triangular DNA peak shape.

I have actually never seen a laboratory in the U.S. report peaks below 50 RFU. In fact, I believe that the manufacturer of the DNA typing chemistry and software used in this case actually recommends setting the threshold at 50 RFU for basic peak detection. The problem when you consider peaks that low is that they can be confused with instrumental noise. You can see that smaller peaks have a more jagged appearance.

If in fact Stefanoni’s laboratory performed thorough validation studies that demonstrated the parameters under which such low peaks could be reported, then there may be some justification for this practice. Certainly, great caution would need to be used with that sort of interpretation, and its meaning is open to great debate.

This less than robust result coupled with the confusion regarding the DNA quantitation steps raises many questions about the quality of the result. When contamination occurs in DNA laboratories, it is often at a very low level. It will be very interesting to see what Stefanoni’s explanation for reporting such a low result is.

 

[wasnt_me]

Interesting hypothesis. Could well be true... wonder what it was if it is.

I don't know but I can't help wondering. That book also said her laptop had been thrown and thus destroyed, but I'd never heard that before, and how can we know for sure, since RF hightailed it out of there with the laptop in question?

Again, I'm speculating for filler for the Made-for-TV script, but I guess that will always be a question in my mind, because RF behaved strangely from sending her BF ahead of her to being so intent on getting to that laptop to getting her lawyer there before the lead investigator even got there.

While I'm at it, I heard RF was a lawyer. Their cottage was 1200 or 1500 euros and she and LM acted like that was steep. I get $1400 on calculating it out. But if she and LM were lawyers, is that steep or are lawyers not paid a lot? Or is it a mistake that they were actually already lawyers?

BTW, $1400 is steep as HELL in my area. And for that tiny place?

The book said RG was paying 300 or so for his one room place. But the owner of the cottage was getting the same amount from the upstairs and the downstairs? sounds like she was getting rich, if you ask me. I rent a place out to a guy. It's two stories, got a yard, car port, two bedrooms, etc, and he gets that for $100 more than what Rudy paid.

 

[Allusonz]

If only Guede had hired a PR firm to promote his basketball skills in the US ... perhaps people would think that he too is interesting.

What interesting behavior have we seen from Knox ... the lying? the hoopla? the cartwheels? the splits? the courtroom outfits? the conviction?

What I find odd about this perspective is that RG's previous break-ins seem to carry less weight than doing yoga. Even the break-ins in which he used a knife to threaten the individual. The other thing not being considered here is that there were similar MO's from his previous break-ins yet that is not as important as what she wore once being the beatle shirt her father had bought for her. I am still of the opinion that she wore that to court simply as a thank you to her father and it is well known that she likes the beatles.

 

[SkewedView]

I don't know but I can't help wondering. That book also said her laptop had been thrown and thus destroyed, but I'd never heard that before, and how can we know for sure, since RF hightailed it out of there with the laptop in question?

Again, I'm speculating for filler for the Made-for-TV script, but I guess that will always be a question in my mind, because RF behaved strangely from sending her BF ahead of her to being so intent on getting to that laptop to getting her lawyer there before the lead investigator even got there.

While I'm at it, I heard RF was a lawyer. Their cottage was 1200 or 1500 euros and she and LM acted like that was steep. I get $1400 on calculating it out. But if she and LM were lawyers, is that steep or are lawyers not paid a lot? Or is it a mistake that they were actually already lawyers?

BTW, $1400 is steep as HELL in my area. And for that tiny place?

The book said RG was paying 300 or so for his one room place. But the owner of the cottage was getting the same amount from the upstairs and the downstairs? sounds like she was getting rich, if you ask me.

As far as I was aware she was a law student at the time, and had lawyers in the family.

 

[Allusonz]

Very good idea. Perhaps you can assist me here. I have images of the results for 'sample B' (the Meridith sample), but they are bad copies, and my eyes are tired. Can you make out any info relevant to what we need?

http://forensicdnaconsulting.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/image002.gif


http://forensicdnaconsulting.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/image0021.gif



In the meantime, here's some commentary on the issue, take it as you will:


http://forensicdnaconsulting.wordpr...perts’-report-in-the-amanda-knox-case-part-i/

2 of the machines I have seen noted were the 3150 and the 3100 but I don't recall it being specifically mentioned in the testimony although I may of missed that

 

[wasnt_me]

True, and the witnesses to RG's crimes appear to hold less weight than the bleach man, or the half deaf woman, or olive thrower, or homeless guy.

The truth is, some of RG's antics before the murder, we can't substaniate.

--Break-in at the first nursey. Never reported. Don't even know how Nina got a hold of that information.

---Fire at the one house. Though a woman's watch was found on him later, we can't prove he did that or that it was the watch in question.

--Break-in at the law office. I'll give that one to RG beause of the rock and because he had the laptop and the cellphones.

--Break-in at the second nursey. I'm giving him that, too, because he was actually seen there, the police came, but decided to let him go. Nina gives reasons in the book being as perugian authorities told Milan just to send him back and also Milan let him off because it was a low priority crime on a busy crime weekend.

--Guy who said RG was in his house waving a knife. I believe that one because when the witness told someone about it at the club RG liked to go to, RG got barred from going to that club. So it wasn't like the witness came out and told his story just to be apart of the murder. He'd mentioned it to someone prior to the murder. He claimed the immigration line was too long whenever he went to report the crime. I don't understand that. The police station doesn't have different lines for different things? How about a phone call? I don't understand the whole "standing in line" to report a crime. But then again, I'm not from Perugia.

 

[SkewedView]

I am still of the opinion that she wore that to court simple as a thank you to her father and it is well known that she likes the beatles.

(snipped by me)

AHA! You just helped me figure it out! All the fighting isn't over the case at all, it's a Beatles fans vs Elvis fans thing! <----WARNING - this is just to lighten the mood, not really making accusations of Elvis worship here...

 

[Allusonz]

(snipped by me)

AHA! You just helped me figure it out! All the fighting isn't over the case at all, it's a Beatles fans vs Elvis fans thing! <----WARNING - this is just to lighten the mood, not really making accusations of Elvis worship here...

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

OMG I can see it now. Nova in his shaved legs on a slippery slope dancing to a beatles song. Poor Nova I keep teasing him. Too funny