Meredith Kercher murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #3

[missyjane77]

Is there a recording as to what was said to her parents with Amanda called them? Probably not. Again, moot point IMO.

 

[Isabella]

In your opinion maybe. But its for others to decide if its a mute point for THEM. For me it certainly isnt as i think everything we can find is important.

JMO

 

[kemo]

Missyjane77,

Amanda's mother testified that she was woken up in the middle of the night by Amanda's call. (12:47 Perugia time) Amanda told her about the break-in, the blood in the bathroom and the locked door. She asked her mother "what do you think I should do?", Her mother told her to call the police. This is all in the ""True Justice for Merideth" site under "Cell phone Activity". I don't think there is any controversy over the nature of the conversation.

 

[miley]

Amanda called her mother at 12:47 while she was with Raffaelle in her room and the Postal Police were in the house. At 12:55, Raffaele called the police to report the break-in. Niether Raffaele nor Amanda mentioned anything about the Postal Police being there. This same information is confirmed by the FOA web site except that it claims the Posal Police had not yet arrived. From what I can tell, unless there is a conspiracy amoung police agencies to LIE, the police were there before 12:47. I have no idea what the defense or FOA are currently claiming about these times, but they are obviously very critical. The cell phone records are extremely accurate and pretty much impossible to deny yet it is very damming to the defense that Amanda and Raffaele would make such calls without mentioning the fact that the police were already there. The only reasonable conclusion is they were covering up the fact that had not called to report the break-in promptly and to cover the lie that they had told to the Postal Police (that they had already called in the report). While it is possible that they were only covering up their poor handling of the situation, the time to fess up to that has long passed.

the phone records aren't in question - the issue is over whether or not the police arrived around 12:30 (like they said) OR did they arrive after 12:45 (which is how it is logged and recorded in police records)

 

[miley]

Missyjane77,

Amanda's mother testified that she was woken up in the middle of the night by Amanda's call. (12:47 Perugia time) Amanda told her about the break-in, the blood in the bathroom and the locked door. She asked her mother "what do you think I should do?", Her mother told her to call the police. This is all in the ""True Justice for Merideth" site under "Cell phone Activity". I don't think there is any controversy over the nature of the conversation.

well, except the true justice site says at 0524 (1324 in Perugia), Edda receives a second phone call stating the police have now arrived and found Meredith's body.

i don't know the timestamps but actually, in the (second) conversation, amanda tells her mother they found a foot.

what Amanda's mother said in the trial (bolding by me)

snip
She tried to call Meredith several times but there was no answer.

They came back to the house and she showed Raf what she found and then they also noticed the broken window.

And now they were pounding on Meredith’s room trying to wake her. All this in the first call? Yes very quickly. I told her to call the police. She said Raf was finishing a call with his sister and then was going to call police. This was the first call.

The second phone call was that people were yelling and they found a foot in the room. She was very upset. It was disturbing.

I said Oh my God. She couldn’t understand, only the foot.

Then we hung up. That was the second phone call. I don’t know the exact time.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19800356/detail.html​

 

[kemo]

Miley

I'm not sure if the defense still claimed that the Postal Police arrived after Raffaele made the 112 call. There would certainly be a great deal of testimony and cross-examination on the issue during the recent trial.

I did find a reference in the Nov 7, 2007 english edition of the web magazine "Italian Life" where they gave a translation of the statement Raffaele gave at the Police Station Nove 6th. They quote:

"Then I decided to call my sister for advice because she’s a lieutenant in the carabinieri. She told me to call 112 but by this time the postal police had arrived. In my earlier statement, I told you a whole lot of rubbish because Amanda convinced me about her version and I didn’t think about the contradictions”.

Since this report came so soon after it occured, I think it is pretty credible.

 

[dgfred]

amanda could have tried, and the police could have already turned it off at the station - at this point only one of the phones was found... so, did the police try to call the other phone, what about filomenia or her bf?



that's absurd

It would still show on AK's phone that she had tried to call!

**Totally unfair for you to post 'that's absurd'... but give no reason why YOU
think that... then don't reply to another poster when they question you about the same thing. :slap:

 

[2goldfish]

did you guys know mignini got his own prison sentence?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ith-Kercher-murder-prosecutor-corruption.html

 

[Isabella]

did you guys know mignini got his own prison sentence?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ith-Kercher-murder-prosecutor-corruption.html

What that article doesnt say is that the MAIN charge he was found not guilty.

In addition i strondly disagree with her fathers statement "'It’s clear that the methods used by the Perugia prosecutors are not in accordance with Italian law.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1245639/Amanda-Knoxs-father-welcomes-jail-term-Meredith-Kercher-murder-prosecutor-corruption.html#ixzz0dg7uFSL1 " there is NOTHING to suggest this whatsoever and seeing as he is already facing charges maybe he should think before opening his mouth.

JMO

 

[missyjane77]

What that article doesnt say is that the MAIN charge he was found not guilty.

In addition i strondly disagree with her fathers statement "'It’s clear that the methods used by the Perugia prosecutors are not in accordance with Italian law.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1245639/Amanda-Knoxs-father-welcomes-jail-term-Meredith-Kercher-murder-prosecutor-corruption.html#ixzz0dg7uFSL1 " there is NOTHING to suggest this whatsoever and seeing as he is already facing charges maybe he should think before opening his mouth.

JMO

He's still guilty, regardless of which charge it is. And perhaps that Amanda's father believes something you don't, Isabella. In fact, quite a few of us here do too.

ETA: Maybe such a blanket statement was inappropriate, but I know there are people who think Mignini is crooked (myself included).

 

[Isabella]

He's still guilty, regardless of which charge it is. And perhaps that Amanda's father believes something you don't, Isabella. In fact, quite a few of us here do too.

ETA: Maybe such a blanket statement was inappropriate, but I know there are people who think Mignini is crooked (myself included).

Your entitled to your opinion but it certainly doesnt mean its right though

Amandas parents are already facing libel charges. Maybe they want to end up with Amanda and thats why they keep opening there mouths. It would be cheaper than renting for them i guess.

Personally i think its stupid to say all Peruglia is corrupt because of one man. That would be like saying all of America is corrupt because of the actions of George Bush or someone :innocent:

 

[miley]

Miley

I'm not sure if the defense still claimed that the Postal Police arrived after Raffaele made the 112 call. There would certainly be a great deal of testimony and cross-examination on the issue during the recent trial.

I did find a reference in the Nov 7, 2007 english edition of the web magazine "Italian Life" where they gave a translation of the statement Raffaele gave at the Police Station Nove 6th. They quote:

"Then I decided to call my sister for advice because she’s a lieutenant in the carabinieri. She told me to call 112 but by this time the postal police had arrived. In my earlier statement, I told you a whole lot of rubbish because Amanda convinced me about her version and I didn’t think about the contradictions”.

Since this report came so soon after it occured, I think it is pretty credible.

there was very little to account for raphalle's arrest, other then "amanda and rafaelle are always together." this may sound corny but, "how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?" in this situation, about 14 hours - see my point?

also, have you looked up, Fiorenza Sarzanini, who wrote the article?
"crime journalist/book author of Amanda and the Others? conveniently hit the shelves before the trial started.... an Italian bestseller, primarily based on leaked information.

beyond that though, the issue is over whether or not the police arrived around 12:30 (like they said) OR did they arrive after 12:45 (which is how it is logged and recorded in police records) - who should explain the inconsistency?

raffaele, the convicted murderer? surely not - this is an internal error within the police dept., involving only the police dept. ... shouldn't they be responsible for explaining their own errors without "using" anyone else.

 

[Isabella]

Miley

I'm not sure if the defense still claimed that the Postal Police arrived after Raffaele made the 112 call. There would certainly be a great deal of testimony and cross-examination on the issue during the recent trial.

I did find a reference in the Nov 7, 2007 english edition of the web magazine "Italian Life" where they gave a translation of the statement Raffaele gave at the Police Station Nove 6th. They quote:

"Then I decided to call my sister for advice because she’s a lieutenant in the carabinieri. She told me to call 112 but by this time the postal police had arrived. In my earlier statement, I told you a whole lot of rubbish because Amanda convinced me about her version and I didn’t think about the contradictions”.

Since this report came so soon after it occured, I think it is pretty credible.

Again he appears to drop Amanda in it...interesting.

 

[missyjane77]

Your entitled to your opinion but it certainly doesnt mean its right though

Amandas parents are already facing libel charges. Maybe they want to end up with Amanda and thats why they keep opening there mouths. It would be cheaper than renting for them i guess.

Personally i think its stupid to say all Peruglia is corrupt because of one man. That would be like saying all of America is corrupt because of the actions of George Bush or someone :innocent:

If you go back and read what I said, you would see where I said that such a blanket statement was perhaps inappropriate.

Mignini is shady and his conviction points to that.

 

[Isabella]

If you go back and read what I said, you would see where I said that such a blanket statement was perhaps inappropriate.

Mignini is shady and his conviction points to that.

Amanda and Raf are murderers and THEIR convictions points to that

 

[dgfred]

there was very little to account for raphalle's arrest, other then "amanda and rafaelle are always together." this may sound corny but, "how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?" in this situation, about 14 hours - see my point?

also, have you looked up, Fiorenza Sarzanini, who wrote the article?
"crime journalist/book author of Amanda and the Others? conveniently hit the shelves before the trial started.... an Italian bestseller, primarily based on leaked information.

beyond that though, the issue is over whether or not the police arrived around 12:30 (like they said) OR did they arrive after 12:45 (which is how it is logged and recorded in police records) - who should explain the inconsistency?

raffaele, the convicted murderer? surely not - this is an internal error within the police dept., involving only the police dept. ... shouldn't they be responsible for explaining their own errors without "using" anyone else.

Well the timing of the call to the police is important because it shows RS was trying to set up his alibi that they were concerned enough to call the police.
Even if we accept the timing is off by 10 minutes or so... it WAS proven that he did NOT call the police before the postal police arrived, whatever the time.
His defense could not disprove this, the jurors believed it was so, and every judge that has looked over all the evidence of the calls.

 

[miley]

Well the timing of the call to the police is important because it shows RS was trying to set up his alibi that they were concerned enough to call the police.
Even if we accept the timing is off by 10 minutes or so... it WAS proven that he did NOT call the police before the postal police arrived, whatever the time.
His defense could not disprove this, the jurors believed it was so, and every judge that has looked over all the evidence of the calls.

when police arrived at the cottage, they said they were there to discuss two cell phones found (they first said they arrived at 12:35 now they say 12:25) but heres the problem
(phones found in the garden) ...the lady found the first phone and took it to the station and left. her daughter (later in the day) finds the second phone. together (she and her mom) go back to the station with the second phone, according to the Micheli report (logged in police records) arriving at 12:46. By 13:50 both phones offically seized

so either the police showed up about the one phone in which case, why didn't everyone try to call meredith's phone OR the police showed up about two phones, in which case there would be no reason to try and call meredith's phone(s)

remember though,
only the daughter and mother, no one else, not even the police, knew about the second phone until after say 12:40

and dgfred, Amanda DID try and call meredith's phone... as a matter of fact, the daughter that found the second phone, found it because it was ringing... she picked it up and the caller ID said: AMANDA

does it really matter WHERE Amanda was when she called meredith's phone... the fact is she tried to call meredith several times

another problem:
Luca Altieri and Amanda both testify that the police had two cell phones with them. police asked amanda to write her friends numbers on a post-it.... Luca Altieri said he saw the two phones laying next to the post-it and made a remark to the police about them.

EXCEPT the Micheli report states BOTH phones never left the station

Amanda trial testimony:

LG: And what did they ask? To go into the house? Did they ask for information?

AK: No, I said "Look, come inside", because I was convinced that they were
the ones that Raffaele had called. I found it strange that they arrived so
quickly, but...

LG: And they told you that they were there for the problem of the cell phones?

AK: Yes, in fact, they told me that after I brought them into the house. They
showed me the cell phones and said they were looking for a certain Filomena.
And they asked me for the cell phone numbers that I had. I told them that
there were strange, strange things, but our communication was always kind of fragmentary, with Raffaele as go-between.
http://wildgreta.wordpress.com/tag/giallo-perugia/​

And here:

Judge Micheli said that some confusion was created by the evidence of Luca Altieri (Filomena’s boyfriend) who said he saw two mobile phones on the table at the cottage.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C343/​

but, during the trial, one of the police officers testifies that he, in fact, DID bring one of the phones...
so which is it -- was one phone, two phones or no phones brought

and another thing, during the trial, one of the police officers testified that no one, not even he, went inside meredith's bedroom... however, Luca Altieri testified that the police officer DID go in the room

The first witnesses to testify said on Friday that when Kercher’s bedroom door was knocked down, housemates and friends shouted: “Oh my God, my God,” before police ushered them out of the house.

Michele Battistelli, the first police officer to arrive at the scene, denied he had entered Kercher’s bedroom after the door was kicked in.

But a witness, Luca Altieri, said he had seen Battistelli bend down to lift a duvet that was covering Kercher’s body.

Lawyers for Knox and Sollecito said they would exploit this apparent conflict of evidence and that Battistelli might be charged with perjury.

“The contradictions show that the start of the investigation was a farce, things weren’t done properly and someone is lying about how the body was discovered,” said Luciano Ghirga, the defence lawyer. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5683711.ece
​

don't you see the inconsistencies - ALL stemming from the police dept.

the witnesses seem to have pretty much the same story... for example

from the Seattle PI:

Paola: "We asked the police to open the door but they said they couldn't so we decided to do it. Luca gave the door, which had a crack (a scratch, rotten part) near the handle, about four kicks and it opened. The room was quite dark but I was just able to see (just for a second???) a foot protruding from a cover.
"We then all went outside and the policeman entered the room.'"

Per Filomena: "The door of Meredith's room, at the moment the corpse was discovered, was broken down only by Altieri, while Sollecito was to the right of her, of Marco and of Altieri."

Amanda: "All I remember was that Filomena was saying a foot, a foot. I was in shock. I couldn't understand what was going on. All I heard was a foot, a foot. I thought there was a foot in her room." --from the Dec. 17 interrogation.​

my point is, Amanda is the one who got the ball rolling to begin with by calling Filomenia - why all of the DRAMA, seems unnecessary

and by the way, there was no testimony during the trial that amanda and raf were standing outside with a mop and bucket PLUS the two bleach reciepts weren't produced and the bleach in raf's apt... the housekeeper testified that the two bottles had been in the same spot with the same amounts since she started working there - one unopened and the other with a little missing
the clean up is a theory that never panned out

eta: the reason I said "that's absurd," notice how many times it took Paola to kick in the door - it was hard to kick in and why would you expect Amanda to kick it in --- I said the door "flew" open because according to the Micheli report, he states that the door "flew" open

 

[dgfred]

I don't really understand what you are trying to say... the entire point was that it was PROVED in court that RS nor AK called the police until AFTER the postal police were already there... the defense could not shake this evidence in any way.

If it took Paola four kicks (however hard or difficult) IMO RS could have also...
maybe even AK with alot more effort if they really wanted to get into her room.

***And another point from your post: If all AK heard when the body was discovered was 'a foot'... wonder how she knew MK had her throat cut and suffered a long time bleeding to death when talking to others outside???????

 

[miley]

I don't really understand what you are trying to say... the entire point was that it was PROVED in court that RS nor AK called the police until AFTER the postal police were already there... the defense could not shake this evidence in any way.

If it took Paola four kicks (however hard or difficult) IMO RS could have also...
maybe even AK with alot more effort if they really wanted to get into her room.

***And another point from your post: If all AK heard when the body was discovered was 'a foot'... wonder how she knew MK had her throat cut and suffered a long time bleeding to death when talking to others outside???????

dgfred, you ask the same questions over and over, no proof (links, etc..)
whats the point

 

[justbeachy]

Amanda and Raf are murderers and THEIR convictions points to that

Of course. Because no one is ever wrongly convicted.