MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[cujenn81]

We had two middle school students charged today for posting school threats online.

2 Forestbrook Middle School students charged in school threat investigation

 

[al66pine]

FWIW, re federal firearm laws, from Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) website. I have not searched MI statutes.
First:
"May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
"Yes. However, persons less than 18 years of age may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting."* bbm

And/but, from Dept. of Justice site:
"VII. SELL, DELIVER OR TRANSFER TO A JUVENILE: 18 USC § 922(x)(1). Punishable by up to 1 year imprisonment unless transferor had reason to believe juvenile would commit crime of violence with gun or ammunition, then up to 10 years imprisonment."
(Continues re violations by a firearms licensee. < iiuc = fed. firearms dealers, manu's, et al.
Above applies to any person selling, delivering or transferring iirc.)

I don't recall reading about possible federal charges. Anyone?
___________________________
* "[18 U.S.C. 922(x)] Last Reviewed January 30, 2020"
May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
{ETA. The fed. statute itself = 18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts }
** "QUICK REFERENCE TO FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS" at page 3 of 4.
^https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf

 

[LadyL]

TikTok threat of school violence is vague and non-credible but has schools and law enforcement on high alert - CNN
''A vague and viral TikTok trend warning of nationwide school violence on Friday — which authorities have dismissed as non-credible — has nevertheless prompted widespread school closures, stretched law enforcement resources and put families on edge ahead of a critical holiday travel season.
A number of school districts in states ranging from Minnesota to Texas announced they were shutting down schools on Friday in response to a wave of videos, some mentioning specific schools, suggesting that students avoid coming to class on Dec. 17. In other areas, law enforcement were on high alert, sending officers to guard schools as a precaution.
The US Department of Homeland Security said Friday morning it has no evidence to suggest the claims are credible but encouraged the public to "remain alert."

''A federal law enforcement source agreed, telling CNN that authorities worry most that the rapidly unfolding social media narrative could drive a lone offender to carry out an actual attack. The situation is an illustration of the current threat environment in the United States, the source added.
"This is an illustration of how social media and other communication platforms play a role in spreading threat related narratives, which then can result in the need for escalated security measures in and around parts our critical infrastructure," the source said.''

it was even spreading here in Canada

 

[woods]

Wow. Since the Nov 30th shooting, up to 86 students in 3 Michigan counties have been charged for making threats against their schools. (17 in Oxford County, 39 in Wayne County, & 30 in Macomb County)

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I agree with you. The school district failed miserably.

However, they aren't going to "accept responsibility" because now there are lawsuits. Due to that, there are probably things that they cannot say.

Absolutely. There are communications directors in school districts who immediately tell staff and administrators not to speak if anything occurs. There are lawyers for the district as well.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I bet he loses his job soon and will be sued. He is part of the toxic enviroment. No parent will put up this bs,

I have not watched the Board footage. However, I will say that Board of Education meetings have turned into circuses during the last year and a half with parent groups freaking out over COVID, masking policies and their suspicions about CRT. Unfortunately, the boards have had to respond by cutting back the time for public comments, limiting the number of people in the meeting, and limiting the number of comments made.

This, obviously, is a very different circumstance and the district will have to address concerns about safety moving forward. However, with school not resuming until January, they are probably still working on plans. ???

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I bet he loses his job soon and will be sued. He is part of the toxic enviroment. No parent will put up this bs,

Unfortunately, this board president's term doesn't end until 2024, and I doubt that someone with his arrogant attitude will resign. Frankly, I don't know how any of the Oxford Board of Education was elected. They certainly don't seem to care about the best interests of the parents or students they represent. JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Late Oxford student Tate Myre given NFL's Way to Play High School award (detroitnews.com)

Oxford student Tate Myre has been named this week's recipient of the NFL's Way to Play High School award. The program, in its third year, recognizes high school football players who demonstrate exceptional in-game playing techniques to make impactful plays.

On behalf of Myre, Oxford's football program will receive a $5,000 equipment grant through USA Football and new uniforms courtesy of Nike...

 

[passionflower]

yep, new challenges go viral within hours...it started with TidePods, snorting cinnamon/nutmeg, and now shot up your school challenge.
No one at TikTok thought to maybe shut this down asap? ban the accounts and report to the FBI, versus letting it go viral for over a week now?

I hope some of these social media places for young people disappear! Banned forever. They serve no good. I know a 45 year old who dwells on tic Toc dances and goofs off like a teen. Crazy!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Students aren't the only ones posing threats

Macomb County middle school staffer arrested over alleged threat (detroitnews.com)

St. Clair Shores — An employee at Jefferson Middle School was arrested Friday and placed on administrative leave after allegedly placing "inappropriate" notes around the Macomb County school, district officials said.

The employee, who was not identified, was arrested Friday afternoon after a school security camera apparently captured hand-written threats being left in three different teacher work areas, school officials said in a release...

Jefferson Middle School employee arrested for making threat against school, police say (clickondetroit.com)

Handwritten notes left at teacher work areas

SAINT CLAIR SHORES, Mich. – An employee of Jefferson Middle School in St. Clair Shores has been arrested in connection to a threat directed at the school.

St. Clair Shores police were notified by the Lakeview School District on Dec. 17 at 7:30 a.m. that a threat was made toward the middle school...

 

[Kristin Esq.]

My fear is this: Those that are arresed for making threats and being arrested, I'm grateful for LE. But I feel as though the person/child that will actually go through with someone is not easily caught. MOO.

 

[IzzyGrace]

My fear is this: Those that are arresed for making threats and being arrested, I'm grateful for LE. But I feel as though the person/child that will actually go through with someone is not easily caught. MOO.

Yes someone who is making actual threats may not be as obvious. But something needs to be done to stop these fake threats. Having students making these to complete a challenge or get out of school for a day take away from the seriousness of an actual threat. That may be why the school didn't take the reports from parents and students seriously. They had false ones in the past, they had the "that could never happen here" mentality. IMO every threat needs to be charged and a punishment needs to be given. No more of this slap on the hand. A school shooting, or stabbing, or any act of violence is not a laughing matter. These kids need a slap of reality that actions have consequences. It's not all about likes and shares in the real world

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Yes someone who is making actual threats may not be as obvious. But something needs to be done to stop these fake threats. Having students making these to complete a challenge or get out of school for a day take away from the seriousness of an actual threat. That may be why the school didn't take the reports from parents and students seriously. They had false ones in the past, they had the "that could never happen here" mentality. IMO every threat needs to be charged and a punishment needs to be given. No more of this slap on the hand. A school shooting, or stabbing, or any act of violence is not a laughing matter. These kids need a slap of reality that actions have consequences. It's not all about likes and shares in the real world

I 100% agree with you. Anyone that makes a threat, real or fake, needs to be arrested and charged. Maybe the it'll get through to those who want to make fake threats that this isn't a joke.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ethan Crumbley Isn’t an Adult
The prosecution wants to try him as one while also blaming the 15-year-old’s parents.

Additional charges filed against Crumbley’s parents underscore the innate absurdity of charging him as an adult. “These two individuals could have stopped it,” said Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald. “And they had every reason to know he was dangerous, and they gave him a weapon and they didn’t secure it. And they allowed him free access to it.” If his parents are to blame for his alleged crime, what sense does it make to try him as an adult?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Ethan Crumbley Isn’t an Adult
The prosecution wants to try him as one while also blaming the 15-year-old’s parents.

Additional charges filed against Crumbley’s parents underscore the innate absurdity of charging him as an adult. “These two individuals could have stopped it,” said Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald. “And they had every reason to know he was dangerous, and they gave him a weapon and they didn’t secure it. And they allowed him free access to it.” If his parents are to blame for his alleged crime, what sense does it make to try him as an adult?

Michigan Legislature - Section 712A.2d

 

[Puzzles]

Ethan Crumbley Isn’t an Adult
The prosecution wants to try him as one while also blaming the 15-year-old’s parents.

Additional charges filed against Crumbley’s parents underscore the innate absurdity of charging him as an adult. “These two individuals could have stopped it,” said Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald. “And they had every reason to know he was dangerous, and they gave him a weapon and they didn’t secure it. And they allowed him free access to it.” If his parents are to blame for his alleged crime, what sense does it make to try him as an adult?

Notwithstanding the horrific crime committed wherein four children were murdered and countless other victims were traumatized, the murderer, at 15 years of age, is a child.

In the US, the age of majority is 18 years. This in itself is a questionable categorization.

As the frontal lobe of our brains isn't fully developed until our mid-twenties, or perhaps even later, the classification of adulthood prior to maturity of the brain's area responsible for executive functions is preposterous. We cannot consider a child has the same level of judgement and self-governing control expected of an adult.

IMO, it is wrong, even absurd, to categorize juveniles as all those under 18-years-old, only to determine that in some particular circumstances a juvenile is an adult.


In the last decade, a growing body of longitudinal neuroimaging research has demonstrated that adolescence is a period of continued brain growth and change, challenging longstanding assumptions that the brain was largely finished maturing by puberty [1–3]. The frontal lobes, home to key components of the neural circuitry underlying “executive functions” such as planning, working memory, and impulse control, are among the last areas of the brain to mature; they may not be fully developed until halfway through the third decade of life [2]. This finding has prompted interest in linking stage of neuromaturation to maturity of judgment.
Adolescent Maturity and the Brain: The Promise and Pitfalls of Neuroscience Research in Adolescent Health Policy.

 

[al66pine]

Ethan Crumbley Isn’t an Adult
The prosecution wants to try him as one while also blaming the 15-year-old’s parents....
If his parents are to blame for his alleged crime, what sense does it make to try him as an adult?

@Cool Cats sbm Thanks for your post. At 2 paragraphs, I hit paywall.

Rephrasing ^ question: If his parents are to blame for his alleged crime, why try him at all?
Not being snarky. Really just thinking about trying him as juvie or adult, which is more appropriate?

 

[Cool Cats]

@Cool Cats sbm Thanks for your post. At 2 paragraphs, I hit paywall.

Rephrasing ^ question: If his parents are to blame for his alleged crime, why try him at all?
Not being snarky. Really just thinking about trying him as juvie or adult, which is more appropriate?

They want to get him sentenced to LWOP so they need to charge him as an adult I think. As a juvenile there is too much chance he gets out someday.

They need to do everything they can to keep him away from society for his entire lifetime.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Of course Ethan Crumbley should be charged as an adult - he willfully pre-planned and committed an adult act.

Toddlers and kindergarteners do not commit mass murder. Let us not sugarcoat mass murder - specifically school shootings - and who perpetrates it. Let us not give teen mass killers special dispensation because of their age.

"Juvenile" vs "Adult" is FAR from cut and dried, black or white as some would have it, especially in the US, with its complex maze of state and federal laws. One's status depends on a dizzying, often seemingly contradictory array of biological, social and legal constructs of what is considered a "child" or an "adult". The very concept of "adolescence" itself did not exist before 1904.

Adult - Wikipedia

Some children / teens are very mature and responsible (more than we realize or will admit); too many adults never, ever mature. Bottom line, humans are not cookie-cutter. Exceptions and gray areas will always exist in human behavior - they must be acknowledged and taken into account, given context and circumstance.

IMHO, I think we in the US way too often underestimate those under 18, especially in this 21st century era. We want them to be innocent, sheltered "children" as long as possible. This is a huge, self-serving disservice to them.

Young people know the score. We don't give them nearly enough credit (or condemnation, if warranted) for their actions. We just chalk it up to "they're just kids!", as if that explains everything. Children / teens today are much more savvy (on all levels) than many want to believe, more so than say, 30, 40, 50 years ago (ah, the wonders of the internet and instant everything, for better and worse it's a whole cyber-education out there). We're mostly all too happy to readily attribute misdeeds and even crimes to naive, transitory "youth". A juvenile get-out-of-jail-free-card, "freebies" due to "youthful indiscretions". This is a grave mistake, to our collective social detriment. (How long should one infantilize and excuse a murderous, teen school shooter? How does one rehab a teen mass murderer?) This was not a case of shoplifting, egging a house or smoking in the restroom. Ethan Crumbley deliberately KILLED and WOUNDED humans and did not stop until he was stopped.

In my view, anyone old enough to learn how to handle / shoot a gun ("my beauty") and premeditate a mass shooting is old enough to suffer the unvarnished, life-altering (read: adult) consequences. As for ultimate legal responsibility, there is no teen vs parents in this latest, wretched tragedy ... EC and both his parents are collectively 100% liable. Life in prison, no parole.

JMO

 

[Puzzles]

Yours is a compelling argument @Lux et Veritas – well conceived and effectively supported. Its presentation is powerful and spirited.

It has me reconsidering entrenched beliefs within this 80-year-old mind which led to my earlier post
#416. Thank you.

I suggest this post alone earns you your avatar.