GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[cottonweaver]

Does anyone know if after the shooter was arrested was a drug test performed?
I searched online but was unable to find an answer.
The reason for my question is , a paradoxical reaction causes the opposite reaction and can be very dangerous.
I personally know this because I have this with Xanax and other medications in that class.
We have heard and read that JC gave him melatonin in the past.

Not sure but on at least one more occasion the parents had been medicating with who knows what?

This second example was re the father ' giving me some pills and telling me to to suck it up'

GUILTY - MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

Shannon Smith played out in court this text as proof that Jennifer was a concerned,caring mom to EC. I see it as a frantic mom who is real afraid of what her kid might be doing away from home. Yes? "Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley's attorney, said some text messages between Jennifer and her...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Sundog]

Exactly. I pray the juror considers that fact during their deliberations.

The defense attorney should have introduced an expert witness to testiffy that nearly half of parents today are giving their kids melatonin for sleep. So sleep issues appear to be a major issue for children these day and parents are medicating them on their own.

Nearly Half of Parents Give Their Kids Melatonin for Sleep | Sleep Foundation

Do you give your child melatonin for sleep? You're not alone if you do. Read why a consistent bedtime routine is a healthier long-term solution.

www.sleepfoundation.org

Edited by my to clarify first paragraph

 

[cottonweaver]

Why would the prosecution play her phone call to her dad about calorie issues related to jailhouse food offerings? Sounds amazingly petty to me.

It does but when you watch that part of the hearing, it's part of three jail calls they played a sequence where Keast links together evidence to argue a theme.

Here's the theme GUILTY - MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

 

[Cool Cats]

Jennifer Crumbley's parenting of shooter son picked apart during closing arguments

Crumbley, 45, is facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter in the deaths of four students at Oxford High School killed by her son, Ethan, in 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

Prosecutors played her phone calls from the Oakland County Jail in which she asked her father to set up a go fund to pay for the boarding of her horses and to Google how many calories are in a bologna sandwich and other food.

Jennifer not mentioning Ethan in a week or so of jail phone calls can be told without personal references to calories and ridiculous money requests.

And it isn't relative to the shooting. Only what she did before the shooting is relevant...2 Cents

Regardless of the outcome, I feel this trial will be referred to for many years. Apparently as a nation, we don’t care enough about school shootings to literally do anything to curb them. Will the trend be to hold parents accountable?

Yes if she is found guilty because it sets a precedent. Our justice system is built on case law.

The term case law refers to law that comes from decisions made by judges in previous cases. Case law, also known as “common law,” and “case precedent,” provides a common contextual background for certain legal concepts, and how they are applied in certain types of case. How much sway case law holds may vary by jurisdiction, and by the exact circumstances of the current case.

Case Law - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

Case law defined and explained with examples. Case law is law that comes from decisions made by judges in previous cases.

legaldictionary.net

I wish the prosecution would have followed up on the many discrepancies and contradictions Jennifer made while testifying under oath.

One example: When she said she took away Ethan's gun then said, oh, I mean we took away the shooting range. Why wasn't that followed up with, which dates or plans for the shooting range did you cancel? How long was the shooting range off limits? Where was the gun stored after this? Did Ethan know where it was?

Weird trial....

I agree. There is alot of cross examination that was left out ..... 2 Cents

 

[MrsWatson]

The defense attorney should have introduced an expert witness to testiffy that nearly half of parents today are giving their kids melatonin for sleep. So sleep issus appear to be a major issue for children.

Nearly Half of Parents Give Their Kids Melatonin for Sleep | Sleep Foundation

Do you give your child melatonin for sleep? You're not alone if you do. Read why a consistent bedtime routine is a healthier long-term solution.

www.sleepfoundation.org

That could have backfired spectacularly, since the article you linked states a consistent bedtime routine is preferred to melatonin.


The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) urges parents to talk to their child’s pediatrician before giving kids melatonin.

Did Jennifer talk to Ethan's doctor, or did she consult Dr Google?

BBM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently reported a 530% increase in calls to poison control centers about children ingesting melatonin, many of them accidentally Trusted SourceCenters for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats.View Source. While most of these children showed no side effects, some experienced symptoms like headaches, dizziness, nausea, and daytime sleepiness, and some required hospitalization.

Could that explain the episode Ethan had while working at the diner?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Jennifer not mentioning Ethan in a week or so of jail phone calls can be told without personal references to calories and ridiculous money requests.

And it isn't relative to the shooting. Only what she did before the shooting is relevant.



Yes if she is found guilty because it sets a precedent. Our justice system is built on case law.

The term case law refers to law that comes from decisions made by judges in previous cases. Case law, also known as “common law,” and “case precedent,” provides a common contextual background for certain legal concepts, and how they are applied in certain types of case. How much sway case law holds may vary by jurisdiction, and by the exact circumstances of the current case.

Case Law - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

Case law defined and explained with examples. Case law is law that comes from decisions made by judges in previous cases.

legaldictionary.net

Weird trial....

I agree. There is alot of cross examination that was left out .....

Jennifer said that she would have been "flagged" if she spoke about EC on the phone yet the state gave a date that was after the go fund me and calorie question when she did mention EC.
I don't remember anything said about that after by the state.

 

[cottonweaver]

Day 2 evidence
March 2021 one conversation string. Jennifer is ' freaking out'. Why? ( This is well before EC's friend B leaves town and that crisis)
She's worried he might ' do something stupid'




Link for the screenshots

 

[MrsWatson]

Jennifer said that she would have been "flagged" if she spoke about EC on the phone yet the state gave a date that was after the go fund me and calorie question when she did mention EC.
I don't remember anything said about that after by the state.

Another thing that should have had follow-up. Easily proven either way.

 

[Cool Cats]

Jennifer said that she would have been "flagged" if she spoke about EC on the phone yet the state gave a date that was after the go fund me and calorie question when she did mention EC.
I don't remember anything said about that after by the state.

???

State gave a date? Said about after?

Not sure what you mean.

 

[cottonweaver]

BBM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently reported a 530% increase in calls to poison control centers about children ingesting melatonin, many of them accidentally Trusted SourceCenters for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats.View Source. While most of these children showed no side effects, some experienced symptoms like headaches, dizziness, nausea, and daytime sleepiness, and some required hospitalization.

Could that explain the episode Ethan had while working at the diner?

Could that also explain why Jennifer told the owner of the diner not to call 911 ? In case he told a health care worker when questioned?

Just speculation

 

[Izzylizzy]

That could have backfired spectacularly, since the article you linked states a consistent bedtime routine is preferred to melatonin.


The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) urges parents to talk to their child’s pediatrician before giving kids melatonin.

Did Jennifer talk to Ethan's doctor, or did she consult Dr Google?

BBM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently reported a 530% increase in calls to poison control centers about children ingesting melatonin, many of them accidentally Trusted SourceCenters for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats.View Source. While most of these children showed no side effects, some experienced symptoms like headaches, dizziness, nausea, and daytime sleepiness, and some required hospitalization.

Could that explain the episode Ethan had while working at the diner?

I guess anything is possible with Melatolin but EC wasn't a little kid he was 15 and iirc: JC said it was half a pill.
EC's brother Eli got caught smoking pot at the same diner that EC picked up some shifts at.
Whoever caught Eli told him they were calling his parents.
Eli answered "where do you think I got it".
During the search at the Crumbley's residence evidence of growing pot was found and there was an empty booze bottle by EC's bed.
EC texted to friend that his mom thought he was on drugs.
For me Melatolin would be low on the list of why EC passed out or whatever happened to him.

Does anyone know if toxicity tests were done on other school shooters after being in custody?

 

[Izzylizzy]

???

State gave a date? Said about after?

Not sure what you mean.

After JC said she didn't mention EC on the phone because she'd have been "flagged" Kaest said there's audio of her mentioning EC in a call iirc: like 2 ish weeks after her calorie/money call.
I remember the topic then being dropped.

 

[cottonweaver]

Trial Day 2 evidence
March 2021 follow-up conversation string.

This is the next day, just after Jennifer had been freaking out and worried EC was a few mins late and might have done something stupid'

she doesn't reply until the following day with ' where's your dad?'
The LEO testifying explained that she also did not call him on her cell.

So-
8th March ' freaking out'
9th March, doesn't reply or call him back
Inconsistent?





Link for the shots and timestamp
1 hr 49

 

[Boodles]

Jennifer said that she would have been "flagged" if she spoke about EC on the phone yet the state gave a date that was after the go fund me and calorie question when she did mention EC.
I don't remember anything said about that after by the state.

I didn’t understand what JC meant about being concerned about being “flagged.” What does that mean? Flagged by whom and for what? Was she not allowed to speak about her son? (That can’t be?)

 

[Cool Cats]

After JC said she didn't mention EC on the phone because she'd have been "flagged" Kaest said there's audio of her mentioning EC in a call iirc: like 2 ish weeks after her calorie/money call.
I remember the topic then being dropped.

Well no wonder it was dropped. I am surprised the judge let that nonsense go into evidence before the jury.

Do you have an opinion as to why the judge has been referred to as being "sympathetic to the defense?"

 

[cottonweaver]

I didn’t understand what JC meant about being concerned about being “flagged.” What does that mean? Flagged by whom and for what? Was she not allowed to speak about her son? (That can’t be?)

yeah it makes no sense
All jail calls are recorded and both her and her Dad would know that anything they say will be monitored by staff from prosecutor's office, but in any case her asking about how her son was doing in jail couldn't be used against her - it actually would be to her benefit. ( Plus EC & JC not co-defendants)

Anyway, her evidence on flagging seems inconsistent because she did mention him in a jail call. She made a reference to EC 'needing to man-up'

She was inconsistent and contradictory throughout her testimony and many things weren't picked up on the ineffective cross later

 

[Izzylizzy]

???

State gave a date? Said about after?

Not sure what you mean.

Begins @ 34:11
Keast did run with it, I was wrong.
He was addressing how JC expresses her emotions.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Well no wonder it was dropped. I am surprised the judge let that nonsense go into evidence before the jury.

Do you have an opinion as to why the judge has been referred to as being "sympathetic to the defense?"

She treated Smith like a toddler having a temper tantrum .
The therapist who was mediating between the child (Smith) and the parent (state).
She showed no authority in her court room.

I missed the Smith act of her whipping off her jacket and cleaning herself with a wipe.
What did the judge do/say?

When Smith turned around and gave the bird to people in the courtroom.
What did the judge do/say?

 

[Sundog]

That could have backfired spectacularly, since the article you linked states a consistent bedtime routine is preferred to melatonin.


The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) urges parents to talk to their child’s pediatrician before giving kids melatonin.

Did Jennifer talk to Ethan's doctor, or did she consult Dr Google?

BBM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently reported a 530% increase in calls to poison control centers about children ingesting melatonin, many of them accidentally Trusted SourceCenters for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats.View Source. While most of these children showed no side effects, some experienced symptoms like headaches, dizziness, nausea, and daytime sleepiness, and some required hospitalization.

Could that explain the episode Ethan had while working at the diner?

When I first read the recent news reports about the number of parents giving melatonin to their children, I asked a few of my friends who have grandchildren and all of the said that their daughters were giving melatonin to their children to help them sleep. Seems like we have an epidemic on our hands.

 

[Izzylizzy]

When I first read the recent news reports about the number of parents giving melatonin to their children, I asked a few of my friends who have grandchildren and all of the said that their daughters were giving melatonin to their children to help them sleep. Seems like we have an epidemic on our hands.

I had sent these articles to my daughter/sil.

Melatonin dose in gummies often higher than on the label ...​

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › 2023/04/25 › mel...



Apr 25, 2023 — Researchers concluded 22 of 25 gummy supplements were “inaccurately labeled” and often contained more melatonin than advertised.

Many melatonin gummies are labeled with the wrong dosage​

Marketplace
https://www.marketplace.org › 2023/04/27 › theres-a-...



Apr 27, 2023 — A new study out in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at 25 melatonin gummies and found that 22 were mislabeled. Most ...