GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[wyome]

I do recall hearing that Ethan's best friend was moved out of state due to some sort of depression or tragic event? But weren't they separated prior to that? Did the friend move to another school before that? It seemed like they were separated for a while but I cannot remember the circumstances.

I wonder if that mother of the friend will testify on Jennifer's behalf?

 

[arielilane]

Three minute video

'Everybody Needs to Go Home': Emotions Run High in Crumbley Courtroom

'Everybody Needs to Go Home': Emotions Run High in Crumbley Courtroom​

There were fireworks in court after prosecutors accused Jennifer Crumbley's attorney of making an inappropriate remark about 'killing herself.' (1/26/24) MORE

 

[IDK]

Jennifer asking "Does he remember what he did?" is damning.
I'm not sure what a teenager could do that he wouldn't remember. Would psychosis or other mental snap do this? Erase memory of an event?

Where did Ethan work?

"Doing school"...never heard that term. I'm assuming he's doing school work or homework?

This James sounds like a piece of work. Apparently there was an out of control evening, and his son wakes up with no memory and a severe headache, and when asked if he's okay or does he remember what he did, the dad gets pissed and says he's busy and hasn't talked to him.

Talk about a dysfunctional household….

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Does waiving "conflict of interest" mean no appeals by the Crumbleys?

"Both of the parents are represented by Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman, both of whom practice law at the same law firm.

The parents have vociferously indicated in multiple lower court proceedings that they were waiving any potential conflicts of interest which might arise from the joint representation. Attorneys Smith and Lehman said they believed they could handle the proceedings without conflict requiring separate counsel."

I posted this previously on an earlier thread:
The Crumbleys have always had separate attorneys. James is represented by Mariell Lehman. Jennifer is represented by Shannon Smith. Originally, both attorneys were from the same firm, but they have since established their own private practices.

Michigan Criminal Sexual Conduct Defense Lawyer - Shannon Smith Law

Michigan Criminal Sexual Conduct Lawyer Shannon Smith is a criminal sexual conduct lawyer that has been defending the rights of those accused with CSC for over 16+ years. Free Consultation Aggressive Criminal Sexual Conduct Defense Shannon Smith is a criminal sexual conduct lawyer known for her...

defendingabuse.com

Home - Attorney Mariell R. Lehman

Highly sought after criminal defense attorney Mariel Lehman

mlehmanlaw.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Jennifer asking "Does he remember what he did?" is damning.
I'm not sure what a teenager could do that he wouldn't remember. Would psychosis or other mental snap do this? Erase memory of an event?

Where did Ethan work?

"Doing school"...never heard that term. I'm assuming he's doing school work or homework?

This James sounds like a piece of work. Apparently there was an out of control evening, and his son wakes up with no memory and a severe headache, and when asked if he's okay or does he remember what he did, the dad gets pissed and says he's busy and hasn't talked to him.

What about the Xanax?
Did she give EC Xanex or Melatolin the night before?
I don't see how a Melatolin pill would give one hang-over effects?
The way James referred to Xanax appears like giving EC a Xanax was nothing out of the ordinary.

Jennifer is supposedly going to take the stand and she's going to be hit with questions by the prosecutor that will make her head spin.
This text is a prime example.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Crumbley Lawyer Shannon Smith on Defending the Indefensible

Bloomfield Hills attorney Shannon Smith has defended Larry Nassar, the Crumbleys, and Northville doctor Jumana Nagarwala.

www.hourdetroit.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

I posted this previously on an earlier thread:
The Crumbleys have always had separate attorneys. James is represented by Mariell Lehman. Jennifer is represented by Shannon Smith. Originally, both attorneys were from the same firm, but they have since established their own private practices.

Michigan Criminal Sexual Conduct Defense Lawyer - Shannon Smith Law

Michigan Criminal Sexual Conduct Lawyer Shannon Smith is a criminal sexual conduct lawyer that has been defending the rights of those accused with CSC for over 16+ years. Free Consultation Aggressive Criminal Sexual Conduct Defense Shannon Smith is a criminal sexual conduct lawyer known for her...

defendingabuse.com

Home - Attorney Mariell R. Lehman

Highly sought after criminal defense attorney Mariel Lehman

mlehmanlaw.com

Thank you, I just read their bio's.

Does anyone know what the "new evidence" was that caused the Crumbley's to decide to have separate trials?

Nov.13,2023
"James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley had presented a united defense for two years. But their lawyers asked for separate trials after prosecutors shared new evidence."

Parents of Michigan school shooter will have separate trials, judge says

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — The parents of a Michigan school shooter will have separate trials for their alleged roles in the deaths of four students, a judge said Monday. James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley had presented a united defense for two years. But their lawyers asked for separate trials...

toronto.citynews.ca

 

[Izzylizzy]

I do recall hearing that Ethan's best friend was moved out of state due to some sort of depression or tragic event? But weren't they separated prior to that? Did the friend move to another school before that? It seemed like they were separated for a while but I cannot remember the circumstances.

I wonder if that mother of the friend will testify on Jennifer's behalf?

I would think that the prosecution would definitely want her on the stand any way they can get her.
She was Jennifer's go-to right after the tragic event caused by her son.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Shannon Smith played out in court this text as proof that Jennifer was a concerned,caring mom to EC.

I see it as a frantic mom who is real afraid of what her kid might be doing away from home.
Yes?


"Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley's attorney, said some text messages between Jennifer and her husband, James, show Jennifer was very concerned about the couple's son. In one string from March 2021, Crumbley was very worried when the shooter wasn't home from school yet, saying she was "freaking out," until her husband pointed out the teen didn't get home until 3:16 p.m.

Recap Day 4: Jennifer Crumbley's attorney refutes claim client didn't answer shooter's texts

Jennnifer Crumbley is being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four students at Oxford High School in November 2021.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thank you, I just read their bio's.

Does anyone know what the "new evidence" was that caused the Crumbley's to decide to have separate trials?

Nov.13,2023
"James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley had presented a united defense for two years. But their lawyers asked for separate trials after prosecutors shared new evidence."

James, Jennifer Crumbley to be tried separately after judge grants request

An Oakland County judge granted requests from James and Jennifer Crumbley to have their cases severed.

www.detroitnews.com

...Late Monday, Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Cheryl Matthews issued two separate orders granting separate motions from James and Jennifer Crumbley seeking to separate the cases. Both motions requested that James and Jennifer Crumbley's trials on four counts each of involuntary manslaughter be severed based on discovery received by the attorneys Nov. 2-3.

"Upon review of the recently-provided discovery, it is apparent that a conflict exists," wrote Mariell Lehman, attorney for James Crumbley.

Shannon Smith, the lawyer for Jennifer Crumbley, said the new evidence was based on law enforcement's "additional interviews of witnesses in Florida" on Oct. 31. There was no indication who the witnesses were or what the evidence might be other than that McDonald's office "provided the police reports and audio recorded copies of the interviews to the defense" on Nov. 2, 11 days before Monday's filings...

 

[Weki]

The cross examination of Jennifer Crumbley by DA McDonald is going to be intense!! I’m assuming McDonald has already started preparing for it.

Regarding the comments that the defense atty is performing. I see her as falling back on things that have worked for her in difficult situations. This kind of weaponized helplessness is a way to get people’s sympathy and support. This is how she goes through life. The judge has clearly fallen for it. So in that sense I don’t see it as an act for this occasion just something baked into how she moves through life. JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Crumbley Lawyer Shannon Smith on Defending the Indefensible

Bloomfield Hills attorney Shannon Smith has defended Larry Nassar, the Crumbleys, and Northville doctor Jumana Nagarwala.

www.hourdetroit.com

Shannon Smith has one reprehensible paper trail describing her thoughts on Nassar and his victims.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/us/nassar-lawyer-shannon-smith/index.html

 

[Izzylizzy]

I do recall hearing that Ethan's best friend was moved out of state due to some sort of depression or tragic event? But weren't they separated prior to that? Did the friend move to another school before that? It seemed like they were separated for a while but I cannot remember the circumstances.

I wonder if that mother of the friend will testify on Jennifer's behalf?

Was any info released about the friend?
I didn't bother looking because he's a minor and when it was mentioned yesterday in court that he was "sent away"and that was it, I again assumed that he was and is off limits in the trial due to his age.

 

[Izzylizzy]

James, Jennifer Crumbley to be tried separately after judge grants request

An Oakland County judge granted requests from James and Jennifer Crumbley to have their cases severed.

www.detroitnews.com

...Late Monday, Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Cheryl Matthews issued two separate orders granting separate motions from James and Jennifer Crumbley seeking to separate the cases. Both motions requested that James and Jennifer Crumbley's trials on four counts each of involuntary manslaughter be severed based on discovery received by the attorneys Nov. 2-3.

"Upon review of the recently-provided discovery, it is apparent that a conflict exists," wrote Mariell Lehman, attorney for James Crumbley.

Shannon Smith, the lawyer for Jennifer Crumbley, said the new evidence was based on law enforcement's "additional interviews of witnesses in Florida" on Oct. 31. There was no indication who the witnesses were or what the evidence might be other than that McDonald's office "provided the police reports and audio recorded copies of the interviews to the defense" on Nov. 2, 11 days before Monday's filings...

I can't see how Jennifer taking the stand and being examined by the prosecutors is going to help her.
The evidence against her may be so incriminating that Smith decided that they have nothing to lose?

All I can see is her trying to play on the jurors and any mothers on the jury's emotions with a lot of crying, sobbing, losing her breath and getting the judge to call for breaks so she can compose herself.

Until Jennifer is sworn in her lawyer saying that she will take the stand is a moot claim.

 

[bestill]

I think this is the only case that I have followed where the parents of the shooter went on the run. That move tells me there's a lot going on within the family and the parents texts are just a small portion of it.

Never heard the expression "doing school", I'm assuming that means that Ethan was in school.

All jmo

 

[IAMWAN]

I think this is the only case that I have followed where the parents of the shooter went on the run. That move tells me there's a lot going on within the family and the parents texts are just a small portion of it.

Never heard the expression "doing school", I'm assuming that means that Ethan was in school.

All jmo

Depending on the timing of the texts, he could have been “doing” online classes if they were still virtual. If these were texts from Spring 2021, a lot of Michigan schools were still hybrid and/or rotating in-person/virtual days. Or it could just be missing a word? Like “doing school work”.

 

[wyome]

I can't see how Jennifer taking the stand and being examined by the prosecutors is going to help her.
The evidence against her may be so incriminating that Smith decided that they have nothing to lose?

All I can see is her trying to play on the jurors and any mothers on the jury's emotions with a lot of crying, sobbing, losing her breath and getting the judge to call for breaks so she can compose herself.

Until Jennifer is sworn in her lawyer saying that she will take the stand is a moot claim.

I would think it would be beneficial due to the fact that she could testify, "I didn't reply to his texts because I read them when I was on my way home and had a lengthy conversation with him at that time. He was fine", blah blah blah. Ethan won't be called to back that up, so there will be no one to dispute her testimony.
I don't see a down-side to her testifying. They only have texts, and a lot of communication between family is done in the home.

And you're right, she will cry and sob and the jurors will see a prosecution trying to poke an already grieving mother.

I would though love to know what happened the night Ethan slept in their room and what he did the night before that he supposedly has no memory of that she felt the need to drug him.

 

[wyome]

Depending on the timing of the texts, he could have been “doing” online classes if they were still virtual. If these were texts from Spring 2021, a lot of Michigan schools were still hybrid and/or rotating in-person/virtual days. Or it could just be missing a word? Like “doing school work”.

Good point! I'm in Florida and we were the soonest back.

 

[Luna20]

Talk about a dysfunctional household….

Yes! Translates to the legal term “Existing Conflict” as the reason for Jennifer and James having separate attorneys.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

There was nothing brought in to evidence (yet!) that says she knew he was going to shoot up the school. That's going to be very hard for the state to prove imo

The state doesn't have to prove his parents "knew" he would shoot up the school. I think it's more about proving their negligence was so unreasonable and extreme that they should also be held responsible for the outcome. JMO.

I don't see how a Melatolin pill would give one hang-over effects?
The way James referred to Xanax appears like giving EC a Xanax was nothing out of the ordinary.

I tried melatonin- just 1 mg.- once and awoke to feel groggy and more tired than usual. JMO.

Xanax is a prescription medication for anxiety -- I am so curious if the Crumbleys actually managed to get a prescription for it, and if so, for which one of them, and why?