GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[Weki]

I get that this case is upsetting but if you can’t handle the heat why take the case? The defense atty seems panicky right outta the gate. Everyone is working around the clock - that’s just the nature of litigation. She keeps acting like the state has not provided her the exhibits they will be using and she’s like OK fine I’ll go through the voluminous stack and dig it out over the weekend! Ma’am!!!

What’s the purpose of co-counsel sitting pretty at the table? Can’t he help her with the projector? I’m so confused as to his purpose here. She said he just joined the case. So? He can still help!

JMO

 

[MrsWatson]

I feel like neither of those possibilities should have been ignored by the parents (not saying that you are implying one is better than the other). If my child was telling me any of these things, I would be doing some deep dives into what was going on. No matter whether they are sincerely seeing/believing these things or seeking attention, it should have been taken seriously. MOO.

Exactly. This is not any sort of grey area, to me.

 

[MrsWatson]

Holy cats, this is....

I'm a Crime Hag going back many years, and I am a Michigan girl, no matter where I live. MI courts are pretty straightforward, as far as you get sentenced to LWOP, there is a 99.99% chance you will indeed serve LWOP. You don't get let go after the preliminary hearing, you are likely guilty.

This defense attorney. Oi. Is she having some sort of breakdown? She defended Larry freaking Nassar, this isn't her first rodeo.

Kudos to the judge, she's being very accommodating and erring on the side of caution. She has a history of dealing with child centered cases and seems very level-headed.

All MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Jennifer Crumbley’s convicted killer ‘best friend’ is kicked out of school shooting trial

Megan Imirowicz called Ms Crumbley her ‘best friend’ after the pair spent time together in the same Michigan prison

news.yahoo.com

​

 

[wyome]

I get that this case is upsetting but if you can’t handle the heat why take the case? The defense atty seems panicky right outta the gate. Everyone is working around the clock - that’s just the nature of litigation. She keeps acting like the state has not provided her the exhibits they will be using and she’s like OK fine I’ll go through the voluminous stack and dig it out over the weekend! Ma’am!!!

What’s the purpose of co-counsel sitting pretty at the table? Can’t he help her with the projector? I’m so confused as to his purpose here. She said he just joined the case. So? He can still help!

JMO

I understand from her objections that the prosecution didn't provide to the defense the SAME format the court received, which means she had to backtrack and fastforward a lot. I'm sure that sucked, especially when her co-council was completely useless.

 

[wyome]

Jennifer Crumbley’s convicted killer ‘best friend’ is kicked out of school shooting trial

Megan Imirowicz called Ms Crumbley her ‘best friend’ after the pair spent time together in the same Michigan prison

news.yahoo.com

​

Seems like a parent that screwed up her only kid is trying again to help another in prison write a poignant letter that might change her life.

 

[arielilane]

Includes 27 photos at link.

Recap Day 4: Jennifer Crumbley's attorney refutes claim client didn't answer shooter's texts​

Recap Day 4: Jennifer Crumbley's attorney refutes claim client didn't answer shooter's texts

Jennnifer Crumbley is being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four students at Oxford High School in November 2021.

www.detroitnews.com

Updated 4:53 p.m. ET

1/26/2024

 

[benowens]

I have been following this case for a while because I had a phase of being strongly interested in school shootings. Happy to see this <modsnip> found guilty.

 

[Weki]

I understand from her objections that the prosecution didn't provide to the defense the SAME format the court received, which means she had to backtrack and fastforward a lot. I'm sure that sucked, especially when her co-council was completely useless.

I may need to go back and relisten cause the state was vociferous in arguing they gave her all the exhibits that will be used at trial on a thumb drive. That’s what she printed out and put on her table for show and tell. So she has hard copy and electronic copy. Then she finally said I will go dig it out. If they are giving her a list of specific exhibits prior to each witness that seems fair to me, I get that it’s a lot but she’s also had all this evidence for 2 years at least. She should know all these texts and messages like the back of her hand by now - I’m sorry but that’s what good preparation means. She should know the state’s case and how they intend to show her client’s culpability. It is malpractice to come to trial so ill prepared. This case has been pending for a long while. JMO, of course.

 

[wyome]

I may need to go back and relisten cause the state was vociferous in arguing they gave her all the exhibits that will be used at trial on a thumb drive. That’s what she printed out and put on her table for show and tell. So she has hard copy and electronic copy. Then she finally said I will go dig it out. If they are giving her a list of specific exhibits prior to each witness that seems fair to me, I get that it’s a lot but she’s also had all this evidence for 2 years at least. She should know all these texts and messages like the back of her hand by now - I’m sorry but that’s what good preparation means. She should know the state’s case and how they intend to show her client’s culpability. It is malpractice to come to trial so ill prepared. This case has been pending for a long while. JMO, of course.

When you go back and listen let me know if I'm wrong. They DID provide her everything, is what I understand. But it was 2,000+ pages, but NOT in the order or sequence they were submitting in court.

 

[RickshawFan]

What a messy court room. We need some maturity and calmness, the defense attorney is really on the edge. Is this her first case?

She seems to have handled some VERY public cases before, e.g. Larry Nasser. See my post ^^^^. I can't figure out how she could be so incompetent when it's not like this is her first rodeo.

 

[RickshawFan]

I feel like neither of those possibilities should have been ignored by the parents (not saying that you are implying one is better than the other). If my child was telling me any of these things, I would be doing some deep dives into what was going on. No matter whether they are sincerely seeing/believing these things or seeking attention, it should have been taken seriously. MOO.

IMO it went way beyond merely "ignoring". IMO he was needy and trying to get his parents' attention because humans need meaningful human contact, and to feel support and empathy from others. It seems as though he was completely cut off, his parents had zero nourishing moments with him (gosh knows, whether he had food nourishment, either)..... IMO a person would indeed become psychotic under these conditions, and it would be a NORMAL outcome.

My sense for this comes from the expert testimony by a Brown University psychiatrist in the Ferriter trial. He talked about what prisons are required to provide to juveniles, otherwise they become psychotic. The damage is permanent. I would venture to bet Ethan's treatment didn't tick the boxes.

One item I recall the psychiatrist saying is that a detained juvenile can call out and get help. Ethan didn't get that; he had the endless frustration of not having his cries for help answered. You cannot put juveniles in solitary because that's considered cruel and unusual. Juveniles get meals. Someone checks that they're okay. They get health checks (however rudimentary); I don't believe Ethan was even on his parents' insurance?

 

[RickshawFan]

Wow, sorry I missed court today! Does anyone know if it was taped on any of the YouTube channels?

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[Vaderman]

I'm generally not this cynical, but I find it hard to believe that the defense attorney's apparent "incompetence" is sincere and seems more like acting for the jury.

Edit--

Also, from what I have seen so far, it doesn't seem all that different from when she defended Larry Nasser. Indignant, whiney, etc.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm generally not this cynical, but I find it hard to believe that the defense attorney's apparent "incompetence" is sincere and seems more like acting for the jury.

Edit--

Also, from what I have seen so far, it doesn't seem all that different from when she defended Larry Nasser. Indignant, whiney, etc.

But she sounds like a petulant child, and her questions are a mess.

Nasser pleaded guilty, so she was able to forego the trial phase in that case.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm generally not this cynical, but I find it hard to believe that the defense attorney's apparent "incompetence" is sincere and seems more like acting for the jury.

Edit--

Also, from what I have seen so far, it doesn't seem all that different from when she defended Larry Nasser. Indignant, whiney, etc.

Deliberately acting "incompetent" for the jury?

Or is she over-acting for the cameras that put her front and center in the media? Many attorneys play to the cameras.

2 Cents

 

[Izzylizzy]

Take it from 7:49:00 and see the prosecutor put the kibash on Smiths cross examination of Ed Wagrowski, the computer crimes expert, it's not too long.
Then right after don't miss it when the jury leaves for the weekend and the prosecutors and defense attorney have it out.

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[Izzylizzy]

Anyone else watching the defense attorney Shannon Smith and see Rachel Ray holding a bottle of EVOO? lol
At one point today the Judge told Smith she needs to relax this weekend in sweat pants and a glass of wine.
I can't put my finger on it but I find the dynamics of this trial off somehow because it doesn't feel like a real trial to me.
I still don't get this judge with her remarks and mannerisms.
Oh, well.

 

[Cool Cats]

Anyone else watching the defense attorney Shannon Smith and see Rachel Ray holding a bottle of EVOO? lol
At one point today the Judge told Smith she needs to relax this weekend in sweat pants and a glass of wine.
I can't put my finger on it but I find the dynamics of this trial off somehow because it doesn't feel like a real trial to me.
I still don't get this judge with her remarks and mannerisms.
Oh, well.

Unprofessional

 

[Izzylizzy]

Unprofessional

Indeed.

I was bitching yesterday about the judge and how I don't see her as being the authority in her courtroom.