GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[Izzylizzy]

They just keep coming.

"Meloche knew the Crumbleys had bought their son a gun a few days before and asked where it was before Crumbley's meeting with school officials. Crumbley told him the gun was in her vehicle, and Meloche said he told her that was not a good place to keep it, he testified.

“With my background and everything, I know that was just, if something was going to occur, that (the gun) would produce immediate irreparable damage,” Meloche said.

Crumbley told Meloche she had the “string lock” – referring to the cable that goes through the gun’s slide and magazine, making it impossible to load a magazine — was on the gun she and her husband had just bought their son, that it was secured, unloaded and the bullets were stored separately.'

Recap Day 7: Messages to friend show Jennifer Crumbley blamed school officials for being 'nonchalant'

Crumbley is charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the deaths of four students at Oxford High School in 2021.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Will the prosecution call witnesses from Florida?
It was said today that they will be resting their case...?
Brian Meloche, the ex-boyfriend is now retired, did he get out of town and retire to Florida?


Nov.13,3023
"In documents filed Monday morning, lawyers for the Crumbleys asked the judge to "sever" the couple's upcoming trial on involuntary manslaughter charges, maintaining that new information has surfaced in the case that could be prejudicial to both. Specifically, records show, at least two prosecution witnesses from Florida have come forward with information that could harm one, or both, of the parents.

Judge orders separate trials for James, Jennifer Crumbley in Oxford H.S. shooting case

Prosecutors won't stand in the way of James and Jennifer Crumbley having separate trials.

www.freep.com

 

[RickshawFan]

It doesn't seem like JC has any close friends. She seems to treat Kira like a genuine friend, and Kira probably sees her as a customer that she has to be friendly with. I give JC some slack for her preoccupation with her horses. I don't condone her parenting obviously, but her relationships with the people closest to her was obviously strained and distant. JC seems as lonely as her son.

She paid large sums for vet care for the horses and had no health insurance on Ethan. IIRC he didn't get medical care of any kind, and no dental examinations. JC could easily have put Ethan on her work policy.
As for friends, she evidently had a thing for men. I would count that as close. I suspect she otherwise wasn't well-liked, perhaps because the way she treated her son was a general pattern for her. It’s hard to have friends if you take them for granted, don’t listen to their needs, ignore them because you like your horses more, etc. etc.

 

[Cool Cats]

She paid large sums for vet care for the horses and had no health insurance on Ethan. IIRC he didn't get medical care of any kind, and no dental examinations. JC could easily have put Ethan on her work policy.
As for friends, she evidently had a thing for men. I would count that as close. I suspect she otherwise wasn't well-liked, perhaps because the way she treated her son was a general pattern for her. It’s hard to have friends if you take them for granted, don’t listen to their needs, ignore them because you like your horses more, etc. etc.

No health coverage no dental care for Ethan?

Did someone say this in court? Or is someone just assuming?

 

[Cool Cats]

Michigan school shooter’s mother makes regret-filled admission on police video

After Mr Crumbley said their son was ‘doodling’ on a practice test, Ms Crumbley suggested they get an attorney

news.yahoo.com

Later in the interview, Ms Crumbley said the school counselor “didn’t seem worried” about the drawing and said that Ethan could either stay at school or his parents could take him home.

“And I really wish we took him home,” she can be heard saying.

 

[cottonweaver]

No health coverage no dental care for Ethan?

Did someone say this in court? Or is someone just assuming?

The only evidence I can recall on this is witness Andrew Smith testifying about the health insurance Jennifer had. He was her boss and was asked to go through Jennifer's HR records and one of the forms was for her health insurance. He was asked whether she had checked the box for family add-ons for Ethan. No.

Andrew Smith might have been asked how much that would have cost. but I can't remember all of it. (Trial Day 4?)

PS On the pet issue from previous page, Ethan did have a cat. It was in one of his last texts to his Mom: Please look after the cat.

 

[cottonweaver]

Empty bottle of the same Canadian Moose was in the trash at the studio. ( Same brand as the bottle which was photographed in Ethan's bedroom doorway)

wikipedia has the couple leaving Ethan home alone so they could go out drinking, in the past


'A former neighbor told the Detroit Free Press that, shortly after the family moved to Michigan a few years later, in 2014 and 2015, Crumbley's parents Jennifer and James often left their son home alone and without a phone while frequenting bars in downtown Lake Orion. The neighbor became so concerned that she filed an anonymous complaint via phone to the state's child protective services agency, but she did not know if any action was taken.[61] '

I appreciate that the state aren't trying to make a case of poor parenting per se but the wiki entry is still interesting because if true, Ethan would have only been 8 or 9. ( In some of his old recorded journals, along with his crazy talk, he also remarks that his expectations of a ' caring life' were mistaken or wtte)

Oxford High School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

replying to self because it's the same former friend as in the wikipedia entry

and re Jennifer maintaining friendships

old article
“When they were gone, he would come knock on our door,” LeMieux said of the boy. “They didn’t leave him with a phone.”
The boy would ask LeMieux to call his parents, she said.

The Crumbleys’ townhomes complex was on Atwater Street, less than a 10-minute walk to the heart of downtown Lake Orion. LeMieux lived in the same complex, she said.
LeMieux, who also worked as a restaurant server with Jennifer in 2012, considered her a friend and said they would often hang out at downtown spots together. But the relationship soured partly because she was concerned the boy was left home alone, she said.

“It was really when I finally started to say more, because I was just like, even after calling CPS, they were still doing it and even me saying something to them, they were still like ‘Oh he is fine,’ ” LeMieux said.
LeMieux supplied the Free Press what she said were Facebook messenger conversations she had in 2015 with Jennifer and James Crumbley, accounts that currently appear to be deleted.

James and Jennifer Crumbley join son in custody after late-night capture in Detroit

Little over a week ago, the Crumbley family was bragging on social media about the new gun purchased for 15-year-old Ethan Crumbley, prosecutors say

eu.freep.com

Further down the page at this link is James Crumbley's child support issues for his two older kids, in case anybody interested

 

[MrsWatson]

Testimony: Jennifer Crumbley blamed Oxford school officials for shooting in texts

Crumbley, now on trial for four counts of involuntary manslaughter, accused school officials of being nonchalant and allowing shooter to return to class.

eu.detroitnews.com

Jennifer Crumbley claims Oxford school 'failed my son and 4 families' in message to lover

Messages to ex-lover after Ethan Crumbley killed four show mother saying "I failed as a parent" and her son "is 'going to have to suffer."

eu.freep.com

 

[Cool Cats]

wikipedia has the couple leaving Ethan home alone so they could go out drinking, in the past


'A former neighbor told the Detroit Free Press that, shortly after the family moved to Michigan a few years later, in 2014 and 2015, Crumbley's parents Jennifer and James often left their son home alone and without a phone while frequenting bars in downtown Lake Orion. The neighbor became so concerned that she filed an anonymous complaint via phone to the state's child protective services agency, but she did not know if any action was taken.[61] '

I appreciate that the state aren't trying to make a case of poor parenting per se but the wiki entry is still interesting because if true, Ethan would have only been 8 or 9. ( In some of his old recorded journals, along with his crazy talk, he also remarks that his expectations of a ' caring life' were mistaken or wtte)

Oxford High School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You keep coming up with interesting information.

Are there photos of Ethan's room with the bottle?

 

[cottonweaver]

You keep coming up with interesting information.

Are there photos of Ethan's room with the bottle?

If you go to the timestamp shown in the screenshot, the context and other photos will come up. When the LEO testified about all of the house photos the state didn't go into details about the bottle, iirc they just showed the photo.

Other posters already mentioned text exchanges between J& J talking about E having a hangover and also E being unsteady when he worked at the diner, although IDK if alcohol was specifically mentioned.
Jennifer's co-worker, Amanda Holland, also testified that Jennifer had told her, one time that Ethan had ' fainted at work'
--------
BTW Amanda Holland also testified that Jennifer once told her that her son’s only friend was leaving, that she was concerned about him being lonely, and "mentioned that he was hearing things in the house.”
( Obviously I'm no Psych but if you're hearing voices, not surprised if you'd want to self-medicate with booze)

Amanda Holland testifying around 8mins at the link ( E being locked outside after a fight & hearing voices/things. Not much detail there but maybe when he was locked out, angry Ethan would go play with his cap gun in the shed? Photos of shed interior with chair, spent cartridges and lots of BB guns are in the previous link at the 28minute mark)

 

[nightowl1975]

If I were a juror, I think I would struggle with the fact that the school officials also didn’t think Ethan’s behavior was egregious enough to remove him from the classroom or school. If they were THAT concerned, they could’ve asked permission to look through his backpack. They could’ve called the police to do an investigation. They could’ve sent Ethan to whatever their version of in school suspension is. They could’ve kept him in the office if the parents outright refused to take him home.

Yet, they did none of that. And I don’t for one second believe it was because they thought he was going to kill others and just didn’t care to intervene. I think they never really thought it would actually happen in their school. Just like I think it’s entirely possible the parents never really thought their son would murder classmates.

 

[IAMWAN]

If I were a juror, I think I would struggle with the fact that the school officials also didn’t think Ethan’s behavior was egregious enough to remove him from the classroom or school. If they were THAT concerned, they could’ve asked permission to look through his backpack. They could’ve called the police to do an investigation. They could’ve sent Ethan to whatever their version of in school suspension is. They could’ve kept him in the office if the parents outright refused to take him home.

Yet, they did none of that. And I don’t for one second believe it was because they thought he was going to kill others and just didn’t care to intervene. I think they never really thought it would actually happen in their school. Just like I think it’s entirely possible the parents never really thought their son would murder classmates.

I agree that no one saw this coming, but the Crumbley’s DID have one very important piece of information that the school did not…They knew they had bought him that gun a few days before the shooting occurred.

And while they didn’t think their son would murder his classmates, at the very least when the counselor suggested that he might harm himself, I would think that should have been mentioned. Even if it was just “we have firearms at home but they are secured” (if, in fact, they were). Maybe just the mention of access to weapons would have prompted a backpack search? Hindsight is 20/20 though, so it’s all just conjecture at this point.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Just like I think it’s entirely possible the parents never really thought their son would murder classmates.

But a person doesn't have to actually predict the possibility of the death to be guilty of manslaughter.

Manslaughter doesn't mean his parents meant it to happen nor thought it could happen. They aren't being charged with murder.

The point is that you can't do obviously dangerous things that cause a death and then get away with it because you say, Oops, sorry, I was in denial of the possible outcomes.
All IMO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

She paid large sums for vet care for the horses and had no health insurance on Ethan. IIRC he didn't get medical care of any kind, and no dental examinations. JC could easily have put Ethan on her work policy.
As for friends, she evidently had a thing for men. I would count that as close. I suspect she otherwise wasn't well-liked, perhaps because the way she treated her son was a general pattern for her. It’s hard to have friends if you take them for granted, don’t listen to their needs, ignore them because you like your horses more, etc. etc.

If JC takes the stand maybe we'll find out if she had medical insurance on her horses?(scream)

Sadly the prosecution didn't ask her that...IIRC:

Kira Pennock testified that JC paid $800.00 a month to board both horses,then there's the vet bills and the 2 horse's supplements, which Kira said are expensive.
The 400.00 a month for each horse probably does not include grain and hay.
IIRC: The horse lessons with Kira were 35.00 per?
Then there's all the supplies and maintenance costs.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Michigan school shooter’s mother makes regret-filled admission on police video

After Mr Crumbley said their son was ‘doodling’ on a practice test, Ms Crumbley suggested they get an attorney

news.yahoo.com

Later in the interview, Ms Crumbley said the school counselor “didn’t seem worried” about the drawing and said that Ethan could either stay at school or his parents could take him home.

“And I really wish we took him home,” she can be heard saying.

As we all now know the counselors were worried enough about the drawing to want parents to get mental help for EC even that day.

JC appears to make it up as she goes along, depending on who she's speaking with.

On the morning of 11-30 before the meeting she told/texted b'friend that the gun was secured in her car..he said that's a rel bad place to keep it.
Yet the gun was in her bedroom in the armoire.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I stand corrected.
It was 4 days after the gun was bought for EC that he massacred innocents.

No electronic evidence was found throughout the forensic investigation of JC looking for any psych help for her son.

I stand corrected..again.
Forensic evidence showed that JC looked up "depression" on the internet iirc: on the early morning hours of 11-30-21.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Page 8 shows that JC contacted Kira two minutes after driving out of the school parking lot on 11-30-21 about her horse lesson that night and to see if the vet had visited her horse yet.

https://www.courts.michigan.gov/495705/siteassets/case-documents/uploads/opinions/final/coa/20230323_c362210_69_362210.opn.pdf

 

[Izzylizzy]

Day 6
Waiting:

 

[cottonweaver]

DBM duplicate

 

[Izzylizzy]

I does sound like EC said "I did it" before JC said "why why".

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7330005043111791915