GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[ChatteringBirds]

This was interesting:
"...Keast asked Brian whether the shooter was saying, “I did it” at the same time as his father said, “I love you.” Keast was implying that James Crumbley only said “I love you” to try to drown out his son admitting to a crime.

Brian confirmed that those statements were made by James Crumbley and his son at the same time. Keast asked if James Crumbley’s voice rose in volume, and Brian said yes..."

5 key moments from Day 2 of trial for James Crumbley, father of Oxford High School shooter

When did James Crumbley go home? Why did he shout, "I love you"? There were 50 bullets at the school. Here are the key takeaways from Day 2 of the trial for the Oxford High School shooter's father.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I wonder what the jury thinks about the emotions James shows.

"As James watched the surveillance video of the shooting, he kept his hand over his mouth, gaze locked on the screen. He began crying again when the shooter appeared on screen and he averted his eyes."

James Crumbley to police hours after shooting: Son was 'perfect kid'

Meeting with detectives just hours after the 2021 shooting, Crumbley said his son was fine that morning. He's now on trial for involuntary manslaughter.

eu.detroitnews.com

 

[Cool Cats]

How James Crumbley's DoorDash runs came back to haunt him

James Crumbley gets emotional as he sees son in video during his rampage at Oxford High School.

news.yahoo.com

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Why this piece of evidence in the James Crumbley case is a big deal to prosecutors

Prosecutors are emphasizing the fact that James Crumbley never stopped at his Oxford home in the hours leading up to the 2021 high school shooting, despite driving past it several times that day and being armed with potentially concerning information.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Why this piece of evidence in the James Crumbley case is a big deal to prosecutors

Prosecutors are emphasizing the fact that James Crumbley never stopped at his Oxford home in the hours leading up to the 2021 high school shooting, despite driving past it several times that day and being armed with potentially concerning information.

www.clickondetroit.com

Guilty for these 3 reasons:

1.) Bought gun
2.) Says he hid it and hid ammo but never locked the gun up

3.) From article...

While at home, James Crumbley called 911 and told dispatchers that he heard there was a shooting, he noticed the 9mm handgun was missing from his house, and he didn’t know if his son took the gun or not. James Crumbley said he was freaking out. Prosecutors argue the father suspected his son was the school shooter, even before the shooter’s name was released to the public.

EDIT #4
Prosecutors also pulled up the shooter’s disturbing drawing of a firearm, saying Mr Crumbley “knew the origin of this drawing.”

 

[Sundog]

Guilty for these 3 reasons:

1.) Bought gun
2.) Says he hid it and hid ammo but never locked the gun up

3.) From article...

While at home, James Crumbley called 911 and told dispatchers that he heard there was a shooting, he noticed the 9mm handgun was missing from his house, and he didn’t know if his son took the gun or not. James Crumbley said he was freaking out. Prosecutors argue the father suspected his son was the school shooter, even before the shooter’s name was released to the public.

EDIT #4
Prosecutors also pulled up the shooter’s disturbing drawing of a firearm, saying Mr Crumbley “knew the origin of this drawing.”

I don't find any of the evidence so far in the slightest way convincing. JC didn't go home after the school meeting because he couldn't imagine anything happening like the school shooting that happened that day. So he went back to his work which was delivering Doordash. Later, when, along with other parents, he got the text about the school shooting, he still couldn't imagine it was his own son who was the perpetrator, but then something kicked in, his meeting at the school, the gun they just bought Ethan, and he connected the two, OMG, could it be my son? And rushed to his home to check, probably more to rule it out and get back his sanity, but lo and behold it was his son. The gun was missing. And then it hit him that it was Ethan, and he called the police.


I don't see any of this as evidence against JC.

 

[Sundog]

This was interesting:
"...Keast asked Brian whether the shooter was saying, “I did it” at the same time as his father said, “I love you.” Keast was implying that James Crumbley only said “I love you” to try to drown out his son admitting to a crime.

Brian confirmed that those statements were made by James Crumbley and his son at the same time. Keast asked if James Crumbley’s voice rose in volume, and Brian said yes..."

5 key moments from Day 2 of trial for James Crumbley, father of Oxford High School shooter

When did James Crumbley go home? Why did he shout, "I love you"? There were 50 bullets at the school. Here are the key takeaways from Day 2 of the trial for the Oxford High School shooter's father.

www.clickondetroit.com

My guess is that JC may have repeated his words and tried to talk over Ethan because he wanted EC to have a lawyer before he said more. This would be a knee-jerk reaction by many parents faced with this unthinkable situation, out of despair. An instinctual protective act.

 

[Sundog]

How James Crumbley's DoorDash runs came back to haunt him

James Crumbley gets emotional as he sees son in video during his rampage at Oxford High School.

news.yahoo.com

It doesn't convict JC in my mind, why would he stop at his house when never in his imagination would he think that Ethan would be capable of doing something like this?

In fact, it does the opposite, it shows that JC had no idea his son was capable of something like this and so he continued to do his work, delivering Doordash, even close by to his own neighborhood. If he had thought that Ethan was capable of the shooting, then he would have stopped to check, and that would have convicted him in people's minds.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't find any of the evidence so far in the slightest way convincing. JC didn't go home after the school meeting because he couldn't imagine anything happening like the school shooting that happened that day. So he went back to his work which was delivering Doordash. Later, when, along with other parents, he got the text about the school shooting, he still couldn't imagine it was his own son who was the perpetrator, but then something kicked in, his meeting at the school, the gun they just bought Ethan, and he connected the two, OMG, could it be my son? And rushed to his home to check, probably more to rule it out and get back his sanity, but lo and behold it was his son. The gun was missing. And then it hit him that it was Ethan, and he called the police.


I don't see any of this as evidence against JC.

Can't have cake and eat it too as the saying goes.

He called 911 before he knew the shooter was his son. He told 911 he was "Freaking Out." His gun was missing his son could be the shooter or involved. Not exact words but he knew.

In his own words for jury to hear.

2 Cents

 

[Sundog]

Can't have cake and eat it too as the saying goes.

He called 911 before he knew the shooter was his son. He told 911 he was "Freaking Out." His gun was missing his son could be the shooter or involved. Not exact words but he knew.

In his own words for jury to hear.

2 Cents

Yes, but after the fact. And then he did the right thing and called LE when all the pieces clicked together in his head.

 

[Cool Cats]

It doesn't convict JC in my mind, why would he stop at his house when never in his imagination would he think that Ethan would be capable of doing something like this?

In fact, it does the opposite, it shows that JC had no idea his son was capable of something like this and so he continued to do his work, delivering Doordash, even close by to his own neighborhood. If he had thought that Ethan was capable of the shooting, then he would have stopped to check, and that would have convicted him in people's minds.

You have to prove intent and prove what a reasonable person would know and do. Trials are not just about "guessing" what the defendant was thinking.

They have evidence, proof, to show the jury James knew there was a gun unsecured in his house and James knew, or a reasonable person would see, that the gun Ethan drew was a very detailed drawing of the gun James JUST bought for him...Only 4 DAYS PRIOR!

A non-negligent parent is going to reasonably pull in his driveway to check the gun then call the school and 911 at that time. 4 lives saved

He drove past his house 4 times, or so.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, but after the fact. And then he did the right thing and called LE when all the pieces clicked together in his head.

"After the fact" is a way to sum it up.

Too little too late.

2 Cents

 

[Sundog]

You have to prove intent and prove what a reasonable person would know and do. Trials are not just about "guessing" what the defendant was thinking.

They have evidence, proof, to show the jury James knew there was a gun unsecured in his house and James knew, or a reasonable person would see, that the gun Ethan drew was a very detailed drawing of the gun James JUST bought for him...Only 4 DAYS PRIOR!

A non-negligent parent is going to reasonably pull in his driveway to check the gun then call the school and 911 at that time. 4 lives saved

He drove past his house 4 times, or so.

2 Cents

We'll have to agree to disagree, as two reasonable people often do.

 

[Cool Cats]

We'll have to agree to disagree, as two reasonable people often do.

We might agree actually. If you think the Crumbley's were over-charged.

I hesitate to give my real opinion on these charges because it can be misinterpreted.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I find myself sometimes sympathizing with EC (for the sadness he felt in his life to do such a horrible thing). Obviously my focus on sympathy is with the victims’ families.

The pandemic was hard for everyone. I parented a young teenager and it sucked. Home schooling with less than agreeable kids, remote work at the same time, worrying about everything. But, as a parent, I didn’t realize I had the option of thinking, you’re on your own kid, suck it up and deal with it.

Maybe his mental health issues really exacerbated during Covid. Who knows. But spending all her time with her horses and boyfriend doesn’t sound Covid related, more like selfishness.

I have a great deal of sympathy for EC. I do not for his mother. At sentencing, he took responsibility and hopes to help others in some way. This may be the poorest excuse for a mother I've ever seen. EC was begging for help, and his parents couldn't be bothered to take him home from school. He doesn't deserve the LWOP sentence, but his parents might. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

You have to prove intent and prove what a reasonable person would know and do. Trials are not just about "guessing" what the defendant was thinking.

They have evidence, proof, to show the jury James knew there was a gun unsecured in his house and James knew, or a reasonable person would see, that the gun Ethan drew was a very detailed drawing of the gun James JUST bought for him...Only 4 DAYS PRIOR!

A non-negligent parent is going to reasonably pull in his driveway to check the gun then call the school and 911 at that time. 4 lives saved

He drove past his house 4 times, or so.

2 Cents

EC should have been with them. The school requested that they take him home.

 

[BrownRice]

I have a great deal of sympathy for EC. I do not for his mother. At sentencing, he took responsibility and hopes to help others in some way. This may be the poorest excuse for a mother I've ever seen. EC was begging for help, and his parents couldn't be bothered to take him home from school. He doesn't deserve the LWOP sentence, but his parents might. MOO

I gree about mom. I’m watching dad’s trial now and imo he’s just as worthless.

However, I do feel Ethan should be in prison forever. He killed 4 teenagers.

 

[BrownRice]

EC should have been with them. The school requested that they take him home.

It’s so tragic. Before ECs only friend moved, he told his parents he needed mental health help. They completely disregarded this. Suck it up. Even after his best friend moved suddenly and EC had no means to cope, they left him at home on Halloween to go to a party. Then they are called to school, shown his drawings and they both go back to work? What the actual *&$#. They should have been on the phone AT HOME trying to find emergency mental health services.

And let’s not forget, ECs mother wouldn’t go back to change any of those events.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It’s so tragic. Before ECs only friend moved, he told his parents he needed mental health help. They completely disregarded this. Suck it up. Even after his best friend moved suddenly and EC had no means to cope, they left him at home on Halloween to go to a party. Then they are called to school, shown his drawings and they both go back to work? What the actual *&$#. They should have been on the phone AT HOME trying to find emergency mental health services.

And let’s not forget, ECs mother wouldn’t go back to change any of those events.

Yes, I could not believe how cold and unfeeling she was at her trial. Her own son is spending LWOP, but she wouldn't change a thing!?

 

[musicaljoke]

I don't find any of the evidence so far in the slightest way convincing. JC didn't go home after the school meeting because he couldn't imagine anything happening like the school shooting that happened that day. So he went back to his work which was delivering Doordash. Later, when, along with other parents, he got the text about the school shooting, he still couldn't imagine it was his own son who was the perpetrator, but then something kicked in, his meeting at the school, the gun they just bought Ethan, and he connected the two, OMG, could it be my son? And rushed to his home to check, probably more to rule it out and get back his sanity, but lo and behold it was his son. The gun was missing. And then it hit him that it was Ethan, and he called the police.


I don't see any of this as evidence against JC.

The fact that he couldn't imagine what was to take place does not free him from his parental duties and responsibilities.