GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[Jacie Estes]

Maybe KC should make a list of the abused and battered woman . I hate to think they have all these women abused and battered roaming arround the rez while their children are being murdered.

Seriously WTH..

"Maybe KC should make a list of the abused and battered woman"

Seriously WTH..

CONFIDENTIALITY!?!?

 

[Jacie Estes]

DV services of Saginaw Chippewa Tribe:

http://www.sagchip.org/behavioralhealth/DVshelter.htm

http://www.sagchip.org/behavioralhealth/Images/PDFs/2008-DVServicesbrochure.pdf

 

[Knox]

I don't think that even implies he was condoning it at all, he was just trying to provide some insight for people giving so much hate to Jaimee. No, she did not do the right thing, but this is NOT about Jaimee and her lack of parenting skills it is about the murder of her son. Jaimee is a victim until legally proven otherwise. She lost her baby boy. Like he said, before you walk a mile in ones shoes do not judge.

Does anyone know if the Grandma had been raising him? Why didn't she intervene?

Did I say or imply that he condoned Carnel's treatment? :waitasec:
In my opinion, he was letting people know he realizes JC's shortcomings and that there was a lack of action on her part.

According to what her brother says; Grandma was not allowed to talk to Carnel after he left her care. She had no idea what was going on.

 

[Amster]

Has J claimed she was abused? Any proof she was abused? Link please.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Maybe KC should make a list of the abused and battered woman . I hate to think they have all these women abused and battered roaming arround the rez while their children are being murdered.

Seriously WTH..

Soulmagent, the use of confidentiality in domestic/intimate violence is crucial. Without it fewer victims would come forward. As it is many are afraid to now.

 

[ynotdivein]

:lurk:

Whoa, it's getting warm in here.

Please all, remember to disagree respectfully when you disagree.

We don't like to see good posters turning their frustrations against one another (and there is plenty to be frustrated about here).

 

[katydid23]

You do realize that money doesn't stop a cycle of abuse, right? If money - whether through a job, an inheritance, or casino bonuses - were the magic bullet, then we would never see abuse of women or children in wealthy families.

But we all know that wealthy families are not exempt from domestic abuse. So what is the point of even mentioning casino bonuses?

The point is that some people were saying she was 'trapped' by this monster because she was a single mom raising her child alone.

And my point, which I think is valid, is that she received casino bonuses, which would assure that she could always feed and clothe her child. Not all single mothers have that situation.

She was in her own hometown, surrounded by well meaning family and friends, many who had warned her about this felon. So she had plenty of avenues of escape if need be. And she had the money she would need if she wanted to move away.

So imo, those bonuses were important part of the story. And who says that SHE was being abused. I don't see any evidence of that at all.

 

[Donjeta]

Did I say or imply that he condoned Carnel's treatment? :waitasec:
In my opinion, he was letting people know he realizes JC's shortcomings and that there was a lack of action on her part.

According to what her brother says; Grandma was not allowed to talk to Carnel after he left her care. She had no idea what was going on.

Well, that in itself is a huge red flag.

 

[SyraKelly]

I was not going to tell my story on here as I don't like a lot of personal stuff on the computer-but I am sitting here reading things about DV & its effects on young women.I am speaking to this case only-Jaimee & her age!
I was 21 when I met my husband
22 when I married him
23 when I had my daughter
25 when I became a widow
I was so naive at 22 that I had not a clue what my role as a wife should be & even more clueless as a mother.(Dysf family life)
He was fine when we dated-the minute we got married-I became his possession & obsession.The abuse started immed & lasted 3 long yrs.He tried killing me 3x-his constant need for attention was taken away when our daughter was born.The abuse got worse-One day he was yelling at our daughter so very loud-I was terrified b/c I knew he was seconds away from hitting her.I jump in front of her & calmed him down.
He worked 2nd at the time-He went to work and so did I!! I pack a bag & with no job-no money-no family & no where to go-I pick up my baby & walked out that door & never looked back!!He killed himself 4 days later. I raised my daughter all by myself.
My point is-I was not much older than Jamiee- but I knew there would be a day when he would start abusing our daughter.I was not going to give him that chance.I was thinking at the time-You can do all you want to me-but NO ONE is ever going to lay a hand on my daughter.I knew I had to get her out of that enviroment.I knew her protection was up to me.Being young & naive had nothing to do with me getting out.It had everything to do with protecting my baby and doing what was right FOR HER!!
Jaimee had a whole lot more resources than I did.
It weird I picked today to tell this story as it my daughter's 24 birthday-The road to today has been long & hard..but we are happy & more importantly alive!!
I hope they do get the ORG going on the rez to help all women who are in DV situations.
Happy Birthday Angela-I love you!!!

I would just like to add-that I realize there are women out there who can not get out-it is a very very scary thing to do!!!
But again-I was just speaking of this case.

 

[katydid23]

Before I throw stones and insults to anyone, I need evidence. Evidence that there was (or wasn't) spousal abuse as well. Evidence that shows me whether she was recovering from her addictions or still deep within substance abuse. I'm not about to shoot someone in the moral-eye without all elements.

Remember the recent case of that dear old man who was murdered next to the twins he cared so much about? MANY in WS were quick to throw the book of insults at him... to later have to eat crow (and their words).

I choose to wait for more information before 'hanging' the mother.

I am only going by her OWN WORDS. And I don't care if she was still on drugs or not, because that is not an excuse for letting an abuser babysit your child.

Look at what she has already said in her own words. She described a few incidents to the FBI which paint the picture pretty clearly.

And when she herself was on with NG, she took the abusers side, and included herself in the 'training' program. She never said ' Oh I was too afraid to run away.' She said " He loved ME and WE were training Carnel to be a man.'

She admitted that she saw with her own eyes, her child being lifted up by his neck and dropped to the ground. She saw him with a puffed up and cut lip after he was punched by AB. And she still left her son in his care at night.

I don't think it is 'throwing stones', to question her behavior here. I think it is normal to criticize that kind of reaction of a mother upon seeing her child being abused. Too many innocent children are being killed by boyfriends these days. JMO

 

[Gardenlady]

I was not going to tell my story on here as I don't like a lot of personal stuff on the computer-but I am sitting here reading things about DV & its effects on young women.I am speaking to this case only-Jaimee & her age!
I was 21 when I met my husband
22 when I married him
23 when I had my daughter
25 when I became a widow
I was so naive at 22 that I had not a clue what my role as a wife should be & even more clueless as a mother.(Dysf family life)
He was fine when we dated-the minute we got married-I became his possession & obsession.The abuse started immed & lasted 3 long yrs.He tried killing me 3x-his constant need for attention was taken away when our daughter was born.The abuse got worse-One day he was yelling at our daughter so very loud-I was terrified b/c I knew he was seconds away from hitting her.I jump in front of her & calmed him down.
He worked 2nd at the time-He went to work and so did I!! I pack a bag & with no job-no money-no family & no where to go-I pick up my baby & walked out that door & never looked back!!He killed himself 4 days later. I raised my daughter all by myself.
My point is-I was not much older than Jamiee- but I knew there would be a day when he would start abusing our daughter.I was not going to give him that chance.I was thinking at the time-You can do all you want to me-but NO ONE is ever going to lay a hand on my daughter.I knew I had to get her out of that enviroment.I knew her protection was up to me.Being young & naive had nothing to do with me getting out.It had everything to do with protecting my baby and doing what was right FOR HER!!
Jaimee had a whole lot more resources than I did.
It weird I picked today to tell this story as it my daughter's 24 birthday-The road to today has been long & hard..but we are happy & more importantly alive!!
I hope they do get the ORG going on the rez to help all women who are in DV situations.
Happy Birthday Angela-I love you!!!

Syra, I think that all anyone would ask is that folks realize that for every woman who, like you, is able to leave, there are others who, for whatever reason, cannot. Maybe they are weaker? Maybe they are just wired differently, maybe their backgrounds are worse, maybe psychologically they have other things going on? Maybe they are threatened with violence against themself or a child or otherloved one if they leave? I dont know, But whatever reason it is, not everyone is made equally in the sense that they are able to get out like you were. Like I was eventually. The women who don't or can't shouldn't be looked down on - they need to be extended a hand.

I think that's all anyone would like to see. A little benefit of the doubt and a little mercy. No, we do not know for sure that JC was abused, or had PPD, or anything else. But as of now she is not charged, so she is a victim, so it seems to me that it is okay to explore reasons why her situation, and Carnel's murder, happened. And in exploring, that we give her the benefit of the doubt until there is a reason to do otherwise.

That said, you are an amazing woman to do what you did. Your daughter is lucky to have you, and I'm glad you were able to get safe!

 

[Jacie Estes]

Tribe moves to curtail abuse
topic posted Sat, March 17, 2007

Cultural destruction and alcohol abuse are among the factors that
have led to high rates of domestic violence and abuse in Native
families, according to experts. Noriega said the Tribe's program uses
a Native-specific, traditional approach to deal with victims and
perpetrators of violence and abuse.

It also uses a very modern case-management approach to make sure that
victims of violence get the help they need.

Noriega said that by the time many victims reach out for help, or
show up at a shelter, they've already sustained long periods of
abuse, have few resources, and need a great deal of help.

http://nappaw.tribe.net/thread/e94f24f6-2a3a-43b8-a8c5-b53d148d9b52

 

[SyraKelly]

I just want to make it clear that I don't fault anyone for not being able to get out.I know its hard for a lot of women to make that move and its very very scary-I am just saying-She saw what was happening to her son & had the resources to get out-but chose not to do something to help her son.I will always extend my hand to anyone in a DV situation.I feel for all the women who can not get out & wish there was a way to help all of them..

 

[Gardenlady]

The point is that some people were saying she was 'trapped' by this monster because she was a single mom raising her child alone.

And my point, which I think is valid, is that she received casino bonuses, which would assure that she could always feed and clothe her child. Not all single mothers have that situation.

She was in her own hometown, surrounded by well meaning family and friends, many who had warned her about this felon. So she had plenty of avenues of escape if need be. And she had the money she would need if she wanted to move away.

So imo, those bonuses were important part of the story. And who says that SHE was being abused. I don't see any evidence of that at all.

One can have money and still be trapped - trapped by mindset (ingrained by societal, familial, or cultural factors), trapped by manipulation of the abuser. Again, money doesn't guarantee a "safe out". Otherwise we would never hear cases of abuse in wealthy families, but we do.

 

[Soulmagent]

"Maybe KC should make a list of the abused and battered woman"

Seriously WTH..

CONFIDENTIALITY!?!?

I thought she meant she knew of women quietly and sitting back waiting for rescue.

 

[katydid23]

One can have money and still be trapped - trapped by mindset (ingrained by societal, familial, or cultural factors), trapped by manipulation of the abuser. Again, money doesn't guarantee a "safe out". Otherwise we would never hear cases of abuse in wealthy families, but we do.

She could have protected her son if she wanted to.

 

[ToosieJoie33]

I looked at KC page and it have privacy settings.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I thought she meant she knew of women quietly and sitting back waiting for rescue.

There are some women and men, as well, who are so afraid to leave that escaping isn't even something they conceive of doing. take care, Jacie

 

[Knox]

So many posters in this thread that I admire and respect. I hate that we are so divided, so is there a way we can respectfully agree to disagree and move forward guys?

 

[Knox]

I looked at KC page and it have privacy settings.

No TJ, it is public.