MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

[1&2&3]

As is being mentioned above with the different allegations of the step-father, it concerns me that Jennifer is such a staunch supporter of her dad.

Was she the "favorite" twin, quite, easy going, happy child. She saw and knows that her sister was the argumentative, talk back, hard to get along with child who was going to do things her way. Julia and Jim may have really clashed due to this. My belief, you get one quiet child and one busy child. Was Jennifer the quiet child and Julia the busy child? Or is there more to it?

 

[lovinlife83]

http://t.monroenews.com/news/2015/m...ove-daughter-turnquist-home/?templates=tablet

This is a troubling article. DHS tried to have the 12 yr. old daughter removed from the home. She did spend the weekend with other relatives.

Previous allegations of abuse (physical) by stepfather were apparently investigated in 2000, but went nowhere. Jennifer says they did not happen, "she would remember something like that"

What! Something is fishy, people don't just make these things up typically. From the same article...

The reasons for citing intervention by DHS included accusations of abuse made in 2000 when Julia and her twin sister, Jennifer, were 11. Those allegations accused Mr. Turnquist of abusing the girls by taping their mouths shut and tearing off the tape; striking them with a wooden spoon and pan, and keeping food from them as a form of punishment, according to the documents.

#The accusations were investigated by Child Protective Services and no further action was taken. Mr. Stablein said no action was taken because they were false allegations and the case was dropped due to a lack of evidence.

 

[rosesfromangels]

What! Something is fishy, people don't just make these things up typically. From the same article...

The reasons for citing intervention by DHS included accusations of abuse made in 2000 when Julia and her twin sister, Jennifer, were 11. Those allegations accused Mr. Turnquist of abusing the girls by taping their mouths shut and tearing off the tape; striking them with a wooden spoon and pan, and keeping food from them as a form of punishment, according to the documents.

#The accusations were investigated by Child Protective Services and no further action was taken. Mr. Stablein said no action was taken because they were false allegations and the case was dropped due to a lack of evidence.

From the armchair quarterback position, it certainly seems as if Jennifer is having some denial issues and is in need of some counseling. That is said with empathy and respect. But I'm sorry to have to ask, where in the heck was Mom in all this?!?! If some man (lover boy or not), was taping my kids mouths and hitting them with wooden spoons, I can assure you where that spoon would have ended up! I don't believe in physical correction with kids anyway, but absolutely not by step parents. Any correction (and hopefully not physical) should be administered by the parent.
MOO.

The more that unravels about this case, the more we are seeing a picture of a very dysfunctional family, and what appears to have been a very tragic outcome. I think there is so much more to follow on this case, as well as the associated Bruck case. So very very sad.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

As is being mentioned above with the different allegations of the step-father, it concerns me that Jennifer is such a staunch supporter of her dad.

Was she the "favorite" twin, quite, easy going, happy child. She saw and knows that her sister was the argumentative, talk back, hard to get along with child who was going to do things her way. Julia and Jim may have really clashed due to this. My belief, you get one quiet child and one busy child. Was Jennifer the quiet child and Julia the busy child? Or is there more to it?

Julia was apparently wise enough to recognize that something was "rotten in Denmark" and tried to escape the situation by living with her grandmother before she moved into her apartment in Ypsilanti. Sadly, I'm beginning to think that Julia paid the ultimate price for being smart and getting herself out of the dysfunctional home situation :cursing:

 

[Spellbound]

I suspect we have heard only the tip of the iceberg. Every new detail just adds up to make me feel this is going to get even uglier. I am now leaning toward a connection between our two girls (Julia and Chelsea), where up to this point I was pretty adamant there was none. The big mystery, for me though, is how is that connection going to be made? Will we be even more shocked?

Mimommy, does your knowledge of the family come from knowing and speaking to all of them, or only the stepfather? (You may have already said, but I cannot get the search feature to find it) Did you share personal info often, or only "in passing"? I guess what I am asking is how well do you feel you knew him? I know I have had many co-workers, but only know personal details of a few. I could never make much of a judgment on most of them. Thanks, if you are able.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

As is being mentioned above with the different allegations of the step-father, it concerns me that Jennifer is such a staunch supporter of her dad.

Was she the "favorite" twin, quite, easy going, happy child. She saw and knows that her sister was the argumentative, talk back, hard to get along with child who was going to do things her way. Julia and Jim may have really clashed due to this. My belief, you get one quiet child and one busy child. Was Jennifer the quiet child and Julia the busy child? Or is there more to it?

IMO, the writing is on the wall here. There is/was "something" going on in the Niswender/Turnquist household that Jennifer didn't know about or doesn't want to admit. Denial? Fear? Makes me want to know how Jennifer would describe her relationship with James Turnquist.

 

[FindHG]

IMO, the writing is on the wall here. There is/was "something" going on in the Niswender/Turnquist household that Jennifer didn't know about or doesn't want to admit. Denial? Fear? Makes me want to know how Jennifer would describe her relationship with James Turnquist.

My throat just tightens reading this. I feel such regret and sorrow right now for some reason, the people touched by this, as mentioned up thread, must be in the depths. Thank you for the difficult information WSers.

His hearing is when? Where was he what did he do before he ran into Julia's family?

 

[tarabull]

The hearing is March 12, 8:30 AM

 

[bessie]

Like the rest of you, I get the impression Julia's death was a tragedy borne from secret wounds which were allowed to fester. Whether that's true remains to be seen, but I can't get past the fact that JN's murder was a "soft kill" -- partially clothed, suffocated, drowned, no blood, no brutal injuries -- the way that we so often see a parent kill a child.

JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Like the rest of you, I get the impression Julia's death was a tragedy borne from secret wounds which were allowed to fester. Whether that's true remains to be seen, but I can't get past the fact that JN's murder was a "soft kill" -- partially clothed, suffocated, drowned, no blood, no brutal injuries -- the way that we so often see a parent kill a child.

JMO

Don't mothers who murder their children tend to drown them? Susan Smith and Andrea Yates come to mind. What might the combination of "soft kill" (asphyxiation, suffocation) and "drowning" (placed in the tub with water) suggest?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree 100%. I think much more will be revealed, and I am speculating this was no small bust. He is probably a distributor of a much larger network, most likely with international ties. Maybe even human trafficking. SPECULATION ONLY.

I just had the most horrific thought, and it was so disturbing it made the hair on neck literally stand up...
If the POI is indeed a distributor, could he possibly have made a "snuff" film of Julia's demise? Dear Lord Jesus, what a horrible thought, but it came to mind. I so pray I am wrong.

 

[Spellbound]

I have been doing some searching for info on deaths from asphyxiation/drowning. Was not successful, but I did find some interesting info in this paper (Various Authors on Sudden Vagal Death) It is VERY LONG and detailed, and I have not carefully read the entire paper. But here are some of the most interesting aspects. Keep in mind this POI most likely knows a lot about techniques used in martial arts. All bolds are BBM.

Pg. 63:
fatal consequences of neck holds can be anticipated because of the physiological effects. Pre-existing natural disease increases likelihood of a fatal outcome, when a hold such as the carotid sleeper is applied correctly.

occasionally deaths occur very rapidly with no visible esophygeal signs. When a full post-mortem examination is carried out and there are no physical finding to account for death, one must consider whether death has resulted from cardiac arrest following vagal inhibition.

Pg. 810
choke holds can cause serious damage or death within seconds.

Pg. 821
a carotid sleeper hold does not constrict the airway and breathing continues. Significant less force is required to subdue a combative individual with this type of hold.

Despite the apparent harmless-ness of the carotid sleeper hold occasional deaths do occur as a result of application of this form of restraint.

Pg. 266
one may not need to necessarily occlude the airway or vasculature in order to cause death by neck compression.

after Pg. 310, Forensic Pathology by DiMaio and DiMaio
the terms chokehold and sleeper hold refer to two different types of holds whose purpose is to produce transient cerebral ischemia and unconsciousness. The arm and forearm are used to compress the neck.

With a chokehold, the individual usually continues to struggle. A sleeper hold is a symmetrical force applied to both sides of neck such that there is a compression of only the carotid arteries and jugular veins and not trachea.

If done properly (sleeper hold) loss of consciousness is only 1-25 seconds!!!

A properly applied carotid sleeper hold can also cause death. One would not expect any trauma to the structure of the neck.

 

[bessie]

Don't mothers who murder their children tend to drown them? Susan Smith and Andrea Yates come to mind. What might the combination of "soft kill" (asphyxiation, suffocation) and "drowning" (placed in the tub with water) suggest?

Parents, particularly with younger children, sometimes subdue the kids with drugs or suffocation, and then finish the deed by drowning them.

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/testimony-former-cobb-mom-planned-childrens-murder/nhpnT/

http://bnonews.com/urgent/6202/moth...ating-them-before-placing-car-into-the-river/

 

[hockeymom4]

I feel like everything points to him. But, there are a few things that bother me and make me think no. The partially clothed is one. When I first read of all of this I thought she was with someone and they tried sexual arousal and she passed out, the person thought she was dead and staged her in the tub. I had been thinking this for awhile and noticed her last post on Instagram was 50 Shades of Grey. Then today I was on another thread where someone was killed and they also had most recently posted about the movie. They suggested that a scene could have been acted out in some way. It certainly wouldn't be the first.

I was thinking back a month before her death she was texting with him and said I love you. But, that was 11/7. I just feel that he is involved but maybe he didn't do it.

 

[Spellbound]

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-some-causes-of-asphyxia.htm
Any type of constriction to the chest or abdominal area can cause suffocation. Severe pressure placed on the center of the body will make it very difficult for the person to breathe. Known as compressive asphyxia, this is a popular method of hand-to-hand combat used by the military.
======
drowning (definition) http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/drowning :

Etymology: ME, drounen asphyxiation caused by submersion in a liquid

death from suffocation resulting from aspiration of water or other substance or fluid. Drowning occurs because the liquid prevents breathing. The lungs of a drowned person may contain very little water or other liquid.

drowning, n asphyxiation because of submersion in a liquid.

dry-drowningasphyxiation, but with little or no inhalation of water as a result of persistent laryngospasm.


====
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11437820/Violent-Asphyxial-Deaths#scribd
Dry drowning may occur in two ways.

–(1). During first inhalation of water, there is severe laryngeal spasm which does not allow any water to enter the lungs though death occurs due toasphyxia due to laryngeal spasm in a circumstance of drowning. –

(2). When death occurs due to vagal inhibition of heart before complete submersion of the body under the water, as it happens in case of immersion syndrome.

 

[Spellbound]

I feel like everything points to him. But, there are a few things that bother me and make me think no. The partially clothed is one. When I first read of all of this I thought she was with someone and they tried sexual arousal and she passed out, the person thought she was dead and staged her in the tub. I had been thinking this for awhile and noticed her last post on Instagram was 50 Shades of Grey. Then today I was on another thread where someone was killed and they also had most recently posted about the movie. They suggested that a scene could have been acted out in some way. It certainly wouldn't be the first.

I was thinking back a month before her death she was texting with him and said I love you. But, that was 11/7. I just feel that he is involved but maybe he didn't do it.

BBM
Reports from LE up to this point only say he is a POI because they feel he has information that would lead to her suspect. You are possibly right.

As for being "partially dressed", she could have been ready for bed and wearing only a tee-shirt, nightgown, PJ's.... anything less than an ordinary day of being dressed.

 

[Spellbound]

How come he has no past? I recall in one of the interviews, a sibling of his spoke, during what was maybe the first year anniversary?

No past? Meaning? He was investigated for child abuse in 2000. Isn't that considered his past? Maybe there are, or there aren't other things. Can you add to what you are asking?

I don't recall ever seeing anyone other than the wife and other adult daughter speak from the family , until the recent grandmother's interview. Any chance you can find that one?

Past bedtime. I will check in tomorrow.

 

[Spellbound]

Thanks, FindHG. All good questions -- sorry if I was confused.

If her last name was Niswender she would not have been JT's relative. His last name is Turnquist. Mom may have gone back to her maiden name, or was never married to their father. Or it could be the bio dad's name.

ETA: Going by the obituary, I assume the bio parents never married.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=102100300

 

[FindHG]

Thanks, FindHG. All good questions -- sorry if I was confused.

If her last name was Niswender she would not have been JT's relative. His last name is Turnquist. Mom may have gone back to her maiden name, or was never married to their father. Or it could be the bio dad's name.

ETA: Going by the obituary, I assume the bio parents never married.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=102100300

Thanks Spellbound, it's hard to not read some of what's said about her not coming from a poisoned pen.

She was 'so social,' so often repeated, however true was more than that too, it seemed to me = somebody she befriended must be involved.

Look at this passage with a jaundiced eye based on what may have happened. I wonder who wrote the obit?

"Her selfless nature was evident in her actions. Julia always planned everything and was ready way before anyone else ever was. Planning was her passion in her job and academics. There was no doubt she would have achieved her goals and aspirations in her career and life."

[...]

"She loved her family and friends and lived her entire life for them."

[...]

She may have died for them depending on what eventually comes out.


Officials tried to remove daughter from Turnquist home
By Ray Kisonas, Monroe News Tue, Mar 10, 15, 7:04 pm

"I’m pretty sure I would have remembered if something like this happened to me.”


her poor sister is being coached by his lawyer

 

[black_squirrel]

Thanks, FindHG. All good questions -- sorry if I was confused.

If her last name was Niswender she would not have been JT's relative. His last name is Turnquist. Mom may have gone back to her maiden name, or was never married to their father. Or it could be the bio dad's name.

ETA: Going by the obituary, I assume the bio parents never married.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=102100300

I do not think that the biological parents were ever married. Julia & Jennifer were born on Jan. 25, 1989. Their mom was born in March 15, 1974. If I did my math right
this means that she was 14 (!) when she had them. I wonder if the biological father is listed on the birth certificate, and who it is. I wonder who raised J&J. Was it just their mother,
or was it the grandparents?